Sheep and goats; benevolence and the kingdom - Sorting out Matthew 25:31-46

[St. SteVen]

Very intriguing chapter/passage.

At the judgment Jesus puts the sheep on his right and the goats on his left. - vs 33
The sheep are invited to take their inheritance because of their benevolence to the Body of Christ.
The goats are condemned because they didn't. And it ends with this.


Matthew 25:46 NIV
“Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”


Questions:
- Was it the benevolence that determined whether one was a sheep or goat?
- Or was the benevolence an outflow of being a sheep?
- What becomes of an "unbeliever" who is benevolent toward the Body of Christ?
- Are they considered sheep on that basis?
- What about "believers" that are NOT benevolent toward the Body of Christ?
- Does verse 46 infer that eternal punishment (age long?) is the consequence of
a lack of benevolence toward the Body of Christ?


Matthew 25:31-46 NIV
“When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’

37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’

40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’

41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’

44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’

45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’

46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

[

 

[Cyd]

Very intriguing chapter/passage.

At the judgment Jesus puts the sheep on his right and the goats on his left. - vs 33
The sheep are invited to take their inheritance because of their benevolence to the Body of Christ.
The goats are condemned because they didn't. And it ends with this.


Matthew 25:46 NIV
“Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”


Questions:
- Was it the benevolence that determined whether one was a sheep or goat?
- Or was the benevolence an outflow of being a sheep?
- What becomes of an "unbeliever" who is benevolent toward the Body of Christ?
- Are they considered sheep on that basis?
- What about "believers" that are NOT benevolent toward the Body of Christ?
- Does verse 46 infer that eternal punishment (age long?) is the consequence of
a lack of benevolence toward the Body of Christ?


Matthew 25:31-46 NIV
“When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’

37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’

40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’

41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’

44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’

45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’

46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

[

To me this is a dividing of nations..
Matthew 25:32 (KJV) And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

So as people say of the USA... all people that work and pay taxes do this as portions of that money go to the poor and those in prison etc so it is a nation judging of people. We also as a nation help other nations in need.

The version of the bible you are using makes it appear more as an individual thing to me because it adds words to the verse that are not there.

 

[Lambano]

To me this is a dividing of nations..

The Greek word used here is ἔθνη (ethne), the plural of ethnos. This is the word used in both the NT and the LXX for Gentiles (Hebrew goyim). Given that Jesus's audience is Jewish here (and the implicit world-view that 'we are God's people, the goyim are not God's people'), the implication is that the Son of Man is judging those who are "not God's people".

Which brings up the interesting question, who does the Son of Man consider his brothers and sisters?

 

[Lambano]

- What becomes of an "unbeliever" who is benevolent toward the Body of Christ? Are they considered sheep on that basis?
- What about "believers" that are NOT benevolent toward the Body of Christ?

This is an interesting pair of questions, especially if you've picked up on Jesus's "But many who are first will be last; and the last, first" vibe in the gospels. A vibe that makes me uncomfortable, I might add.

 

[St. SteVen]

To me this is a dividing of nations..
Matthew 25:32 (KJV) And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

So as people say of the USA... all people that work and pay taxes do this as portions of that money go to the poor and those in prison etc so it is a nation judging of people. We also as a nation help other nations in need.

That's an interesting view.
But would Jesus be dividing nations as sheep and goats?

The version of the bible you are using makes it appear more as an individual thing to me because it adds words to the verse that are not there.

Words that are not there?
How did you arrive at that conclusion?

[

 

[St. SteVen]

St. SteVen said:
- What becomes of an "unbeliever" who is benevolent toward the Body of Christ? Are they considered sheep on that basis?
- What about "believers" that are NOT benevolent toward the Body of Christ?

This is an interesting pair of questions, especially if you've picked up on Jesus's "But many who are first will be last; and the last, first" vibe in the gospels. A vibe that makes me uncomfortable, I might add.

Yes.
What is Jesus teaching in this passage?
Oftentimes verse 46 is lifted out of context with no consideration for what the whole passage says.

Benevolence is so pivotal in this passage. No other quality is discussed.
Consequences are binary. Punishment, or life. Which aren't even verbal opposites.
But that may be good news? Punishment is temporary; life is forever.

Matthew 25:46 NIV
“Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

[

 

[Lambano]

- Was it the benevolence that determined whether one was a sheep or goat?
- Or was the benevolence an outflow of being a sheep?

I brought up the "predestination" question on the original thread. If one is born a goat, is it "justice" to hold the goat accountable for acting like a goat?

(He asked sheepishly.)

 

[Lambano]

Is it significant that Jesus preached Olivet discourse (Matthew 24:3 - 26:1) to his disciples properly, not preached openly? (Target audience?) Why would Jesus want his disciples to know that those who treat His "brethren" with benevolence will be rewarded, while those who neglect His "brethren" will be punished? To encourage them for the tough times ahead?

 

[Lambano]

But that may be good news? Punishment is temporary; life is forever.

Matthew 25:46 NIV
“Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

You lost me there. Both the punishment and the life are αἰώνιον.

Now, if you want verbal opposites, what is the opposite of "eternal life"?

 

[Cyd]

The Greek word used here is ἔθνη (ethne), the plural of ethnos. This is the word used in both the NT and the LXX for Gentiles (Hebrew goyim). Given that Jesus's audience is Jewish here (and the implicit world-view that 'we are God's people, the goyim are not God's people'), the implication is that the Son of Man is judging those who are "not God's people".

Which brings up the interesting question, who does the Son of Man consider his brothers and sisters?

