Secure Eternal Salvation

[Ferris Bueller]

And the fact that you can't drop this already shows me TWO things:
- You are too full of self-pride to let this go.
- You lack the maturity to let this go.

Nobody is attacking you. I have repeatedly conceded the fact that I was mistaken when I responded to your initial post.

Now - let's see if you can muster the maturity to drop this now . . .

Why are you saying all this?
Just tell us. Does the Catholic have to re-justified over and over again?

 

[Ferris Bueller]

I say that simply because you are simply judging based on appearance while God judges from the inside. god knows if a person truly got saved or not! If they are truly a child of God, they cannot become an unchild of God, The Bible forbids that kind of thought! I do not support, encourage or promote believers to fail. But I do know that if a believer stumbles, god will keep them from falling.

We cannot turn our backs on Jesus. He will never leave or forsake us! If we turn th eother way- He turns with us- so we cannot turn our backs.

You don't understand yet that you are a new man being conformed into the image of Jesus. The old sinner is dead and gone forever! Even though we still sin (old thought habits God is ridding us via Romans 12:1-3)

We are alreadu inheavenly places, we are already dead in and his in Jesus! He elected us from the foundation of the World, foreknew us predestined us etc.etc.etc. He is not going to do all that just to undo it and say whoops my bad!

I find it interesting that you think a person who doesn't believe anymore is not evidence that they do not believe anymore.

 

[robert derrick]

I say that simply because you are simply judging based on appearance while God judges from the inside.

Classic hippy liberalism 101:

I may do bad things, but my heart is good!

Fornicator on the outside, saint on the inside.

OSAS are silly children that never grow up.

Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

Righteous judgement is to judge according to the Word of God, not according to OSAS appearances of virtue signalling happy talk and niceness for Christian 'goodness'.

A fornicator is a fornicator is a fornicator.

But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

Jesus judges the lust of the heart, before it ever happens in the flesh. He sees a fornicator before the fornication.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

It was NOT a gaggle of "denominations" with different and competing doctrines.

Right, it's not a denomination. I've been saying all along that the true church of God is composed of individual believers who are trusting in the blood of Christ for the forgiveness of their sin. There might even be some in your denomination!

 

[Robert Gwin]

Hebrews 6:5 is talking about what they have done. Thus the 'd' on the word 'ministered'. But it also makes reference to the fact that they are continuing to do that. 'Faith and patience (the perseverance of faith)' are continuing attributes of the saved person. That is what accompanies salvation. Deadness is the attribute of the person who will be burned in the end.

Are you looking to try to catch me in something?

I asked you a question and you answered sir, I believe you answered honestly, however your answer was as I stated, exactly opposite. Quite simply put, the word minister means servant, not served.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Church History teaches us WHAT the name of that ONE Church in the 1st century was . . .

Anybody can call themselves the one universal church.
Don't you know that even the Protestants refer to their church as the 'Catholic' (Universal) church?
Even you have to admit just calling yourself the one true universal church doesn't make it so.

You are member of the true church of God if you are trusting in the blood of Christ for the forgiveness of sin. What church you attend does not determine if you are the true universal church of God.

 

[robert derrick]

Propitiation is the correct word.

Propitiation proves the point: Propitiate is ready to forgive cheerfully, upon confession unto repentance.

And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

The the blood of the Lamb doesn't 'cover' anyone's sins, whether the believer or the world. His blood only washes clean upon repentance for His sake.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

I asked you a question and you answered sir, I believe you answered honestly, however your answer was as I stated, exactly opposite. Quite simply put, the word minister means servant, not served.

I just checked. The word 'ministered' is a verb. An aorist verb at that, indicating completed action.
He is telling them that God will not forget what they have done and are continuing to do in service to the saints:

"For God is not unjust. He will not forget your work and the love you have shown for His name as you have ministered to the saints and continue to do so." Hebrews 6:10
​

Their service to the saints is the growth that accompanies salvation. Meanwhile, the one who does not have that which accompanies salvation will in the end be burned. They are not saved. Their barren useless 'land' is evidence of that.

"...land that produces thorns and thistles is worthless, and its curse is imminent. In the end it will be burned.9Even though we speak like this, beloved, we are convinced of better things in your case—things that accompany salvation. 10For God is not unjust. He will not forget your work and the love you have shown for His name as you have ministered to the saints and continue to do so." Hebrews 6:8-10​

 

[Ferris Bueller]

The the blood of the Lamb doesn't 'cover' anyone's sins, whether the believer or the world. His blood only washes clean upon repentance for His sake.

I don't use the word 'cover' to convey any sense that our sins are still there but not held to our account. They are covered in that they are gone and not held against us. In the vernacular of our day, God has us 'covered'.

 

[robert derrick]

I have a question for the OSASers :
Suppose I give my life to Jesus and I'm saved. Later on, down the road a few years, I get into an altercation with someone. I am so angry I kill him. (I showed no remorse for killing. I was just angry and went off on the guy.)The police show up and shoot me and I die. Am I still saved?

I would like, in your opinion, a yes or no answer. I don't need Bible verses, as are plenty in this thread from both sides. What I need is your judgement of the situation, based on your understanding of OSAS.

