Sin unto Death?

[Jun2u]

Haning a noose around another christian, gets done so ofetn what is it about the log in ones own eye, I really would love to see you noin smomners take it up yhan try to quit. I know many who have tried and failed miserably, its why its called "addiction" and is why it is so hard. My son and his grilfiend havew tried many ways, all fail, Its not a sin to smoke, it is a sin to condemn others.

I can see now why your son and his girlfriend have not stopped smoking because they are told smoking is not a sin!

As I've alluded to already "you can't serve two masters, either you will love one and hate the other."

To God Be The Glory

 

[mjrhealth]

I can see now why your son and his girlfriend have not stopped smoking because they are told smoking is not a sin!

As I've alluded to already "you can't serve two masters, either you will love one and hate the oth

Where in teh bible dpes it say smpoking is a sin, where in teh bible does it declare drinking is a sin, it does not becuase it is not, As I said, go hang a noose around another christian, because thats all that you do. Smomking is an aduction just like drugs, coke cofee and potato chips, it is no different. Yet here you have just added guilt to her guilt and where there is guilt there is no faith, People lo0ve heaping sin omn others, I gues the yhope that Jesus wont see there own. Look at them they are worse than me> No wonder christianity is such a big faiil, when christians condemn one another. That Log thing.

 

[bbyrd009]

"Sin" ends up being a convenient characterization, it seems, whereas everyone reaps what they sow. So that might be a better frame to perceive from?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Where in teh bible dpes it say smpoking is a sin, where in teh bible does it declare drinking is a sin, it does not becuase it is not, As I said, go hang a noose around another christian, because thats all that you do. Smomking is an aduction just like drugs, coke cofee and potato chips, it is no different. Yet here you have just added guilt to her guilt and where there is guilt there is no faith, People lo0ve heaping sin omn others, I gues the yhope that Jesus wont see there own. Look at them they are worse than me> No wonder christianity is such a big faiil, when christians condemn one another. That Log thing.

I would like to answer the question as to why smoking is a sin. First there is the obvious, what smoking does to the body by acting as a toxic poison. Second, smoking is selfish. Third, and most importantly, my smoking competes for God’s time making it an idol. Many things could fall under “an idol”. A job being one. An idol is anything that comes before God by which turning something ordinary and otherwise good for nourishment into something corruptible, an example here would be an obsession with food.
If you say your flesh does not sin, then either you are lying or you cannot see your sin.
My daughter is addicted to heroin. That has been a huge struggle for me: how can I advise my daughter to put down her addiction before she overdoses when I can not put down my addiction. I know, that is hideous. It looks like I could stop for my daughter’s sake. But my flesh is rotten and an abomination against God. And if, by the grace of God I able to come out from under this addiction, my flesh is still an abomination against God. I hate it. I hate my sin. I hate my flesh.
mjrhealth, If I may, as one parent to another parent, out of empathy, can I suggest you not downplay the ugliness of sin to your son and his girl friend. Praise God, that they are disgusted with their sin! Are they disgusted with their sin because it harms their health, or do they fully realize their sin is against God? If they realize their sin is against God, and they are desperate for it to change, then tell them about Jesus. If they are born again, then every time they attempt slip back into that mindset that their outward actions define who they are: remind them that “born again” means “born of God” and a child of God cannot sin. Remind them that the flesh betrays God and is dead, but the Spirit works fruit unto righteousness…peace, love, joy. And these fruits of righteousness are born of God and what Christ has done, not born out of the flesh. I think we error when we hear one of the brethren regressing back into trying to make the flesh obey the law, when it is not possible, the flesh failed! In return we encourage that person away from the saving grace of the cross and toward working to earn righteousness. A pig cannot return to their fifth, unless they were never washed and remain a pig. I was wrong. A dog cannot return to their vomit. UNLESS that dog was never washed clean by the blood of the cross and remains a dog.
We have to take off self-righteousness and put on the righteousness of Christ. There is no other way. If we encourage someone toward "trying to be pure or good" then we are advising them to trust in what the flesh can do, instead of what Christ has already done. When Paul said he beat his body into submission, it wasn’t to imply his flesh was beat into submission to never sin. If so, why did he cry “O wretched man”. We are all so susceptible to getting caught up again in that whole self-righteous thing and what the flesh can do. Paul's beating of his body into subject was a continual walk of bringing his sin under subjection to Christ, and not under self-righteousness. Self-righteousness is fornication. It is against God. Self-righteousness is against God's Son. It is against the blood of the cross. We were all once a prostitute, but now, we are reborn a virgin through the redemptive blood of Christ! It is not the sins of the flesh that are fornication(the flesh is dead), but that we reject Christ's righteousness in yet another attempt to put on our own, rather than remaining in Christ.
mjrhealth, I hope this helps in some way bring you comfort. God knows how much you love your son. It IS possible to love your son, yet hate your son's sin. I love my daughter...but I hate her sin. Same as God hates my sin. But God removed my sin (through His son) so now, PRAISE BE TO JESUS, God can fellowship with and love His daughter. The will of God is that my faith rest in HIS son. The only hope I can give my daughter is... Jesus! The only hope you can give your son is...Jesus!
(Romans 6: 23) "For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." If you only see "the wages of sin is death", then you have overlooked the greatest part of that verse. Now that we are of Christ's body...death has been swallowed!!!

