Secure Eternal Salvation

[Ferris Bueller]

It just nevewr says that works are a "byproduct" of faith - but rather, an essential element OF it (James 2:14-26).

If works did not come from faith we would not need faith to live for God. But it's the very fact that we can't live for God in our natural selves that we need faith - faith to produce the life that is pleasing to God that we can't produce without faith. As so the righteous life is indeed the result of having received the righteousness that is from God, not the procurer of that righteousness. Righteous works do not make a person righteous. Christ died for nothing if that were true.

And, yes, works are an essential element, or accompaniment, of having faith...just not in regard to making a man righteous. But they are indeed essential in regard to validating that faith is present in a person and is genuine. But they have zero value toward making you righteous in God's sight. Only the forgiveness of your sin guilt can do that. That's what makes justification a free gift. But your theology makes justification a debt owed to the person who works. The very works gospel that Paul condemned and warned us about.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

The Word of God means everything it says.

Yes, but you're missing what it's saying. And so you claim it says something that is plain to see that it does not say.

 

[theefaith]

We don't care about the council of Trent.
Paul says Abraham was made righteous by the hearing of faith without works. We're going with that.
But we also understand that the same man who is made righteous by the hearing of faith without works will have the works to show for the righteousness he has received from God. And so a man will be justified that way, too.

to reject the church is to reject Christ! Acts 9:4

 

[theefaith]

To reject Christ is to reject salvation Lk 2:30 Christ is our salvation

 

[Ferris Bueller]

what you THINK is faith is NOT - unless you have works to complete oit (James 2:14-26).

Protestants understand perfectly that faith that does not produce works is not really faith. It is fake faith, or failed faith. Your error is saying faith is not faith until it does something. That's absurd. Faith is believing something. You don't have to do something to believe something. You believe something THEN you do something because you believe. It's absurd to say you don't believe something until you do something. How ridiculous.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

to reject the church is to reject Christ! Acts 9:4

Your definition of the church is in error. That's why you're afraid of the Catholic priesthood. You can't question them. They told you that you can't do that. And you believe them. And you believe them because you believe their false definition of the church.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

To reject Christ is to reject salvation Lk 2:30 Christ is our salvation

Nobody disagrees with this.
As long as you leave the priesthood, and Mary out of it we are in complete agreement.
Christ is Christ. Christ is NOT the priesthood. The priesthood is NOT Christ. This is where you go terribly wrong. And you are told not to challenge it. You're told that you're not even allowed to challenge it. You're a sitting duck for error. And that's how they want it.

 

[theefaith]

yep.

Well I listen to the apostles. and jesus

I don't listen to a church that tries to institute salvation by works..

non of those verses you posted contradicts my gospel..

bearing false witness is a violation of the commandment, but then again you’re special and are not required to obey the commandments of God!

I never said salvation by works alone!

 

[Ferris Bueller]

to reject the church is to reject Christ! Acts 9:4

When we reject the Catholic priesthood we are not rejecting Christ or the church. The Catholic priesthood is not the church. The Catholic church is not Christ. They told you they are and that you are not allowed to challenge that or you'd be challenging Christ. You're in a cult.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

bearing false witness is a violation of the commandment, but then again you’re special and are not required to obey the commandments of God!

I never said salvation by works alone!

well when I bear false witness. I will take that into consideration.

there is a huge difference between thinking you can obey the requirement (perfection) and admitting you understand you fail daily to obey the requirement.

the penalty of sin is death. Not being baptized, taking communion and doing penance. Those things will not remove sin, only the shedding of blood will.

Will you receive the cross? Or keep trying to do it on your own?

 

[theefaith]

Your definition of the church is in error. That's why you're afraid of the Catholic priesthood. You can't question them. They told you that you can't do that. And you believe them. And you believe them because you believe their false definition of the church.

the church cannot teach error or Christ would be teaching error

Lk 10:16 jn 16:13

 

[theefaith]

When we reject the Catholic priesthood we are not rejecting Christ or the church. The Catholic priesthood is not the church. The Catholic church is not Christ. They told you they are and that you are not allowed to challenge that or you'd be challenging Christ. You're in a cult.

they (who ever you’re thinking of ) did not tell me that but I deduced it from scripture acts 9:4 Christ and His church (the apostles) are one!

 

[theefaith]

well when I bear false witness. I will take that into consideration.

there is a huge difference between thinking you can obey the requirement (perfection) and admitting you understand you fail daily to obey the requirement.

the penalty of sin is death. Not being baptized, taking communion and doing penance. Those things will not remove sin, only the shedding of blood will.

Will you receive the cross? Or keep trying to do it on your own?

Why was I created? To know Love & serve God!
Love requires volition!
But like you daddy you say: “I will not serve” “I will not love” I will not obey”!!!!

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Why was I created? To know Love & serve God!
Love requires volition!
But like you daddy you say: “I will not serve” “I will not love” I will not obey”!!!!

We love why?

Because we are good people?

Or because God first loved us.

You can't claim you love God when you are tryign to earn his love by your actions..

and you can't claim you have the capacity to love when you refuse to allow Gods love to save you first..

 

[theefaith]

well when I bear false witness. I will take that into consideration.

there is a huge difference between thinking you can obey the requirement (perfection) and admitting you understand you fail daily to obey the requirement.

the penalty of sin is death. Not being baptized, taking communion and doing penance. Those things will not remove sin, only the shedding of blood will.

Will you receive the cross? Or keep trying to do it on your own?

Grace does not free us from responsibility to obey the moral law, but actually enables us to obey the moral law!

Phil 4:13 I can do all things through Christ which strengthens me.

2 cor 12:9 And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

Rom 5:2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

2 cor 9:8
And God is able to make all grace abound toward you; that ye, always having all sufficiency in all things, may abound to every good work:

Jn 15:1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.
4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Grace does not free us from responsibility to obey the moral law, but actually enables us to obey the moral law!

Phil 4:13 I can do all things through Christ which strengthens me.

2 cor 12:9 And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

Rom 5:2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

2 cor 9:8
And God is able to make all grace abound toward you; that ye, always having all sufficiency in all things, may abound to every good work:

Jn 15:1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.
4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

the responsibility of the moral law is perfection.

Moses made that requirment
Paul re asirted that requirment
and James proved it by claiming we can obey every word yet just stumble in one point and we are guilty

You have not made perfection. thus you have failed to meet that requirment

all your sacraments will not clear you from responsibility of being required to meet that requirment.

 

[theefaith]

the responsibility of the moral law is perfection.

Moses made that requirment
Paul re asirted that requirment
and James proved it by claiming we can obey every word yet just stumble in one point and we are guilty

You have not made perfection. thus you have failed to meet that requirment

all your sacraments will not clear you from responsibility of being required to meet that requirment.

the sacraments make us righteous!
Ez 36:25-27

 

[theefaith]

the responsibility of the moral law is perfection.

Moses made that requirment
Paul re asirted that requirment
and James proved it by claiming we can obey every word yet just stumble in one point and we are guilty

You have not made perfection. thus you have failed to meet that requirment

all your sacraments will not clear you from responsibility of being required to meet that requirment.

how did they do it?

Lk 1:6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

the sacraments make us righteous!
Ez 36:25-27

Nope

The blood of Christ makes you righteous.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

how did they do it?

Lk 1:6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

So they did not need saved?