Sexual limitations

[Waiting on him]

κοινωνία
koinōnia
koy-nohn-ee'-ah
From G2844; partnership, that is, (literally) participation, or (social) intercourse, or (pecuniary) benefaction

 

[2 Chr. 34:19]

deliverance from it, is amazing :)

 

[Sabertooth]

King Solomon would agree, lol.
Song of Solomon 7:1 How beautiful are your sandaled feet, O daughter of the prince! The curves of your thighs are like jewels, the handiwork of a master"

But he didn't devote so much of his book to shoes & feet (as fetishists are wont to do).

 

[amadeus]

Good morning, John!

The counter argument here is that we can suppose ourselves to be following the Holy Spirit when in reality we are just following our conscience, and the New Testament shows examples of Christians who had been baptized in the Holy Spirit committing serious sins that their consciences had no problems with because the society they were raised in did not find such behavior reprehensible, such as using prostitutes for example. And this is what I see happening in this case as well. We are bringing our worldly morality into the church with us, rather than leaving it at the door where it belongs.

Yes, a counter argument for carnal people and/or deluded people who have only men's laws and the enforcement thereof to protect them from the worst things of the flesh. Believers who are really filled with the Holy Spirit and are not quenching the Spirit nor in delusion as they walk as man and wife must decide for themselves... They may ask for advice, but that is up to them, is it not?

Who should intervene in the lives of two Spirit filled people who love God and hear His voice?

"But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep.
To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.
And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.
And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers." John 10:2-5

When either one or both of them are not a sheep, then we have a different premise from the start.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Yes, a counter argument for carnal people and/or deluded people who have only men's laws and the enforcement thereof to protect them from the worst things of the flesh. Believers who are really filled with the Holy Spirit and are not quenching the Spirit nor in delusion as they walk as man and wife must decide for themselves... They may ask for advice, but that is up to them, is it not?

Who should intervene in the lives of two Spirit filled people who love God and hear His voice?

Thanks for the reply, bud. I seem to not be getting many lately.

In answer, John, I think the Spirit of God may. I've heard accounts of the Spirit of God revealing and exposing the private lives of people of God before entire congregations before. A wife swapping affair comes to mind, but I have heard others as well. Again, these were faithful members of a large congregation, but whose consciences had been seduced into mutually agreeing to very sinful behavior in the eyes of God, and He stepped in by the Spirit of God to correct it.

I recall something contained in a vision. Let me find it...

Jesus said, "These things are now beginning in the earth, are yet to be, and are soon coming upon all the earth. The fiery serpent is part of the beast. These prophecies you are about to read are true. The revelations are true. Watch and pray. Love one another. Keep yourselves holy. Keep your hands clean. Husbands, love your wives as Christ loved the church. Husbands and wives, love each other as I have loved you. I ordained marriage and blessed it with My Word. Keep the marriage bed holy. Cleanse yourself from all unrighteousness and be pure, even as I am pure.

"The holy people of God have been led away by flatterers. Do not be deceived; God is not mocked. Understanding will come to you if you will open your ears and listen to Me. This is the Lord's message to the churches. Beware of false prophets who stand in My holy place and deceive with flatteries. O earth, My holy people have fallen asleep to the sound of false doctrine. Awake, Awake! I tell you that all unrighteousness is sin. Cleanse yourself from all sins of the flesh and the spirit. My holy prophets lived holy lives, but you have rebelled against Me and My holiness. You have brought evil upon yourself. You have sinned and brought yourself into bondage to sickness and death. You have committed iniquity and have done wickedly and have rebelled against Me. You have departed from My precepts and from My judgments. You have not hearkened to the words of My servants, the prophet and the prophetess. Curses instead of blessings have come upon you, and still you refuse to return to me and repent of your sins. If you will return and repent and if you will honor Me with the fruit of righteousness, I will bless your homes and honor your marriage beds. If you will humble yourselves and call upon Me, I will hear you and bless you.

