Secure Eternal Salvation

[Ferris Bueller]

Christ’s Christ’s Church IS an organized Body and has ALWAYS had leadership which continues to this day

And you think I haven't been saying this????
What I reject is the Catholic church's claim that they are that body.
You know, the church that has the blood of probably millions of people on their hands, putting them to death because they didn't agree with their teachings and threatened their positions of wealth and influence and status. The murderous church you claim is the spittin' image of Christ and the Apostles on earth. Yeah, right. That's a joke.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

YOUR perverted view of the Church is a man-made invention . . .

You don't even know what 'church' means, do you?
It's referring to 'called out ones'.
Any and everybody who has been called out of the world through faith in Christ is the church.
You're making the church out to be an institution of dogmas and ceremonies. That's not what 'called out ones' means.
You do NOT have to go to 'church' to be a called out one.
You are the church by virtue of your faith in Christ for the forgiveness of sin apart from the merit of works (Romans 4:6).

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Free choice!
I answered that already.
He saves everyone who calls on his name.

Now, back to answering my question...
What's so hard about doing that (unsaving the saved)?

God can do anything, but He told us in His Word that No one can pluck us out of HIs hand!

And the unsaved have no free choice.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

. . . And then there are those who think they have secure eternal salvation but discover they don't.

Luk 13:27-28 But He will say, 'I tell you I do not know you, where you are from. Depart from Me, all you workers of iniquity.' (28) There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, and yourselves thrust out.

Yep, but they are all trusting in something other than the death and resurrection of Jesus for their salvation! Th econtext is showing they are presenting their works to gain admission. doesn't work that way.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

So you reject the idea that Scripture is our sole authority?
So, you accept the Christian belief that Sacred Tradition goes hand-in-hand with the Scriptures in its Authority?

What I know is that the gift of wisdom and discernment operates in the church.
And that gift NEVER violates or nullifies or changes the revelation of God we already have in the written word.
Through wisdom and discernment we can have a fuller understanding and application of the written word. And so the prophetic, oral word of God only goes above and beyond what is written in that way only. Revelation NEVER violates what is already revealed to us in the pages of the written word.

Now, back to your exegesis of Hebrews 6:4-6, thank you.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

God can do anything, but He told us in His Word that No one can pluck us out of HIs hand!

If you'll read those passages you'll see the issue is about being forcibly removed from the hand of God, against your will. Not that you can't remove yourself from God's grace by no longer believing in him.

And the unsaved have no free choice.

He gives them the free will to choose Him when he calls them.
If they reject it, they eventually go back to being not free to choose him.

 

[Illuminator]

Your dismissing child molestation and rape by RRC priests in order to point to protestant clergy as worse.

WOW!
That's sick.

No Catholic member in this board has denied sex abuse by clergy has happened. What's sick is your denials that sex abuse scandals are in fact worse, as Protestantism has no central authority to deal with the problem.

Actual Catholics know indulgences are still part of the church.

Does the Church Still Believe in Indulgences? - Ascension Press Media.


Thanks for losing your temper and showing us you're here to stoke controversy between Christians and RRC Catholics.

Indulgences.
"Indulgences remain a most
sacrament in the Catholic Church today. While only God can forgive sin according to Catholic theology, the church continues to teach that an indulgence can cancel the temporal penalty the sinner may incur. Nowhere in the Scriptures do we find a teaching of, or a validation for, indulgences.
Indulgences – His Word Today

Your links are typical anti-Catholic misrepresentations. Another perfect derailer, just like sex abuse scandals. Indulgences are not a sacrament, so you are doubly confused.
The pious use of indulgences dates back into the early days of the Church, and the principles underlying indulgences extend back into the Bible itself. The principles behind indulgences are as clear in Scripture as those behind more familiar doctrines, such as the Trinity. Primer on Indulgences
Your mind is closed, you are the least bit interested in seeking the truth of what Catholics really believe, so you carry on the same stupid rants that's been going on for 454 years.
The Council of Trent instituted severe reforms in the practice of granting indulgences, and, because of prior abuses, “in 1567 Pope Pius V canceled all grants of indulgences involving any fees or other financial transactions” (Catholic Encyclopedia). Myths about Indulgences
454 years of senseless complaining by ignorant Protestants.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

If God willed I never sin again, I wouldn't. And in heaven He does and I won't!

Thought so.

O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called.

Which some professing have erred concerning the faith.

Christians don't argue about Jesus' salvation with the unsaved. We just observe the vain babblings and take note.

And this is saying what???? what are you implying?

 

[Ronald Nolette]

God's sovereignty allows man to choose to be saved or not.

YOu are so so so very very wrong!

