Secure Eternal Salvation

[MatthewG]

For me my salvation is founded in the Gospel of Christ which is the power of God to Salvation. A person who seeks for God with continuing steadfast faith would continue to peruse God regardless if anyone came up against them as far telling them that it is not that important.

There are people who have things happen in their life where they lose a family member or a loved one and can go into darkness and have no light or have the son (sun light)in them because they are now to the point of “why didn’t God do this or do that, or they blame themselves, even I am not even worthy to have relationship with God, how could God love me for what I have done type situations.”

It’s so hard and if you haven’t talk to someone like this what would you say to them when they are in this position? Wouldn’t you encourage them to come back to the light? With gentleness and respect?

 

[Ferris Bueller]

It’s so hard and if you haven’t talk to someone like this what would you say to them when they are in this position? Wouldn’t you encourage them to come back to the light? With gentleness and respect?

Assuming you are talking about them going back to unbelief, yes, I would encourage them to come back. But if they refuse the day will come when they are not allowed to come back and they are turned over to a reprobate mind. How soon does that happen? We don't know but I think God takes mitigating factors into consideration when determining the amount of space, if any, God will give a particular person to reconsider their decision to not trust in the blood of Christ anymore.

 

[MatthewG]

Assuming you are talking about them going back to unbelief, yes, I would encourage them to come back. But if they refuse the day will come when they are not allowed to come back and they are turned over to a reprobate mind. How soon does that happen? We don't know but I think God takes mitigating factors into consideration when determining the amount of space, if any, God will give a particular person to reconsider their decision to not trust in the blood of Christ anymore.

Insightful information, Ferris thank you for sharing it.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

And your claims are as historically bankrupt as the "1619 Project".

You're in denial, friend.
There's no way the Catholic church and it's horrible history is somehow the manifest extension of the ministry of Christ and the Apostles as if they were here in the flesh themselves. Any honest person can see that.

Buy, what should I expect from a guy who thinks Jesus is a liar (Matt. 16:18) . . .

Those who continue to believe and resist the false teachings of man made religious institutions are the true church and the gates of hell will not prevail against them.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Just like Ferris, you need to learn the who and the why this was written. It was never written for Gentiles. All Scripture is equally inspired of God, but not all Scripture is equally applicable to all people.

Explain why it was impossible for a Jew to be restored to repentance because it subjects Christ to open shame, but not for gentiles:

4It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age— 6and then have fallen away—to be restored to repentance, because they themselves are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting Him to open shame." Hebrews 6:4-6​

 

[Ferris Bueller]

This is incorrect. Sin only hurts us, never the Lord!

‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for Me.’ Matthew 25:45

"If one part (of the body) suffers, every part suffers with it" 1 Corinthians 12:26​

 

[Ferris Bueller]

I notice y9ou never respond to all the verses that show one cannot lose their salvation. YOu have to keep editing God and put the implied to the dozens of verses (as long as you keep believing).

What verses have I not responded to?

 

[Cassandra]

This

I believe Biblical prophecy was fulfilled, and is, being fulfilled.
Apparently, you don't.

28Keep watch over yourselves and the entire flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers. Be shepherds of the church of God,g which He purchased with His own blood.h 29I know that after my departure, savage wolves will come in among you and will not spare the flock. 30Even from your own number, men will rise up and distort the truth to draw away disciples after them." Acts 20:28-30​

We know from history that the institution of the Catholic church was the beginning of the fulfillment of Paul's prophecy.


The promise of an overcoming church does not get nullified just because the outward religious organizations of man, including yours, are corrupt and lead many astray. Because as I said, the church is composed of individual believers, and is not a religious institution. There are those believers who did keep believing, and they were preserved despite all the corruption of men drawing people off into their corrupt systems of 'religion'. Just as true believers today will be preserved if they keep believing and resist these corrupt institutions.

God's people are in every church, and His Spirit is drawing them out. This keeps reminding me of the verse:

"And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues. Rev 18:4 (Bolds mine)

 

[Desire Of All Nations]

The Catholic church is just one of many different theologies within Christianity.
At the present time there is no one single organization that possesses the truth as an official representative of God on earth. There are individuals who are official representatives of God, but no organization is.

This is a rather presumptive argument, because you haven't looked into every church's teaching to know this is absolutely true. Revelation shows Christ marrying the 1 organization that has represented Him for the last 1900 years, so there is an organization out there that officially represents God. Protestants believe the opposite is true because they've been conditioned by the Reformers to hate the idea of a single church having ecclesiastical authority, and not because it's what the Bible actually teaches. Contrary to Protestant thought, Christ is not going to marry thousands of different groups that have spent the last several centuries contradicting each other and the Bible.

Spoken like a person who has chosen to listen to flawed, disobedient men who came after the 16th century instead of Christ.

Jesus said it - I believe it.
Too bad YOU don't . . .

Matt 16:16-19
And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of the netherworld shall NOT prevail against it.

Luke 10:16
Whoever listens to YOU listens to ME. Whoever rejects YOU rejects ME. And whoever rejects ME rejects the ONE who sent ME."

Nowhere in that passage did Christ say "I ordain you, Simon Peter, as the first pope" though. Catholics frequently cite this passage as proof that their church was supposedly founded by Christ while completely ignoring the fact that the Greek shows Christ saying the Church would be built on Himself. Paul reinforced this statement in Eph. 2 and 1 Cor. 3 where he says Jesus is the sole foundation. That's why Jesus said His Church won't die. When i read about the vision John saw in Rev. 1, i don't see him talking about Simon Peter holding 7 stars in his hand or standing among the 7 lampstands.

Wrong again. gnostics were not OSAS. Well go check some greek grammar manuals and learn something. I am not going to spend a long time trying to track down what I have in my Greek grammar book from bible College.

