If you can find where Peter, Paul, and Mary used to live to make it possible for them to do what you have in mind for yourself...then I shall have an answer for this question of yours.
So pre mills actually think when they come down to this earth after a rapture, their stuff left behind will still be there?
- Thread starter Scott Downey
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I'm relatively new here, and people are already labeling me as belonging to the Premillennialist...and others labeling me as Amillenialist. I belong to none of these groups.
Truth7t7
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Jesus maintains a glorified eternal body of flesh and bone, that was able to enter a room with closed doors, and that could eat tangible earthly foods, and could vanish out of human sight, the righteous saved will be like Jesus in this eternal immortal body at his return in the New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem
1 John 3:2KJV
2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
John 20:19 & 26-27KJV
19 Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.
26 And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you.
27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.
Luke 24:30-31 & 36-43KJV
30 And it came to pass, as he sat at meat with them, he took bread, and blessed it, and brake, and gave to them.
31 And their eyes were opened, and they knew him; and he vanished out of their sight.
36 And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.
37 But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit.
38 And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts?
39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
40 And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet.
41 And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat?
42 And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb.
43 And he took it, and did eat before them.
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
Maybe some small sects do, but the vast majority of pre-trib, premill biblicists know we are Queen consort to King Jesus. the earth will be totally different and near Edenic.
But the humans that do survive the last 7 years of history (the tribulation) and are saved will enter into the millennial kingdom, repopulate the earth marry, and yes also bring sacrifices to the rebuilt temple.
All those (except for maybe cars) will all be done by the human survivors and their offspring until the Millennial Kingdom comes to an end.
Scott, we don't have the answers to everything.
I would say mainly focus on your relationship with God built on these principles - Love God, Believe God, Trust God.
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
Okay, we will! Thanks!
But, seriously, isn't it true that you believe all our stuff will be left on the earth after we are raptured and we would at least potentially be able to use it again when you come back to the earth? That seems to be the point Scott is making.
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
So, what happens to that stuff when Jesus comes then? I think the point is that you think it will still be here on the earth. But, it will go unused?
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
Right. Premills are not looking for the same thing that Abraham and the other Old Testament saints were looking for as they are looking for an earthly city and country instead of a heavenly city and country like they should be. Then there's this, too...
2 Peter 3:3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, 4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation....13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
According to Peter, we should be looking for new heavens and a new earth in fulfillment of the promise of Christ's second coming, but Premills are looking for an earthly millennial kingdom instead.
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
Oh, really? So, why do you think that the ten horns/kings will only receive power for literally one hour (60 minutes)? That's not very long at all.
Revelation 17:And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
But, what Premills should note about what happens in fulfillment of that passage Paul was referencing from Isaiah 25 is that the new heavens and new earth are ushered in at that time.
Isaiah 25:8 And he will destroy in this mountain the face of the covering cast over all people, and the vail that is spread over all nations. 8 He will swallow up death in victory; and the Lord God will wipe away tears from off all faces; and the rebuke of his people shall he take away from off all the earth: for the Lord hath spoken it. And it shall be said in that day, Lo, this is our God; we have waited for him, and he will save us: this is the Lord; we have waited for him, we will be glad and rejoice in his salvation.
Revelation 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. 2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. 4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
Why do Premills not acknowledge that Isaiah 25:8 will be fulfilled when the new heavens and new earth are ushered in when that is what John taught in Revelation 21? They instead think it will be fulfilled 1,000+ years before that.
Keraz
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It is plain from Revelation 20 to 21, that the New Jerusalem does not come until AFTER the Millennium.
Please address my post #20
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
Actually that's not clear at all.
About this city in Hebrews 12 says we have come to that city as a present reality right now.
And it is in heaven, and that fits with us reigning in Christ in heaven just as also says Ephesians 2
Hebrews 12
22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels, 23 to the [j]general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect, 24 to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel.
Ephesians 2
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,
Keraz
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Well, it takes functioning infrastructure for all those things of this world to be used.
Years ago talking with a Nasa scientist now involved with the space plane engines, goes to our church and he believes when Jesus comes back, he would get into cars and drive around during the millennial reign. I thought, how shocking he believes that. You would be shocked what Christians actually believe about these things. They believe it because they were taught it by church teachers whom they respect. I don't go to that church now but am still friendly with them. Such beliefs are closely held to the heart.
So I talk with one of the younger church leaders, a pastor who is close friends with him, and he is the source. And now he is the pastor of that church. One of his beliefs taught to many is Christ actually cannot return until the world is entirely converted, meaning when Christ returns there is no sudden destruction, and everyone's a believer. He said it was too scary to think otherwise, that Christ would destroy this world with all it's wonderful buildings and technology.
