Name the ways it could have handled it without bombing primarily civilians?
They sure are killing thousands of children and babies and young people. What would you like to call it, if not wholesale? Sparingly?
Since more children and people have been killed by Israel than in the terrorist attack, should they stop?
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BeyondET
Well-Known Member
Unless there is a way to punish the actual terrorists in Palestine then forget it.
Chapter and verse? I do assume that the survivors of the coming holocaust in Israel will be in Israel when they finally accept Jesus in the very end. That does not mean God brought them there. He brings them there only after they are saved
You are wrong about that. The salvation is shown in Zechariah 12, this is the beginning of the last Day, the Day of the Lord. They are in the land at this time unsaved, and they get saved by divine decree that they receive that grace from God.
7 “The Lord will save the tents of Judah first, so that the glory of the house of David and the glory of the inhabitants of Jerusalem shall not become greater than that of Judah. 8 In that day the Lord will defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem;
8 In that day the Lord will defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; the one who is feeble among them in that day shall be like David, and the house of David shall be like God, like the Angel of the Lord before them. 9 It shall be in that day that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.
10 “And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on Me whom they pierced. Yes, they will mourn for Him as one mourns for his only son, and grieve for Him as one grieves for a firstborn.
Then Zechariah 13 immediately following on, says also it is in that Day
3 “In that day a fountain shall be opened for the house of David and for the inhabitants of Jerusalem, for sin and for uncleanness.
BeyondET
Well-Known Member
Zechariah 13 here describes the jews in the land being saved by Christ as the immediate proceeding verses to this show Christ is the Great Shepherd Savior.
8 And it shall come to pass in all the land,”
Says the Lord,
“That two-thirds in it shall be cut off and die,
But one-third shall be left in it:
9 I will bring the one-third through the fire,
Will refine them as silver is refined,
And test them as gold is tested.
They will call on My name,
And I will answer them.
I will say, ‘This is My people’;
And each one will say, ‘The Lord is my God.’ ”
8 And it shall come to pass in all the land,”
Says the Lord,
“That two-thirds in it shall be cut off and die,
But one-third shall be left in it:
9 I will bring the one-third through the fire,
Will refine them as silver is refined,
And test them as gold is tested.
They will call on My name,
And I will answer them.
I will say, ‘This is My people’;
And each one will say, ‘The Lord is my God.’ ”
Nothing remotely similar to your claim. All are saved only one way no exceptions. Jesus is the way.
Zechariah 12:10
And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.
The day of the Lord is a period of time that includes many things and lasts well over a thousand years. In that time, specifically around the end of the tribulation Israel (although 2/3 will have already been killed before this) will finally believe in Jesus. Then He will fight for them
Zechariah 12:8
In that day shall the Lord defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem..
Not now. Now they are enemies of God until they are saved like anyone else in the world.
Romans 5:10
For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
No, unless they can find a way to get the actual enemies and not blast children to kingdom come they can forget it. I think it was in this thread where some alternatives were looked at previously?
Bingo, when Jesus returns after the tribulation or close to that time. Not today
I am thinking you are actually demonically insane. Who said there was salvation without Christ? The scriptures are clear that I posted they are referring to Christ, the one that they pierced. You are lead astray from the truth in the prophetic scriptures, God would not do that, but a demon would promote doctrines of demons into your soul
So you are claiming what exactly? That Israel will be saved some other time than in the end when only a third of them are left alive near the end of the tribulation? Or that they are now? Or..? Grab some sanity and clarity and try to respond without demonic accusations. Tks
BeyondET
Well-Known Member
I don't know why you think I would disagree that Hamas should go from what I wrote. Of course Hamas should go; they're horrible. But as I did say, you cannot identify Hamas with the Palestinian people in general.
People should try to put extreme views aside and think clearly about what is just given the history of this ongoing conflict and the massacre that ignited this particular rash of violence and destruction.
Pace the OP, what constitutes proportionality given the history of these two groups and the massacre? First and foremost: What's the proportional, just response given the massacre? I would say a well-reasond view looks something like this:
Proportionality is a complex matter, and I can’t set out the right view of what it involves here. But one rough and ready test that typically holds true is that the use of military force is proportionate only if the harms inflicted on non-liable people—innocent Palestinian civilians in this case—are significantly smaller than future harms prevented. The harms that are caused, and that weigh against the use of defensive force, include those that result from escalation. Some harms inflicted during the conflict will be the responsibility of those in conflict with Israel, including Hamas; but some harms inflicted by Hamas that result from the Israeli response will also be the responsibility of the Israeli government. The same thing is true for Hamas—the predictably violent response of the Israeli government is not only the responsibility of the Israeli government, but also the responsibility of Hamas.
