So pre mills actually think when they come down to this earth after a rapture, their stuff left behind will still be there?

[Davy]

Revelation Chapter 20: Is 1000 Years Literal? - Go Deeper Bible Study

Should the number 1000 in the Book of Revelation chapter 20 be interpreted literally? Revelation 20:1-6 Revelation 20:1-6 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of

godeeperbiblestudy.com

I don't care to read studies from other sources. I've already been through all that, and I found out long ago that STAYING WITH THE BIBLE AS WRITTEN is always the BEST choice on the road to understanding God's Truth.

 

[Scott Downey]

I don't care to read studies from other sources. I've already been through all that, and I found out long ago that STAYING WITH THE BIBLE AS WRITTEN is always the BEST choice on the road to understanding God's Truth.

Hmm, well the author of that I posted has also stayed with the truth in understanding the bible as written.

Psalm 84:10 “For a day in your courts is better
than a thousand elsewhere.”​

 

[Davy]

Hmm, well the author of that I posted has also stayed with the truth in understanding the bible as written.

Psalm 84:10 “For a day in your courts is better​

than a thousand elsewhere.”​

So you say, but if it disagrees with what I showed directly from Bible Scripture, then I have to doubt what that link says.

 

[Jericho]

If you are pre mill, then you will be living your life as you were down here during that 1000 years of time, but with all the modern technologies developed since you died. That is what they believe. Especially so for the most recent saints who are raptured, they would be familiar with all the world had at that time they were caught up in the air.

I'm pre mill, and I don't think it will be that way at all. We believe Christ will be ruling and it will literally be a new age. It will be as different to life now as it was to life in Noah's day before the flood. That is to say, very different. In fact, it gives some very clear distinctions.

Christ beating people with rebar rods, maybe His people will also is what they are saying.

I think I know the verse you're referring to and you're taking it way too literal. It implies Christ will discipline the nations when they act out of line by withholding rain IIRC.

 

[Davy]

I'm pre mill, and I don't think it will be that way at all. We believe Christ will be ruling and it will literally be a new age. It will be as different to life now as it was to life in Noah's day before the flood. That is to say, very different. In fact, it gives some very clear distinctions.



I think I know the verse you're referring to and you're taking it way too literal. It implies Christ will discipline the nations when they act out of line by withholding rain IIRC.

Yes, and the Zechariah 14 chapter reveals the unsaved nations during Christ's future reign will be made to come up to Jerusalem from year to year to worship The KING (Jesus), and keep the Feast of Tabernacles. And those nations which refuse to come up, there will be no rain upon their lands.

 

[Scott Downey]

I'm pre mill, and I don't think it will be that way at all. We believe Christ will be ruling and it will literally be a new age. It will be as different to life now as it was to life in Noah's day before the flood. That is to say, very different. In fact, it gives some very clear distinctions.



I think I know the verse you're referring to and you're taking it way too literal. It implies Christ will discipline the nations when they act out of line by withholding rain IIRC.

Simply change your mind about premill and offering bloody animal sacrifices for sin again in Ezekiel's temple. The foundation of pre mill is also found in JW and other sects. So you are looking for an earthly kingdom then wherein dwells evil still.

 

[Davy]

Simply change your mind about premill and offering bloody animal sacrifices for sin again in Ezekiel's temple. The foundation of pre mill is also found in JW and other sects. So you are looking for an earthly kingdom then wherein dwells evil still.

You mean JW got that Premill idea from the FIRST CENTURY CHURCH FATHERS who followed Christ and His Apostles, since the Premill position is what they believed!

Brethren in Christ:
The Amill position, which Scott is pushing here, did not begin until the 2nd century A.D., which was also when false doctrines of Gnosticism began creeping in to the 2nd century Christian Church.

 

[Scott Downey]

And about discipling people with an Iron rod, that is what Pre Mill believes. As in crushing force to conform evil people to act good. Well that is the OC way of thinking. Pre Mill is very much focused on the OC ideas about the Land of Israel and them ruling over still wicked nations.

 

[Davy]

And about discipling people with an Iron rod, that is what Pre Mill believes. As in crushing force to conform evil people to act good. Well that is the OC way of thinking. Pre Mill is very much focused on the OC ideas about the Land of Israel and them ruling over still wicked nations.

So far by your own falseness, you don't seem far away from that rod of iron by Christ Jesus. Keep going against His Word like you have been doing, and you might find yourself in danger.

 

[Scott Downey]

Whereas God says, Last chapter of Revelation
Rev 22
9 Then he said to me, “See that you do not do that. [d]For I am your fellow servant, and of your brethren the prophets, and of those who keep the words of this book. Worship God.” 10 And he said to me, “Do not seal the words of the prophecy of this book, for the time is at hand.