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An Eden like world is what the New Earth God will create for His people will be like. A place without evil.
There was no fixing the Old Covenant, God gave us His New Covenant. And there is no fixing this old creation, God gives us His new creation.
Even premills must admit that evil still has its place during the millennial reign. Giving this old world a chance at what things would have been like without the fall in Eden is an impossibly foolish thought. We will get Paradise back with the New Earth.
Revelation 2:7
“He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes I will give to eat from the tree of life, which is in the midst of the Paradise of God.” ’
Rev 22
And he showed me a [a]pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding from the throne of God and of the Lamb. 2 In the middle of its street, and on either side of the river, was the tree of life, which bore twelve fruits, each tree yielding its fruit every month. The leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. 3 And there shall be no more curse, but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it, and His servants shall serve Him. 4 They shall see His face, and His name shall be on their foreheads. 5 There shall be no night there: They need no lamp nor light of the sun, for the Lord God gives them light. And they shall reign forever and ever.
7 “Behold, I am coming quickly! Blessed is he who keeps the words of the prophecy of this book.”
8 Now I, John, [c]saw and heard these things. And when I heard and saw, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel who showed me these things.
9 Then he said to me, “See that you do not do that. [d]For I am your fellow servant, and of your brethren the prophets, and of those who keep the words of this book. Worship God.” 10 And he said to me, “Do not seal the words of the prophecy of this book, for the time is at hand. 11 He who is unjust, let him be unjust still; he who is filthy, let him be filthy still; he who is righteous, let him [e]be righteous still; he who is holy, let him be holy still.”
14 Blessed are those who [g]do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. 15 [h]But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.
That Christ puts v12 in here at the end of the book where we have the New Earth, tells us when Christ returns as the righteous judge, those who inherit the earth will be inheriting that NEW earth, not the old earth which remains corrupted with evil.
There was no fixing the Old Covenant, God gave us His New Covenant. And there is no fixing this old creation, God gives us His new creation.
Even premills must admit that evil still has its place during the millennial reign. Giving this old world a chance at what things would have been like without the fall in Eden is an impossibly foolish thought. We will get Paradise back with the New Earth.
Revelation 2:7
“He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes I will give to eat from the tree of life, which is in the midst of the Paradise of God.” ’
Rev 22
And he showed me a [a]pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding from the throne of God and of the Lamb. 2 In the middle of its street, and on either side of the river, was the tree of life, which bore twelve fruits, each tree yielding its fruit every month. The leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. 3 And there shall be no more curse, but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it, and His servants shall serve Him. 4 They shall see His face, and His name shall be on their foreheads. 5 There shall be no night there: They need no lamp nor light of the sun, for the Lord God gives them light. And they shall reign forever and ever.
The Time Is Near
6 Then he said to me, “These words are faithful and true.” And the Lord God of the [b]holy prophets sent His angel to show His servants the things which must shortly take place.7 “Behold, I am coming quickly! Blessed is he who keeps the words of the prophecy of this book.”
8 Now I, John, [c]saw and heard these things. And when I heard and saw, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel who showed me these things.
9 Then he said to me, “See that you do not do that. [d]For I am your fellow servant, and of your brethren the prophets, and of those who keep the words of this book. Worship God.” 10 And he said to me, “Do not seal the words of the prophecy of this book, for the time is at hand. 11 He who is unjust, let him be unjust still; he who is filthy, let him be filthy still; he who is righteous, let him [e]be righteous still; he who is holy, let him be holy still.”
Jesus Testifies to the Churches
12 “And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the [f]Beginning and the End, the First and the Last.”14 Blessed are those who [g]do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. 15 [h]But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.
That Christ puts v12 in here at the end of the book where we have the New Earth, tells us when Christ returns as the righteous judge, those who inherit the earth will be inheriting that NEW earth, not the old earth which remains corrupted with evil.
Davy
Well-Known Member
It's very easy to know that above is given as a metaphor, simply because it does not give a 'specific' number of thousand, which the following Scripture does...
Rev 20:4
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
KJV
And further, when the Scripture says A thousand years expired, that ain't no metaphor...
Rev 20:7
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
KJV
So maybe English isn't your birth language, I don't know. Yet the Rev.20 translation is accurate, and is pointing to a LITERAL period of "a thousand years", and NOT a metaphor like the Rev.5:11 verse you quoted.
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Revelation Chapter 20: Is 1000 Years Literal? - Go Deeper Bible Study
Should the number 1000 in the Book of Revelation chapter 20 be interpreted literally? Revelation 20:1-6 Revelation 20:1-6 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of
godeeperbiblestudy.com