 

[bbyrd009]

a child of God cannot sin.

i'd be interested to hear your justifications for this; i do not believe it, and i don't think you can back it up!

 

[VictoryinJesus]

i'd be interested to hear your justifications for this; i do not believe it, and i don't think you can back it up!

(1 John 3:9) "Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God."

 

[bbyrd009]

(1 John 3:9) "Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God."

yet "When we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us." So, which is it?

 

[bbyrd009]

i think "cannot," they way we understand that, is prolly better put "will not," maybe. http://biblehub.com/lexicon/1_john/3-9.htm
what we seem to witness much more of is Christians who cannot confess their sins imo.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

i think "cannot," they way we understand that, is prolly better put "will not," maybe. http://biblehub.com/lexicon/1_john/3-9.htm
what we seem to witness much more of is Christians who cannot confess their sins imo.

Our flesh sins. (Romans 8: 5-6) " For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace."

I am not saying that you should not hate your sin or that you should not confess your sins. I am saying my hope and faith for salvation rests in Christ's sacrifice. If I put my faith in Him, really put my faith in Him, then my spirit which has been born again (from above) can not sin. I will admit it is confusing. But I know I will never be good enough if I judge my salvation by what my flesh does. I have to believe and have faith in the cross.

​Exactly, if we can not see our sin and believe we are righteous by what sin we refrain from...then our righteousness is based off our own outward deeds and not in Christ. I may be poorly explaining it but "being righteous and made pure and sinless through the blood of the Lamb, once and for all" is not as foolish as saying..."I have taught my body(the flesh) to never openly sin."

 

[VictoryinJesus]

(Romans 7:13-25) "Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin."

​What is Paul saying?


(Romans 4:19-22)
"And being not weak in faith, he considered not his own body now dead, when he was about an hundred years old, neither yet the deadness of Sarah's womb:
He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;
And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.
And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness."

It is not about our performance. God will not accept our performance. Why would we enslave someone with the mindset that it is in any way based off of our performance? There is no more sacrifice God wants. Only faith in His Son and His righteousness. It is that simple. Isn't that the good news? Isn't that the peace? Isn't that the joy?
​

 

[Wormwood]

In my opinion, "sin unto death" is apostasy and false teaching. The entire book of 1 John is referring to those who have "gone out from among us." John is calling believers not to follow after these false teachers. Certainly we should pray for people who struggle with sins such as addiction. I think the point is that we are not to pray for those who have willingly rejected the truth about Jesus and have become "antichrists" spreading false ideas about the person and work of Jesus.

 

[bbyrd009]

(Romans 7:13-25) "Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin."