11 He who is unjust, let him be unjust still; he who is filthy, let him be filthy still; he who is righteous, let him [e]be righteous still; he who is holy, let him be holy still.”

Christ, God, the kingdom of God does not force good behavior on evil people, yet that is what Pre Mill doctrines teach.
I know many people have closed their minds as they wont believe anything else from what they 'know' to be true. As do all those who adhere to false ideas about scripture.

The rod of iron when wielded by Christ is not for forcing good behavior, it is meant for killing the wicked.

 

[Scott Downey]

Psalm 2 is for killing those who are wicked and evil, those who rebel against the Son and the Father, those who refuse His rule over them.

Why do the [a]nations [b]rage,
And the people plot a [c]vain thing?
2 The kings of the earth set themselves,
And the rulers take counsel together,
Against the Lord and against His Anointed,[d] saying,
3 “Let us break Their bonds in pieces
And cast away Their cords from us.”
4 He who sits in the heavens shall laugh;
The Lord shall hold them in derision.
5 Then He shall speak to them in His wrath,
And distress them in His deep displeasure:
6 “Yet I have [e]set My King
[f]On My holy hill of Zion.”
7 “I will declare the [g]decree:
The Lord has said to Me,
‘You are My Son,
Today I have begotten You.
8 Ask of Me, and I will give You
The nations for Your inheritance,
And the ends of the earth for Your possession.

9 You shall [h]break them with a rod of iron;
You shall dash them to pieces like a potter’s vessel.’ ”
10 Now therefore, be wise, O kings;
Be instructed, you judges of the earth.
11 Serve the Lord with fear,
And rejoice with trembling.
12 [i]Kiss the Son, lest [j]He be angry,
And you perish in the way,
When His wrath is kindled but a little.
Blessed are all those who put their trust in Him.

 

[Scott Downey]

Where else do we read of such treatment? In the Parable of the Minas, when the Master returns after receiving for Himself a Kingdom

What does the Master do at His returning? You have to read to find out.

The Parable of the Minas​

11 Now as they heard these things, He spoke another parable, because He was near Jerusalem and because they thought the kingdom of God would appear immediately. 12 Therefore He said: “A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom and to return. 13 So he called ten of his servants, delivered to them ten [e]minas, and said to them, ‘Do business till I come.’ 14 But his citizens hated him, and sent a delegation after him, saying, ‘We will not have this man to reign over us.’

15 “And so it was that when he returned, having received the kingdom, he then commanded these servants, to whom he had given the money, to be called to him, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading. 16 Then came the first, saying, ‘Master, your mina has earned ten minas.’ 17 And he said to him, ‘Well done, good servant; because you were faithful in a very little, have authority over ten cities.’ 18 And the second came, saying, ‘Master, your mina has earned five minas.’ 19 Likewise he said to him, ‘You also be over five cities.’

20 “Then another came, saying, ‘Master, here is your mina, which I have kept put away in a handkerchief. 21 For I feared you, because you are [f]an austere man. You collect what you did not deposit, and reap what you did not sow.’ 22 And he said to him, ‘Out of your own mouth I will judge you, you wicked servant. You knew that I was an austere man, collecting what I did not deposit and reaping what I did not sow. 23 Why then did you not put my money in the bank, that at my coming I might have collected it with interest?’

24 “And he said to those who stood by, ‘Take the mina from him, and give it to him who has ten minas.’ 25 (But they said to him, ‘Master, he has ten minas.’) 26 ‘For I say to you, that to everyone who has will be given; and from him who does not have, even what he has will be taken away from him.

27 But bring here those enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, and slay them before me.’ ”

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

yeah, an hour there means a short period of time.

Right. So, I wonder if @Davy agrees or if he is going to stick with his claim that all of the time periods in Revelation are literal and try to claim that Revelation 17:12 refers to a literal one hour (60 minutes)?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Psalm 2 is for killing those who are wicked and evil, those who rebel against the Son and the Father, those who refuse His rule over them.

Why do the [a]nations [b]rage,
And the people plot a [c]vain thing?
2 The kings of the earth set themselves,
And the rulers take counsel together,
Against the Lord and against His Anointed,[d] saying,
3 “Let us break Their bonds in pieces
And cast away Their cords from us.”
4 He who sits in the heavens shall laugh;
The Lord shall hold them in derision.
5 Then He shall speak to them in His wrath,
And distress them in His deep displeasure:
6 “Yet I have [e]set My King
[f]On My holy hill of Zion.”
7 “I will declare the [g]decree:
The Lord has said to Me,
‘You are My Son,
Today I have begotten You.
8 Ask of Me, and I will give You
The nations for Your inheritance,
And the ends of the earth for Your possession.