Proportionality and Responsibility in the Israel-Hamas Conflict (guest post) - Daily Nous
What do the "moral constraints that apply to defensive force" imply in a situation as complicated as the conflict between Israel and Hamas? In the following guest post, Victor Tadros, professor of criminal law and legal theory at the University of Warwick, discusses the complexity of...dailynous.com
Look at the numbers of Palestinian civilians that have died thus far compared to that of the initial massacre. Now, at this point, it's like shooting fish in a barrel. Or, the displacement of a million or so people to try and weed out Hamas will surely lead to the suffering and death of innocents that by far exceeds the initial attack on innocents. There has to be a better way than what we are seeing. It's not just.
Palestinians are taught to hate from their first day in school. Why is it that Egypt, Jordan and Saudi Arabia want no part of them? The gates are closed into Egypt .....If Palestine wanted peace, they would vote out Hamas and the other group beside them. I wonder how many innocent people have been killed y way of rocket paunches for years into Israel. Palestine invited this war ....now fight it using the sticks and stones they can carry ....
Thousands of bombings a day in a heavily populated area along with medical, water and food and power shortages is hardly targeting terrorists.
Unlike Israelis schools? Do Israeli schools suggest freeing the virtual prison of Gaza and loving the people there?
Says who? Maybe they wanted someone, anyone, to represent them and set them free etc? I don't recall they degree of terrorism in say, 1945 in the area? Could there be something causing it since? What might that be? Could being forced from their lands and caged like rats and deprived and limited in work and travel have anything to do with it? Could that be addressed?
Right, so address the problems don't mass murder folks.
Behold
Well-Known Member
@dad
Your false narrative is exactly what Palestinians preach as their gospel of fake news, and utter lies.
Let me show you something Reader....
GAZA, was under the control of Israel....They had it....30 yrs ago.. and they GAVE IT AWAY, to the Arabs. (Palestinians).
"Here you go, its yours, we are all leaving".......and the Jews left. The JEWS LEFT, and the Arabs had it all... ALL of it.
What did the Palestinians do next?
A.) These Gaza Palestinians, elected HAMAS as their Government and started bombing Israel for the next 18+ yrs.
They betrayed the GifT, for "allah".
Thats what they did with their GAZA..... that Israel gave them....and all the Jews left their homes.......to these Palestinians.
18 yrs later, they bomb Israel nearly every month......of every year. And, Israel still went back years ago and built these Arabs a wonderful underground sewage system.. Huge expense, Israel paid for... And what did these Palestinians do? They use them now as tunnels to take bombs in to Israel, or to try to kidnap Jews, who they then murder.
So, for 18 yrs, israel would fire back after the Palestinian ROCKETS came in...., and this killed some Palestinians, because Hamas puts their Rocket Launchers inside Hospitals, and School, and Mosque's, and stores, next to anything that is "highly populated", so that when Israel is bombed again, and they take a Jet and hunt for the rocket launcher and blow it up, its in a highly populated area.
Hamas does this on purpose so that they can cry about all those "innocent" Palestinians, who died.
And THEY, Hamas , are the reason.
So, for all these Years, Israel would fight with them, AFTER Hamas sent in "more rockets": and Hamas would stop, and so would Israel.
But last Oct 7, '2023...1500 Hamas soldiers came into small Israeli towns, and murdered them in their beds. Raped children in front of their parents, and then burned the children, or beheaded them. and the parents also.
They tortured them..."because they are Jews".
Grandparens, grandchildren.. they just slaughtered them, and enjoyed it, and filmed it.
These savage dogs, used wire to tie mothers and children together, then burned them alive, and filmed it on their I-Phones.
Some of these have been recovered and just yesterday, some Senators from the USA cam to Israel, OCT 22, and saw all this.. Saw the headless babies, saw the burned children.
So, ..Reader..
Israel is going to exact Justice against these devils, and the news media is going to forget to remind you that Hamas is standing behind the innocent palestinian people..., using them as BODY SHIELDS, when they BOTH DIE....... as that is how important the Palestinian people are to these Hamas devils.
We now see all these worldwide Palestinian celebrations, in many countries......they are jumping up and down and shouting and laughing.. so happy waving their Islamic Flags.... for the last 16 days and nights.
Why are they so happy happy happy ??? = these Palestinians who are filling the streets of the world ??
Because JEWS DIED, horribly, and they are dancing in their blood.
That is what you are seeing, in these "Mobs of Palestinians" on the streets of London, and Australia, and in the USA.
Be not deceived.
These "Hamas" and "Taliban" and "Isis" and "Hezbollah", will kill you, and all your family, and enjoy it.
Whereas.....A JEWISH Soldier, would try to protect you.
Like this one..
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BeyondET
Well-Known Member
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