​What is Paul saying?


(Romans 4:19-22)
"And being not weak in faith, he considered not his own body now dead, when he was about an hundred years old, neither yet the deadness of Sarah's womb:
He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;
And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.
And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness."

It is not about our performance. God will not accept our performance. Why would we enslave someone with the mindset that it is in any way based off of our performance? There is no more sacrifice God wants. Only faith in His Son and His righteousness. It is that simple. Isn't that the good news? Isn't that the peace? Isn't that the joy?
​

yet there is a dichotomy that remains, in such passages as "Forgive, and you will be forgiven," etc, and many others, half of the NT, that are not accomplished by merely believing really hard, or denying Christ's command to pick up our crosses and follow. We even have a term for these people; "hypocrite." You will be judged for your deeds. Faith is active, whereas belief is not. It is all about your performance, if you are going to be judged for your works (Rev). One has to negate a lot of Scripture to hold that believing alone saves, imo. Regardless of how popular it is.

 

[Jun2u]

Haning a noose around another christian, gets done so ofetn what is it about the log in ones own eye, I really would love to see you noin smomners take it up yhan try to quit. I know many who have tried and failed miserably, its why its called "addiction" and is why it is so hard. My son and his grilfiend havew tried many ways, all fail, Its not a sin to smoke, it is a sin to condemn others.

.I think you have misjudged my intentions. I do not respond to posts in these forums and then turn around to make condemnations. We are all in the same situation as sinners, no one is better than the other, and therefore has no right to make any kind of condemnations. That belongs to God alone.

Smoking indeed is a sin. God, in His Word commanded, “Thou shalt not kill.” Does this mean we cannot kill animals for food consumption or did God mean...”not to murder?” Is smoking self murder?
Indeed it is! Even you have acknowledged that in post #11.

Likewise, drinking alcohol is a sin and I’ll let the Bible speak to that issue. 1Co 5:11 reads:

“But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.”


To God Be The Glory

 

[Jun2u]

In my opinion, "sin unto death" is apostasy and false teaching. The entire book of 1 John is referring to those who have "gone out from among us." John is calling believers not to follow after these false teachers. Certainly we should pray for people who struggle with sins such as addiction. I think the point is that we are not to pray for those who have willingly rejected the truth about Jesus and have become "antichrists" spreading false ideas about the person and work of Jesus.

The Bible declares “the wages of sin (singular) is death.” The word in parenthesis is mine. If it only takes one sin to come under the wrath of God then ultimately, in a sense, each and every sin is a “sin unto death” and a contradiction to what you’ve alluded to as apostasy and false teaching.

I could be wrong in my understanding of “sin unto death.” Can you elaborate?


To God Be The Glory

 

[mjrhealth]

.I think you have misjudged my intentions. I do not respond to posts in these forums and then turn around to make condemnations. We are all in the same situation as sinners, no one is better than the other, and therefore has no right to make any kind of condemnations. That belongs to God alone.

Smoking indeed is a sin. God, in His Word commanded, “Thou shalt not kill.” Does this mean we cannot kill animals for food consumption or did God mean...”not to murder?” Is smoking self murder?
Indeed it is! Even you have acknowledged that in post #11.

Likewise, drinking alcohol is a sin and I’ll let the Bible speak to that issue. 1Co 5:11 reads:

“But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.”


To God Be The Glory

So you have made smoking a sin based on your own assumptiions than insist all smokers abide by your reasosing an so therefore condemn them all, It is your sin as you made it your sin it is not there sin. As for alchohol, there is a big difference between drinking and being drunk, If our salvation was based on mens idea of sin ,like the pharisees we would condemn ourselves to death, where good at it.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

yet there is a dichotomy that remains, in such passages as "Forgive, and you will be forgiven," etc, and many others, half of the NT, that are not accomplished by merely believing really hard, or denying Christ's command to pick up our crosses and follow. We even have a term for these people; "hypocrite." You will be judged for your deeds. Faith is active, whereas belief is not. It is all about your performance, if you are going to be judged for your works (Rev). One has to negate a lot of Scripture to hold that believing alone saves, imo. Regardless of how popular it is.