9 You shall [h]break them with a rod of iron;
You shall dash them to pieces like a potter’s vessel.’ ”
10 Now therefore, be wise, O kings;
Be instructed, you judges of the earth.
11 Serve the Lord with fear,
And rejoice with trembling.
12 [i]Kiss the Son, lest [j]He be angry,
And you perish in the way,
When His wrath is kindled but a little.
Blessed are all those who put their trust in Him.

Exactly. Premills completely ignore what the rod of iron is used for. It is used to break/destroy Christ's enemies.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

It's very easy to know that above is given as a metaphor, simply because it does not give a 'specific' number of thousand, which the following Scripture does...

Rev 20:4
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
KJV

LOL. So, does the reference to "a thousand hills" refer to a literal one thousand hills in Psalm 50:10 then?

Psalm 50:9 I have no need of a bull from your stall or of goats from your pens, 10 for every animal of the forest is mine, and the cattle on a thousand hills.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Where else do we read of such treatment? In the Parable of the Minas, when the Master returns after receiving for Himself a Kingdom

What does the Master do at His returning? You have to read to find out.

The Parable of the Minas​

11 Now as they heard these things, He spoke another parable, because He was near Jerusalem and because they thought the kingdom of God would appear immediately. 12 Therefore He said: “A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom and to return. 13 So he called ten of his servants, delivered to them ten [e]minas, and said to them, ‘Do business till I come.’ 14 But his citizens hated him, and sent a delegation after him, saying, ‘We will not have this man to reign over us.’

15 “And so it was that when he returned, having received the kingdom, he then commanded these servants, to whom he had given the money, to be called to him, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading. 16 Then came the first, saying, ‘Master, your mina has earned ten minas.’ 17 And he said to him, ‘Well done, good servant; because you were faithful in a very little, have authority over ten cities.’ 18 And the second came, saying, ‘Master, your mina has earned five minas.’ 19 Likewise he said to him, ‘You also be over five cities.’

20 “Then another came, saying, ‘Master, here is your mina, which I have kept put away in a handkerchief. 21 For I feared you, because you are [f]an austere man. You collect what you did not deposit, and reap what you did not sow.’ 22 And he said to him, ‘Out of your own mouth I will judge you, you wicked servant. You knew that I was an austere man, collecting what I did not deposit and reaping what I did not sow. 23 Why then did you not put my money in the bank, that at my coming I might have collected it with interest?’

24 “And he said to those who stood by, ‘Take the mina from him, and give it to him who has ten minas.’ 25 (But they said to him, ‘Master, he has ten minas.’) 26 ‘For I say to you, that to everyone who has will be given; and from him who does not have, even what he has will be taken away from him.

27 But bring here those enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, and slay them before me.’ ”

Good point. Here's yet another passage that Premills twist or ignore. The ones who they think Jesus will reign over when He comes again will instead be destroyed, as scripture repeatedly teaches, including in this parable you referenced.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Well, it takes functioning infrastructure for all those things of this world to be used.
Years ago talking with a Nasa scientist now involved with the space plane engines, goes to our church and he believes when Jesus comes back, he would get into cars and drive around during the millennial reign. I thought, how shocking he believes that. You would be shocked what Christians actually believe about these things. They believe it because they were taught it by church teachers whom they respect. I don't go to that church now but am still friendly with them. Such beliefs are closely held to the heart.

So I talk with one of the younger church leaders, a pastor who is close friends with him, and he is the source. And now he is the pastor of that church. One of his beliefs taught to many is Christ actually cannot return until the world is entirely converted, meaning when Christ returns there is no sudden destruction, and everyone's a believer. He said it was too scary to think otherwise, that Christ would destroy this world with all it's wonderful buildings and technology.

Well having been on this forum for several years, Nothing shocks me anymore about what fellow followers of Jesus believes.

What will the future look likes is unsure. whether people will drive cars is irrelavent unless someone makes it a critical doctrine.

On your second paragraph, I am very familiar with that heresy. It is called dominion theology and many neo-evangelicals believe it. It sprang from Pat Roberston and others like him.

 

[grafted branch]

Where else do we read of such treatment? In the Parable of the Minas, when the Master returns after receiving for Himself a Kingdom

What does the Master do at His returning? You have to read to find out.