"Listen, you ministers of My Holy Word. Do not teach My people to sin against their God. Remember that judgment begins at the house of God; unless you repent, I will remove you for the sins you have taught My people. Do you think that I am blind that I cannot see and deaf that I cannot hear? You who hold the truth in unrighteousness and line your pockets with silver and gold at the expense of the poor-repent, I say, before it is too late. On the day of judgment you will stand alone before Me to give an account of what you did with My Holy Word. If you call upon Me in repentance, I will remove the curse from your lands and bless you with a mighty blessing. If you will repent and be ashamed of your sins, I will have mercy and compassion on you, and I will not remember your sins anymore. Pray that you may be an overcomer. Awake to life and live. Repent to the people you have led astray and taught false doctrine. Tell them you have sinned and that you have scattered My sheep. Repent to them.

"Behold, I am preparing a holy army. They will do mighty exploits for me and destroy your high places. They are an army of holy men and women, boys and girls. They have been anointed to preach the true gospel, to lay hands on the sick and to call the sinner to repentance. This is an army of working men, housewives, single men, single women and school children. They are common people, for not many noble have responded to My call. In the past they have been misunderstood and mistreated, abused and rejected. But I have blessed them with boldness in holiness and in spirit. They will begin to fulfill My prophecy, and to do My will. I will walk in them, talk in them I and work in them. These are they who have turned to me with all their heart, soul, mind and strength. This army will awaken many to righteousness and purity of spirit. I will soon begin to move upon them, to choose for My army those I desire. I will search for them in the cities and in the towns. Many will be surprised at those I have chosen. You will see them begin to move across the land and do exploits for My name's sake. Watch and see My power at work.

"Again I tell you, do not defile the marriage bed. Do not defile the body in which the Holy Ghost dwells. Sins of the body lead to sins of the spirit. Keep the marriage bed holy. I made man for woman and woman for man and decreed that the two should be united in holy matrimony. Again, I say awake."


Now, this is talking about the rise of the end-time army of God, and He both starts and ends with a very strong exhortation to walk in holiness, and keep the marriage bed holy. An objective holiness is being referring to here; about how HE will judge us, not about how we will judge ourselves.

It is also said that the Bride before His return will be washed white. I can only believe that the holiness present within the church by the very end will be of such an extent that nothing whatsoever unclean will be found in her, whether subjectively or objectively either.

God bless, and thanks for the response.

 

[Taken]

I got a bit of a giggle out of you quoting a Proverb of Solomon as Biblical authority on this, a guy who had 600 wives!!

I'm not familiar with a man being restricted only one wife.

The Scripture appears to Limit the marriage to; "A man and A woman."

I have no knowledge of how many Marriages Solomon had.

I wonder how he worked all of that out at bedtime?? :)

I would presume one husband with one wife.
But I think you are eluding to "which wife" tonight...??

I believe Solomon is recorded as having 3 children, mentioning no others...
Having hundreds of wives seems a bit overwhelming...let alone believing all those marriages were all consummated and ONLY 3 children were the result.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[amadeus]

Thanks for the reply, bud. I seem to not be getting many lately.

In answer, John, I think the Spirit of God may. I've heard accounts of the Spirit of God revealing and exposing the private lives of people of God before entire congregations before. A wife swapping affair comes to mind, but I have heard others as well. Again, these were faithful members of a large congregation, but whose consciences had been seduced into mutually agreeing to very sinful behavior in the eyes of God, and He stepped in by the Spirit of God to correct it.

The key to what I said was that they "love God". Not everyone that says they do, really do... and not everyone that does love Him, necessarily loves Him more than anything else. How much is always enough? I believe it is always enough when He always comes in first. When a person really sins, that is being put in first place even if it is for the moment or temporary. People who love God in every moment will never be deluded according to what Paul wrote. Alone, no one can get beyond the possibility of delusion.

Only someone who already completely overcome as Jesus did will never slip and sin. Who among us has already overcome so completely? [OSAS people don't stand up and don't answer here! That question is not for you!]