You are right, faith is active. The first action of faith in Abraham was "he believed God", instead of the mountain of evidence that was shown in the physical. Does the active part of faith mean that the first action produced by my faith, is to strain to put down a sin that I am struggling with? Is faith immediately going from "faith in Christ" to what I can produce out of the flesh? To me, the real active part of faith, and the incredibly hard action, is believing the Lord's words that I am "washed" on His merit alone and not my own. That I am clean because I believe what Jesus said and that I am not saved by what I see. For me, faith is claiming and holding tight to the promise, even though my body betrays God over and over again and the enemy shouts "you are unworthy". Having faith that I am worthy because Jesus said it and His saving power is more powerful than my sin. Faith is believing that Christ has already finished the righteous part.The more I try to get away from sin, the more its control over me grows and the more the sin grows. There has to be a point where I ask: is it based on my worthiness...or Christ's worthiness. And that action is the hardest action of all. Ignoring the voice that condemns but instead hearing Christ's words. Abraham believed "God is truth" not "the physical is truth".

I wish I would have never posted about my addiction. I do not want to be a stumbling block for other Christians. I wanted help and guidance, and you all have helped. I do not want to condemn. I do not want to push others away from His Kingdom. I want to tell people about my saviour and welcome them in. I want to tell others Jesus is love and that He says you are worth it to Him, even when you don't see it manifest in the physical.

 

[bbyrd009]

.I think you have misjudged my intentions. I do not respond to posts in these forums and then turn around to make condemnations. We are all in the same situation as sinners, no one is better than the other, and therefore has no right to make any kind of condemnations. That belongs to God alone.

Smoking indeed is a sin. God, in His Word commanded, “Thou shalt not kill.” Does this mean we cannot kill animals for food consumption or did God mean...”not to murder?” Is smoking self murder?
Indeed it is! Even you have acknowledged that in post #11.

Likewise, drinking alcohol is a sin and I’ll let the Bible speak to that issue. 1Co 5:11 reads:

“But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.”


To God Be The Glory

as usual, the one side gets quoted, and the other ignored. You forgot to mention the passage where God instructs festival-goers to buy even distilled liquor, if that is what they want. And smoking is equally sinful, which is to say that if it is a sin for you, then don't do it, but presume to dictate to me at your peril. not mine. Lots of people smoke non-filtered store bought cigarettes into their 90s, lol, til they day they die, i guess.

Fwiw tobacco is not nearly as addictive as you have been programmed to believe, even if i might agree with you that most smokers are addicted, and should likely examine the habit. But this is not even debated among most smokers; i don't see anyone glorifying cigarettes much.

You do not know that smoking is a sin for anyone other than yourself, sorry.

 

[bbyrd009]

You are right, faith is active. The first action of faith in Abraham was "he believed God", instead of the mountain of evidence that was shown in the physical. Does the active part of faith mean that the first action produced by my faith, is to strain to put down a sin that I am struggling with? Is faith immediately going from "faith in Christ" to what I can produce out of the flesh? To me, the real active part of faith, and the incredibly hard action, is believing the Lord's words that I am "washed" on His merit alone and not my own. That I am clean because I believe what Jesus said and that I am not saved by what I see. For me, faith is claiming and holding tight to the promise, even though my body betrays God over and over again and the enemy shouts "you are unworthy". Having faith that I am worthy because Jesus said it and His saving power is more powerful than my sin. Faith is believing that Christ has already finished the righteous part.The more I try to get away from sin, the more its control over me grows and the more the sin grows. There has to be a point where I ask: is it based on my worthiness...or Christ's worthiness. And that action is the hardest action of all. Ignoring the voice that condemns but instead hearing Christ's words. Abraham believed "God is truth" not "the physical is truth".