The Parable of the Minas​

11 Now as they heard these things, He spoke another parable, because He was near Jerusalem and because they thought the kingdom of God would appear immediately. 12 Therefore He said: “A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom and to return. 13 So he called ten of his servants, delivered to them ten [e]minas, and said to them, ‘Do business till I come.’ 14 But his citizens hated him, and sent a delegation after him, saying, ‘We will not have this man to reign over us.’

15 “And so it was that when he returned, having received the kingdom, he then commanded these servants, to whom he had given the money, to be called to him, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading. 16 Then came the first, saying, ‘Master, your mina has earned ten minas.’ 17 And he said to him, ‘Well done, good servant; because you were faithful in a very little, have authority over ten cities.’ 18 And the second came, saying, ‘Master, your mina has earned five minas.’ 19 Likewise he said to him, ‘You also be over five cities.’

20 “Then another came, saying, ‘Master, here is your mina, which I have kept put away in a handkerchief. 21 For I feared you, because you are [f]an austere man. You collect what you did not deposit, and reap what you did not sow.’ 22 And he said to him, ‘Out of your own mouth I will judge you, you wicked servant. You knew that I was an austere man, collecting what I did not deposit and reaping what I did not sow. 23 Why then did you not put my money in the bank, that at my coming I might have collected it with interest?’

24 “And he said to those who stood by, ‘Take the mina from him, and give it to him who has ten minas.’ 25 (But they said to him, ‘Master, he has ten minas.’) 26 ‘For I say to you, that to everyone who has will be given; and from him who does not have, even what he has will be taken away from him.

27 But bring here those enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, and slay them before me.’ ”

I don’t see how the parable of the minas fits with the Amil position.

In the parable of the minas there are ten servants, we know the fate of three of them. One gets ten cities, one gets five cities, and the other it isn’t clear but based on the what the other two were given, presumably that servant would’ve received a city if they were faithful and not wicked.

So out of ten servants total, at least fifteen cities were given out and reasonably at a bare minimum there were twenty three cities total for the ten servants. That’s 2.3 cities for every faith servant to have authority over.

The average size city in USA is somewhere between 10,000 and 50,000 people. Let’s be conservative and say it’s 10,000. Currently world wide there are approximately 2.4 billion self proclaimed Christians. The total world population is approximately 8.2 billion. That means there is currently approximately 1 Christian for every 3.4 non-Christians.

If the faithful servants each have authority over 2.3 cities of 10,000 people then that would mean for every 1 faith servant there are 23,000 unfaithful servants.

In the Amil NHNE, where are the cities that the faithful servants have authority over? The ratio of faithful servants to unfaithful servants doesn’t appear to be anywhere close to our current Christian vs non-Christian ratio. Are you thinking there will be about 1 faithful Christian for every 23,000 non-faithful Christians that make it into the NHNE?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I don’t see how the parable of the minas fits with the Amil position.

This is not surprising, of course, since you tend to look at everything from your Preterist, Postmil perspective.

In the parable of the minas there are ten servants, we know the fate of three of them. One gets ten cities, one gets five cities, and the other it isn’t clear but based on the what the other two were given, presumably that servant would’ve received a city if they were faithful and not wicked.

So out of ten servants total, at least fifteen cities were given out and reasonably at a bare minimum there were twenty three cities total for the ten servants. That’s 2.3 cities for every faith servant to have authority over.

The average size city in USA is somewhere between 10,000 and 50,000 people. Let’s be conservative and say it’s 10,000. Currently world wide there are approximately 2.4 billion self proclaimed Christians. The total world population is approximately 8.2 billion. That means there is currently approximately 1 Christian for every 3.4 non-Christians.

If the faithful servants each have authority over 2.3 cities of 10,000 people then that would mean for every 1 faith servant there are 23,000 unfaithful servants.

In the Amil NHNE, where are the cities that the faithful servants have authority over?

You seem to be forgetting one important thing here. It's a parable! Parables are not meant to be taken literally like this. Parables are made up stories which illustrate truth in reality. What do you think, that the ten virgins in Matthew 25:1-13 refer to ten literal virgins? Do you take all of Jesus's parables literally like this?

The ratio of faithful servants to unfaithful servants doesn’t appear to be anywhere close to our current Christian vs non-Christian ratio.

The basis you are using to come up with that ratio is ridiculous since Jesus was not talking about His servants inheriting authority over literal earthly cities.

 

[grafted branch]

The basis you are using to come up with that ratio is ridiculous since Jesus was not talking about His servants inheriting authority over literal earthly cities.

So what does the Amil position think the cities are referring to? What do the faithful servants have authority over in NHNE?