I recall something contained in a vision. Let me find it...

Remember that judgment begins at the house of God; unless you repent, I will remove you for the sins you have taught My people.

Good my friend! There seem to be more than a few with the wrong message and many who are calling the message wrong are also wrong in what they are calling wrong. When an error is seen, it is better to also be able to replace it with something better. God knows!

"Behold, I am preparing a holy army.

And old men are not excluded from the army because of the limitations of old flesh. Consider Abraham and Sarah!

Now, this is talking about the rise of the end-time army of God, and He both starts and ends with a very strong exhortation to walk in holiness, and keep the marriage bed holy. An objective holiness is being referring to here; about how HE will judge us, not about how we will judge ourselves.

It is also said that the Bride before His return will be washed white. I can only believe that the holiness present within the church by the very end will be of such an extent that nothing whatsoever unclean will be found in her, whether subjectively or objectively either.

God bless, and thanks for the response.

Give God the glory!

 

[Renniks]

Greetings, Renniks.

I used to believe these were references to sexuality as well, but I no longer do. So as to not pull any punches but simply tell it to you straight, I think such interpretations are actually just our dirty minds reading into scripture rather than what the verses are actually saying.

Having interpreted both scripture as well as visions and dreams for years now, I can tell you that sweets (such as fruit, honey, pies, etc.) all relate to the delights of the soul. Often you will see it used of romantic love, but you will also see it used of children, who are delights to our hearts as well. Certainly sexuality is an outgrowth of romantic love, but the symbolism used in the above verses is not a direct reference to sexuality but rather romantic love. Likewise, fragrance and spices refer to the allure of beauty, in that it entices and draws a lover in. There is nothing dirty in the above symbolism, nor anything overtly sexual. The symbolism is all in reference to the delights and enticements of the soul.

God bless,
Hidden

Sexuality in marriage isn't " dirty" first off. Of course these are delightful to the soul, sexuality in marriage is supposed to be a spiritual experience.
Anyway, you can't apply that reasoning to this verse:

Your breasts are perfect;
they are twin deer
feeding among lilies.
6 I will hasten to those hills
sprinkled with sweet perfume
and stay there till sunrise.

Try and make that non sexual if you like, but I'm not buying it.

Your stature is like a palm tree,
and your breasts are like its clusters.
8 I say I will climb the palm tree
and lay hold of its fruit.
Oh may your breasts be like clusters of the vine,
and the scent of your breath like apples,
9 and your mouth like the best wine.


It goes down smoothly for my beloved,
gliding over lips and teeth.

10 I am my beloved's,
and his desire is for me.

This is fairly erotic poetry, no matter how you read it.

 

[Stan B]

I'm not familiar with a man being restricted only one wife.

The Scripture appears to Limit the marriage to; "A man and A woman."

I have no knowledge of how many Marriages Solomon had.

I would presume one husband with one wife.
But I think you are eluding to "which wife" tonight...??

I believe Solomon is recorded as having 3 children, mentioning no others...
Having hundreds of wives seems a bit overwhelming...let alone believing all those marriages were all consummated and ONLY 3 children were the result.

Solomon certainly had more than three children! Those mentioned were those who had the most significant royal lineage, and lineage was passed on only by the male. No daughters were mentioned. And I seem to recall that there is an entire tribe in Africa whose heritage stems from Solomon's visit from the Queen of Sheba. :-)

Keep in mind that one of the major themes of Scripture is that of the genealogy of the one who would be Messiah. That genealogy traces all that way back to Adam in Luke 3 and Matt 1, and that's where it ends. The genealogical records were kept in the Temple, with the advent of Messiah the Temple and all the records were destroyed; notwithstanding that Josepus, who became a buddy of Titus, was able to save many of the Temple scrolls and have them transferred them to Rome.

 

[Renniks]

So then, lol, all of us seniors who enjoy sex are going to Hell?