I wish I would have never posted about my addiction. I do not want to be a stumbling block for other Christians. I wanted help and guidance, and you all have helped. I do not want to condemn. I do not want to push others away from His Kingdom. I want to tell people about my saviour and welcome them in. I want to tell others Jesus is love and that He says you are worth it to Him, even when you don't see it manifest in the physical.

i think it may be important to remember, in all that "Abraham was just such a shining light, all of the time," etc, that he also fathered a child upon Haggai, too. I have noticed multiple times newly minted seekers obsessing over something like smoking, encouraged to self-condemnation by the self-righteous of the religious world who are of course ever eager to assert their own superiority, and you should remember that it is satan (well, and BoL :lol) that is "the accuser." Apox on anyone else declaring your sin for you imo.

There is a Scriptural formula for this, that goes like this: have you sinned against someone? Who is complaining about your sin? What is their complaint? Does it affect them, or are they merely taking the opportunity to lord it over you, as people--particularly religious people, but really most people--are so quick to do? Because believe me, you will never run out of ersatz do-gooders who are quick to point out all of your shortcomings, ok. anyone who tells you that you are sinning, yet cannot produce a personal complaint against you, is deceived, alright? I forgive you, and you know why? Because you have had the courage to actually publically recognize a personal shortcoming, and to admit to it, iow you are not trying to whitewash over some obvious "sin," like the much more onerous one of pretending to know the mind of God, and borrow authority, or etc.

Personally i have learned to run from anyone insisting upon one side of the story, and ignoring the other, but you can trust that satan will always be recruiting them, and they are not going away. You are forgiven, while they may not be. Now should you maybe take steps to stop smoking, if it seems sinful to you? Surely. But over and above that i would recognize satan's--and the religious'--propensity for using the tiniest little thing against you, in order to bring you under condemnation, posturing as if they know something, when usually they do not.

Practically speaking, you might switch to tobacco, or Shermans, wherein trust me, you will have a withdrawal from the chemicals that your brand has in them, even as you are getting nicotine. I smoke almost the cheapest shag, labelled "pipe tobacco" even though it isn't--something about taxes, i guess--and i usually only light up when religious types come around, which is a couple times a day in my business. I know that sounds perverse, but i don't mean it that way, that is just how it plays out for me. They come seeking clarification on some point about counselling a 3rd party, usually, pulling me away from my work, affording me a 5 minute smoke break in the process.

Now i certainly wouldn't encourage a non-smoker to take up the habit, but have seen a couple people successfully get off of cigarettes this way. Also, there is Lobelia, which i guess fits the nicotine receptor, my sister quit that way. One thing i notice is that i am free of the anxiety that contemplating never smoking again might engender, especially when you first quit, although that really does not apply now either. By all means, if you can afford American Spirit go for it, but fwiw i spend like $10 a month on tobacco, and i find it a great trap for discovering the self-righteous now, mostly. Who unfortunately abound :)

 

[bbyrd009]

you want to tell people about Jesus, and imo that is great, ok. i don't think you are going to find anyone who has not heard of Jesus at this point, and i have found that manifesting Christ is better, personally, than proselytizing, which i don't think any of the Apostles ever did. But then, i am not buying that one can accept "Jesus" with their mouths and reject James, and be considered accepted, either, though i might be wrong.

We begin seeking God, for whatever reason, usually some proselytizer has made us cognizant of our fear of hell, so then we go to those deemed by the world to be knowledgeable about God, not realizing that we are running right into the arms of the "wolves" Paul assured us would "rush in" as soon as he left. Those people are blind, and are leading the blind, and that is why their congregations are melting away, see, their borders are shrinking, just as God said they should.

Ignore those people at all costs imo. They are calling to you from the grave, and you might notice that they are obsessed with sin and death, and cannot see that they are re-laying the foundation over and over, because of their error.

The only time i even hear the word "sin" now is here.

 

[bbyrd009]

see also that our leaders are a perfect mirror of ourselves. Really all of the responsibility lies with the market that arises, not the seller who comes to fill the market. Doesn't it?