I agree with the meaning for the word itself. I am sure given the Jews had no nation, they were indeed confused as to what the Lord was saying. I also don't think the Jews had much knowledge of other nations as well. Just what percentage of any nation are Jews? I am sure it was a hard to understand saying. Therefore these verses must be based on a national level to me.

You know the answer to your question. Those that do the will of the Father. Mt 12:50 Interesting you brought that up, so question to you, can gentiles do the will of the Father and not be believers of Jesus?

 

[Cyd]

That's an interesting view.
But would Jesus be dividing nations as sheep and goats?


Words that are not there?
How did you arrive at that conclusion?

[

To me yes he is dividing nations looking at full nations rather than individuals.

Your bible verse added this (and he will separate the people one from another) whereas the KJV kept the full thing as nation meaning a group of people, not individuals. So he is not dividing people within the nation but separating each nation if I said that right so you understand.

 

[Lambano]

I am sure given the Jews had no nation, they were indeed confused as to what the Lord was saying. I also don't think the Jews had much knowledge of other nations as well. Just what percentage of any nation are Jews?

No, a "nation" in the Bible is not necessarily a political entity like, say, the U.S.A or the Roman Empire. A "nation" is a PEOPLE. (Which is why we get the English word "ethnic" from the same Greek word.) From that standpoint, the Jewish people consider themselves then and now as a "nation", regardless of what country they live in.

49 Then one of them, named Caiaphas, who was high priest that year, spoke up, “You know nothing at all! 50 You do not realize that it is better for you that one man die for the people than that the whole nation perish.”

51 He did not say this on his own, but as high priest that year he prophesied that Jesus would die for the Jewish nation. (John 11:49-51)

 

[Bob]

Thank you for posting one of my favorite scripture passages.

Note that of the six ways we are to help others (and yes, per Cyd, this is an individual responsibility) the first five are fundamental life-supporting actions, but the sixth commands us to carry out prison ministry—to give hope to the hopeless. Prison ministry is in fact unique to Christianity!

There is also the (unwelcome?) implication that all those who practice Love Your Neighbor Like Yourself can have hope for eternal life (e.g., the gentiles in Romans 2:14-15). Remember too that the Good Samaritan was the last person good Judeans would welcome into the Kingdom of God, but Jesus said otherwise.

(You have a knack for exposing Christian dilemmas; bravo!)

Blessings.

 

[St. SteVen]

(You have a knack for exposing Christian dilemmas; bravo!)

200+ topics and counting. - LOL
(up to 212 now - over 300k views)
So far, so good. I have made a few enemies, but many more friends.

[

 

[Cyd]

No, a "nation" in the Bible is not necessarily a political entity like, say, the U.S.A or the Roman Empire. A "nation" is a PEOPLE. (Which is why we get the English word "ethnic" from the same Greek word.) From that standpoint, the Jewish people consider themselves then and now as a "nation", regardless of what country they live in.

49 Then one of them, named Caiaphas, who was high priest that year, spoke up, “You know nothing at all! 50 You do not realize that it is better for you that one man die for the people than that the whole nation perish.”

51 He did not say this on his own, but as high priest that year he prophesied that Jesus would die for the Jewish nation. (John 11:49-51)

The same word for nation is used in both of these verses.


Exodus 19:6 (KJV) And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.

Genesis 10:5 (KJV) By these were the isles of the Gentiles divided in their lands; every one after his tongue, after their families, in their nations.

So does language play into it?

 

[Deborah_]

All the New Testament teaching on the final judgement has ambiguities.

How does this parable line up with the teaching elsewhere that in order to be saved our names must be written in the book of life? And that it's necessary for our good works to be inspired by our faith?
Is Jesus judging all nations here, or just those who claim to be His people? Are "His brothers" all the poor and needy of the world, or just believers? It isn't clear - and we could argue about it until the cows come home.

Personally, I think that the ambiguity is intentional. If we knew for certain what were the criteria for the final judgement, we'd be tempted to pre-empt that judgement and put ourselves on the judgement throne, by condemning whole groups of people now. Or get complacent and make unwarranted assumptions about our own status.

What can we say for certain?
1)There will be a judgement
2) The consequences of being a "goat' are as horrendous as the consequences of being a "sheep" are glorious
3) What we do in this life matters more than the labels we stick on ourselves
4) We can't pass judgement ourselves (only the Shepherd can tell the difference between a sheep and a goat)
5) There will be a lot of surprises on Judgement Day (in both camps)

 

[St. SteVen]

How does this parable line up with the teaching elsewhere...

Interesting that we always want challenging scriptures to "line up" with our pet doctrines.

What can we say for certain?
1)There will be a judgement
2) The consequences of being a "goat' are as horrendous as the consequences of being a "sheep" are glorious
3) What we do in this life matters more than the labels we stick on ourselves
4) We can't pass judgement ourselves (only the Shepherd can tell the difference between a sheep and a goat)
5) There will be a lot of surprises on Judgement Day (in both camps)

Yes.
Where does that leave us? What do we need to do?

[

 

[Deborah_]

Where does that leave us? What do we need to do?

Trust in Jesus, and start following Him (if you don't already).
Since genuine faith invariably leads to deeds of love and generosity, we then shouldn't have too much difficulty accumulating evidence that we are "sheep".

Refrain from assigning whole categories of people (e.g. Muslims, people who lived before the time of Christ. people who have never heard the Gospel) to Hell automatically. (Conversely, don't assume that all church members will end up in Heaven)

Preach the Gospel to everyone - because (genuine) commitment to Christ is the only guarantee of eternal life.