It is classic Gnosticism, because the core doctrine of this belief is that a person will go to a paradise of some sort regardless of what they do while their soul is trapped in their physical bodies. When Simon Magus started his counterfeit church, he blended this belief with the doctrine concerning salvation. Where you do think the belief that obeying God isn't necessary came from? It certainly didn't come from Christ or any of the epistles.

Just like Ferris, you need to learn the who and the why this was written. It was never written for Gentiles. All Scripture is equally inspired of God, but not all Scripture is equally applicable to all people.

"But He answered and said, 'It is written, ‘Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.’ ” - Matt. 4:4

Christ didn't say "the Israelite/Jewish man shall live by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God". He said "man", as in every human being. There isn't a single word in the Bible that doesn't apply to Gentiles. After all, God explicitly stated in Deuteronomy that Israel was given His laws so the rest of the world would follow their example. It makes no sense to argue the Bible wasn't supposed to apply to Gentiles when the Bible shows God is going to render judgement on the world for living contrary to what the Bible says.

God can do anything, but He told us in His Word that No one can pluck us out of HIs hand!

And the unsaved have no free choice.

Just because no one can pluck a Christian from God's hand doesn't mean the Christian can't choose to leave His hand. A Christian has to consistently choose to stay there. That's what OSAS people don't understand. Or maybe they just don't want to understand it.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Oh Yes it does.! What are you thinking?

Show from Scripture where sin currently hurts the Lord.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

And you know this how?
2 Tim 3:16 "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

So I assume if your children are rebellious, you take them to the city gates and stone them? that is a command of god and is in the Bible.

I assume you do not eat shellfish, or pork. These are also in the bible.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

There you go.
John 3:36 " He that believeth on the Son hath eternal life; but he that obeyeth not the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abideth on him"

So if you are in a period of unbelief you will not be obeying the Lord. This verse says that person will not receive life. He gets God's wrath.

So that verse does not say what you think it says.

Sorry, not a winner. Thanks for playing.

So you believing in being saved, then losing it for disobedience then being saved, then losing it for disobedience. How many times must you disobey to lose your salvation?

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Explain why it was impossible for a Jew to be restored to repentance because it subjects Christ to open shame, but not for gentiles:

4It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age— 6and then have fallen away—to be restored to repentance, because they themselves are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting Him to open shame." Hebrews 6:4-6​

It is found in the chapters entitles "The letter to the Hebrews". Then read the whole book and see what the writer is contrasting Jesus to- the Mosaic Law and the sacrifical system in it!

Seriously, how long have you been saved??????

 

[Ronald Nolette]

But He answered and said, 'It is written, ‘Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.’ ” - Matt. 4:4

Christ didn't say "the Israelite/Jewish man shall live by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God". He said "man", as in every human being. There isn't a single word in the Bible that doesn't apply to Gentiles. After all, God explicitly stated in Deuteronomy that Israel was given His laws so the rest of the world would follow their example. It makes no sense to argue the Bible wasn't supposed to apply to Gentiles when the Bible shows God is going to render judgement on the world for living contrary to what the Bible says.

So I assume you do not eat shellfish, pork, do not mix fabrics, keep the feast of tabernacles, first fruits, passover, pentecost etc.etc.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

What verses have I not responded to?

Go back and look them up.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Just because no one can pluck a Christian from God's hand doesn't mean the Christian can't choose to leave His hand. A Christian has to consistently choose to stay there. That's what OSAS people don't understand. Or maybe they just don't want to understand it.

Show a verse that says He can and then we can for further. and you ad- hominem not withstanding- Jesus said I give them eternal life (present) and they shall NEVER perish.

If you could take yourself out of jesus hand, you would pluck yourself . Or are you going to not pick because it says pluck. If you are, I want you to show a verse that says you can walk out of His hands.

 

[Cassandra]

So you believing in being saved, then losing it for disobedience then being saved, then losing it for disobedience. How many times must you disobey to lose your salvation?

i would think that if you disobeyed, and were unrepentant, as you would be in unbelief, unless repentnce is made before death, that's it.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

There you go.
John 3:36 " He that believeth on the Son hath eternal life; but he that obeyeth not the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abideth on him"

So if you are in a period of unbelief you will not be obeying the Lord. This verse says that person will not receive life. He gets God's wrath.

So that verse does not say what you think it says.

Sorry, not a winner. Thanks for playing.

Now go and learn exactly what jesus said. believeth is the present active participle--which because it is in the present believes is rendered believed! If Jesus meant that one has to keep on believing over and over and over again He would have inspired a different construct. this construct shows a one time action.

And it is not obeys but believes in the b part of the verse also it is pisteuo just like in the a part of the verse. Obey is hypakouō

 

[Cassandra]

So I assume if your children are rebellious, you take them to the city gates and stone them? that is a command of god and is in the Bible.

I assume you do not eat shellfish, or pork. These are also in the bible.

You are reaching with respect to the children scenario. You can't make yourpoint so you come off with something else?

And as for shellfish and pork, I sure don't eat them. I follow the dietary laws. They were not mosaic. Even Noah knew the difference between clean and unclean.

Genesis 7:2, KJV: "Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female.

 

[Cassandra]

Now go and learn exactly what jesus said. believeth is the present active participle--which because it is in the present believes is rendered believed! If Jesus meant that one has to keep on believing over and over and over again He would have inspired a different construct. this construct shows a one time action.

And it is not obeys but believes in the b part of the verse also it is pisteuo just like in the a part of the verse. Obey is hypakouō

No, you go and learn! I'm not the one thinking it is perfectly fine to hurt the Lord, and encourage others to do so, and not repent, and think my feet don't stink.