You are probably much more holy than the senior couples who barely tolerate each other and never touch. I hope we are still frisky at 60 because it's not that far away!

 

[bbyrd009]

Ur being sarcastic right. But what do u think? Does God place a limit on sex between a couple?

Yah only knows what kind of answers you are getting, but i would consider that many of what we now deem Church Fathers seemed to be rather promiscuous, ot sure what to make of that myself, but there is also understand why the publicans and prostitutes are beating you in fwiw

That's a person who engages in anal intercourse

i suggest that there is a better interpretation for vv like that, that have nothing to do with actual sex, and everything to do with prophets gone a'whoring

 

[Hidden In Him]

People who love God in every moment will never be deluded according to what Paul wrote. Alone, no one can get beyond the possibility of delusion.

Only someone who already completely overcome as Jesus did will never slip and sin. Who among us has already overcome so completely? [OSAS people don't stand up and don't answer here! That question is not for you!]

LoL! Well yes, and I fully agree here. Once into sexual activity, the pleasure can become so intense that self-control and codes of "morality" go flying out the window a little bit, LoL. That's why I don't actually take the hardest line in matters of passion. Being "in the moment" does powerful things to people. But it is giving license and approval to that which ought to be guarded against that becomes the problem.

Good my friend! There seem to be more than a few with the wrong message and many who are calling the message wrong are also wrong in what they are calling wrong. When an error is seen, it is better to also be able to replace it with something better. God knows!

Amen!

 

[Hidden In Him]

Sexuality in marriage isn't " dirty" first off.

Agreed. Was never disputed.

Of course these are delightful to the soul, sexuality in marriage is supposed to be a spiritual experience.

My point was that sexual practice in the passages you quoted was not overtly being discussed.

Your breasts are perfect;
they are twin deer
feeding among lilies.
6 I will hasten to those hills
sprinkled with sweet perfume
and stay there till sunrise.

Try and make that non sexual if you like, but I'm not buying it.

I wouldn't make these particular verses non-sexual. But neither would I cite them as support for the notion that oral sex is being advocated. The reference is to embracing, and love making; of being together sexually until sunrise.

Your stature is like a palm tree,
and your breasts are like its clusters.
8 I say I will climb the palm tree
and lay hold of its fruit.
Oh may your breasts be like clusters of the vine,
and the scent of your breath like apples,
9 and your mouth like the best wine.

Amen to that stuff, brother! LoL. Again, however, my contention with your argument is that you are advocating for sodomy as being advocated in the scriptures. This is pure loving making, which I very STRONGLY advocate for.

 

[Taken]

Solomon certainly had more than three children! Those mentioned were those who had the most significant royal lineage, and lineage was passed on only by the male. No daughters were mentioned. And I seem to recall that there is an entire tribe in Africa whose heritage stems from Solomon's visit from the Queen of Sheba. :)

Keep in mind that one of the major themes of Scripture is that of the genealogy of the one who would be Messiah. That genealogy traces all that way back to Adam in Luke 3 and Matt 1, and that's where it ends. The genealogical records were kept in the Temple, with the advent of Messiah the Temple and all the records were destroyed; notwithstanding that Josepus, who became a buddy of Titus, was able to save many of the Temple scrolls and have them transferred them to Rome.

Scripture mentions Solomon's son and two daughters by name.
Ethiopia has an ancient elaborate legend of their Virgin unmarried Queen visiting Israel and becoming impregnated by Israel's King Solomon.
I have no knowledge to any certainty of Solomon haveing more than three children.

Aware of the HIGHLIGHT and necessity of Jesus being established as a Lawful Descendant of Abraham, Issac, Jacob and King David.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[amadeus]

Scripture mentions Solomon's son and two daughters by name.
Ethiopia has an ancient elaborate legend of their Virgin unmarried Queen visiting Israel and becoming impregnated by Israel's King Solomon.
I have no knowledge to any certainty of Solomon haveing more than three children.