We are the elect (chosen) from the foundation of the world, we were foreknown, (prognosis) predestined,(prohorizo)

As a matter of fact, no one can come to Jesus unless God drags HIm! and all who come to HIm , He in no wise will cast out! That is a bible verse BTW. Yours isn't, it is a philosophical musing.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

None whatsoever.
John the Baptist was born with the Holy Spirit.
God chooses various people for special missions in this life.
Meanwhile, he's saving everyone who calls on his name, because he said he would.
Even though some of them aren't going to endure to the very end, he is faithful to his own word to save them when they cry out to him.

Yep and no man can pluck us out of Jesus hands! So unless your name is "no man" you cannot pluck yourself out of Jesus hand!

 

[Ronald Nolette]

That is right. But that hardly means he doesn't have free will when God enables him to exercise free will.

That is correct, but you cannot show a verse that shows a man can pluck Himself out of Jesus hand!

Our salvation is kept in heaven, you would have to go to heaven to give it up.
We are dead and our life is hidden in Christ. Dead men cannot give or take anything!
When Christ appears we SHALL appear with Him! No maybe or conditional there.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

When a person chooses to receive the free gift being offered to them, and they later toss it aside, there is no choosing it again. God doesn't allow that. It puts Christ to open shame.

According to the false teaching and shallow reading of those verses it seems that way. But it is a false teaching promoting a false gospel.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Unbelief is a rejection of God's parentage. It's moving out of the house and not wanting to be under the Father's authority and rule anymore. You're not a part of His household anymore if you move out:

"...we are His house, if we hold firmly to our confidence and the hope of which we boast." Hebrews 3:6
​

But you say we are still His house if we don't hold firmly to our confidence and hope.

Wrong again!

We are in the Fathers house! Our actions after being adopted either reward us or not reward us with crowns. But a child is a child forever. I foolishly disowned my mother once- she was still my mother. You cannot undo your genetics. And being born again is being regened! You are now a child of God- yo cannot un-regene yourself.

You can be a spoiled disobedient brat (like you are now in holding this lie) or you can be an obedient child.

If one who "professes" to be a believer, ends up judged and sent to teh lake of fire- The Bible is explicitly clear in three places- They never were a believer to start with! They were a weed and not a wheat, a goat and not a sheep, and one who never got saved, but adopted a religious lifestyle.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

If that is true, then this verse is not true:

"14We have come to share in Christ if we hold firmly to the end the assurance we had at first." Hebrews 3:14
​

Even if you want to conveniently define 'if' as 'since' the verse is still made false by your assertion that the believer who falls away retains his share of Christ.

YOu need to pay attention! Hebrews is written to jews and it is written to people who are on the fence. If you wish to stay a superficial and shallow student- trhat is your problem, but Don't blame Gods Word for the false teaching you are promoting. That is all on you !

That verse is 100% true- just not in the way you mishandle it.

 

[robert derrick]

As a matter of fact, no one can come to Jesus unless God drags Him!

Spoken like a true OSAS hater of obedience to the hard task Master God.

The carnal minds keep thinking they are somehow saying something profound, but only show their carnal minded unwillingness to love God by obeying Him.

The only thing they willfully do is continue in sins, and gleefully celebrate their 'grace' that covers it all, and blinds God to it.

And this is saying what???? what are you implying?

It means exactly what is says: OSAS has declared me to not be saved, sad, unrepentant, from the pit of hell, full of bitterness, etc...

So, if that conclusion is correct, then Christians shouldn't be bothering with my vain babblings, but rather just ignore them.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

If you go back to unbelief in a denial of Christ you are no longer a part of him that he should have some obligation to not deny you.

But He cannot deny himself

2 Timothy 2:13
If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

He will not leave you or forsake you!

Hebrews 13:5
Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee. This is an absolute statement!

God will not let His children stumble as to fall. that is also His promise! You should learn to relax and rejoice that you have a God who loves you far more than you have been falsely taught.

Philippians 1:6
Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

Another absolute statement! So unless God has not begun a good work in someone- He will perform until the day of Jesus Christ! YOu add copnditions where there are none! Not even in the Greek which is the deciding factor!

 

[Ferris Bueller]

you cannot show a verse that shows a man can pluck Himself out of Jesus hand!

A man doesn't have to pluck himself out of God's hand, lol.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

According to the false teaching and shallow reading of those verses it seems that way. But it is a false teaching promoting a false gospel.

Uh, you're terribly mistaken if you think OSAS or non-OSAS is the gospel, lol.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

No one can snatch you out of Jesus' hands by force against your will. But you retain the free will to leave if you want.

Show a bible verse that says that! that is pure human reasoning! Adding words to the passage demeans you !

That verse has no implication of "force against your will", nor does it have "but you retain the free will to leave if you want". YOu are beginning to respond just like a JW in makin gup things and adding it to SCripture!

 

[Ronald Nolette]

A man doesn't have to pluck himself out of God's hand, lol.

Wrong phrasing- A man can't pluck himself, and He cannot walk out either- Jesus will never leave me or forsake me!

Poor Ferris.