Aware of the HIGHLIGHT and necessity of Jesus being established as a Lawful Descendant of Abraham, Issac, Jacob and King David.

Glory to God,
Taken

The descendants of Solomon were cut off from the throne of David as per Jerem 22:30. The line from David to Jesus was through another son of David, Nathan [Luke 3:31, II Sam 5:14].

 

[LC627]

So then, lol, all of us seniors who enjoy sex are going to Hell?

Apparently any married couple who enjoys the dirty "s" word is going to hell lol. How dare a couple in the union of marriage have fun with the gift that God gave them to enjoy.

 

[Renniks]

Amen to that stuff, brother! LoL. Again, however, my contention with your argument is that you are advocating for sodomy as being advocated in the scriptures. This is pure loving making, which I very STRONGLY advocate for.

I never even mentioned sodomy?
And the passages I quoted strongly imply something oral going on...

 

[Cristo Rei]

I have never heard any doctor even mention it, let alone oppose it.

With the wide promotion of homosexuality the last thing they want is for these medical facts to be released...

How Risky Is Anal Sex? A Gynecologist Explains
The Negative Side Effects Of Anal Sex
Anal Sex - We need to be honest about the health risks

 

[VictoryinJesus]

I've seen a person get banned from a forum just for bringing up this topic but on another forum ive seen one of the most intriguing conversations. These are genuine questions that many theologians have spent time pondering along with the average person... So im hoping a civilized discussion can ensue here without anyone getting triggered...

We know that sex has to be performed in a traditional hetrosexual marriage but what is sex?
Does God place any limitations in the bedroom?
On one hand a person in another forum said that his priest told him that anything outside of missionary position was sinful.
On the other hand there is hand sex, oral sex, anal sex and toys...

So, what do u think? Where do u draw the line? Where do u think God draws the line?

A short testimony if you don’t mind. Several years ago I was writing smut and publishing it. Erotica. It was after erotica and sexual bondage became so popular with fifty shades. So many authors were going in that direction, the world wanting raunchy stories they could dive into and escape. During that time I was in a very dark place. Convicted over and over, more and more. For years justifying and asking even my counselor ‘it is not bad is it.’? As a Christian counselor her advice was Christian women want realistic stories not shying away from sex but as long as the motive is good, I think it is okay. But no matter how many said it was okay. it didn’t feel okay. Song of Solomon was one where I could justify God is okay with erotica. Still remember that day I came into full agreement with Him the sin was not my writing erotica but was the harm against others by leading into bondage, promoting dark things done in secret, enticing lust and planting it and helping it grow. (Imo) Song of Solomon is not erotica. Although the world says it is and views it as such. Erotica gets in your mind and entices one to imagine all sorts of images like porn.
What I was writing was not clean. What God writes is clean. To see oral sex promoted in the Word is comparing semen to the immaculate seed. They are not the same. To say His seed remains, in you. Intimacy and sex, they are different. Comparing sex and intimacy is like comparing water where you drink and thirst again, never satisfied, with the Living water where one drinks and never thirsts again.

Erotica and the worlds love for it, willing to buy it up and mass produce it because it sells well...would be careful in what we say ‘see there, God promotes it.’ You can google now how God supports men with men and find the verse used to support the idea, but that doesn’t make it so. Can take the verses in Song of Solomon and as using Gods word to support men with men, support ‘see there, it supports oral sex too.’ God does not publish erotica. God published His Word. Seed. Tasting of fruit and He that love it will eat the fruit thereof. Breast with milk ...When every day it is spoken of those still in need of milk ...how then does it become comparing carnal things to Him?

 

[Renniks]

Comparing sex and intimacy is like comparing water where you drink and thirst again, never satisfied, with the Living water where one drinks and never thirsts again.

I would agree. I still don't understand why people have a problem with certain kinds of kissing for a married couple, though.
I can not find anywhere that the Word prohibits kissing below the waist in the marriage bed.
If there's such a verse I'm interested in hearing it.