Yes. The scenario shows a few years down the road.
Are you OSAS? Can you answer?
People get mad and and sin. I just want to know, if the above happened, am i still saved, since I guess Christ's blood covers future sins too.

Well, really 'bad' sins don't count.

Then you were just a pig and a dog all along.

But normal fornication, drunkenness, etc...that's ok. You're covered.

However, since God can only judge the heart, and cannot judge the deeds, then if you still believe you are saved before killed by the cops, you're still good to go.

So, no matter what, just keep telling yourself "I am Saved. I am saved. I am saved"

God must honor our faith. He has not choice, because Princess Grace tells Him so.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

The people in Matt. 7:21 truly though that they were saved because the believed by the works they were doing in His name. They lacked true faith.

By definition that's not faith.
They had NO faith.
They were relying on their works instead.
Their claim is in their works, not their faith.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Then, you disagree with Jesus.

"4It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age— 6and then have fallen away—to be restored to repentance, because they themselves are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting Him to open shame." Hebrews 6:4-6
​

Once you get turned over to this, it's over. You're not allowed to come back.

 

[robert derrick]

Well that belief in the greek is a once for all time belief! In grammatic terms, it is an action that continues to hold true throughout all time!

Teh Bible shows many types of faith a believer displays.

1. Saving faith- a once for all time act
2. living faith- this is the faith given us by which we do th eworks fo God
3. Miracle faith to do and believe in god doing miracles.

2&3 are active ongoing practices. If we fail thiese we will not be blessed because we will allow sin to block our fellowship with God, not our relationship.

Children are children forever. They are either obedient of disobedient children.

1. Saving faith- a once for all time act 2. living faith- this is the faith given us by which we do th eworks fo God 3. Miracle faith to do and believe in god doing miracles. 2&3 are active ongoing practices.

More carnal minded psychobabble: separating 'saving' faith from 'living' faith.

We can have the faith that saves but not the faith that lives.

The faith that saves is the faith that saves: it obeys Him. It believes all Scripture.

If ye had faith as a grain of mustard seed.

Believing God is obeying God. It's not a three step program of man's dysfunctional faith.

If we fail these we will not be blessed because we will allow sin to block our fellowship with God, not our relationship.

I.e. I have no fellowship with God by sins, but I am still saved by faith, though it is alone and dead by sins.

And so, there are pig and dog believers, who believe they are saved, and pig and dog unbelievers, who don't believe that. The pig and dog unbelievers are more honest.

If we fail to obey, we are not saved, except we repent. The grace of God is space to repent with help in time of need. Grace is not a cover for sins.

Children are children forever. They are either obedient of disobedient children.

And so, obedience to the faith is finally allowed into salvation: Obedient children of God and disobedient children of the world.

Eternal salvation is only for the obedient children of God.

Faith alone is dead, and there is no salvation for them that disobey Him. Nor fellowship.

 

[robert derrick]

Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.

Salvation is by faith in Jesus from the heart. Faith in Jesus from the heart is obeying Him from the heart.

Faith in the heart is obedience in the heart.

Faith alone is dead and saves no man: it is not with obedience from the heart.

For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness.

Believing unto righteousness is obeying unto righteousness.

We are saved by grace through believing unto righteousness. Believing unto salvation is obeying unto righteousness.

Believing without obeying is a lie. Salvation by believing only is a covenant with death.

 

[robert derrick]

We are saved by believing unto righteousness and we are justified by obeying unto righteousness.

There is no justification with God but by works of His righteousness by faith.

There is no salvations of God without justification with God.

Faith without works of faith is dead, and salvation without works that justify is a lie.

 

[robert derrick]

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Seeing is believing. Believing is obeying.

Obeying is the evidence of believing. No obeying, no believing, no salvation.

Talk is cheap. Obedience is proof.

Obeying Jesus is the evidence of salvation by believing Jesus.

Salvation by faith alone is cheap talk that ends in the grave.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Why are you saying all this?
Just tell us. Does the Catholic have to re-justified over and over again?

Because you lack the maturity to accept that I conceded the fact that I replied to your initial response in error so you keep harping on it. Probably because it’s the only “victory” you’ve had in our dialogue . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Right, it's not a denomination. I've been saying all along that the true church of God is composed of individual believers who are trusting in the blood of Christ for the forgiveness of their sin. There might even be some in your denomination!

Thank you for admitting that.

The Catholic Church is not a “denominiatio0n” – it is the Original Tree of Christianity from which Protestant denominations splintered and continue to splinter to this day to the tune of tens of thousands of disjointed factions.

As to your 2nd unbiblical fallacy on RED – Christ’s Church is not a “hidden” gaggle of Lone Ranger believers. It is a visible entity, a shining city on a hill that cannot be hidden (Matt. 5:14). It is the Bod of Christ on earth – not the hidden body PARTS of Christ.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Anybody can call themselves the one universal church.
Don't you know that even the Protestants refer to their church as the 'Catholic' (Universal) church?
Even you have to admit just calling yourself the one true universal church doesn't make it so.

You are member of the true church of God if you are trusting in the blood of Christ for the forgiveness of sin. What church you attend does not determine if you are the true universal church of God.

And this is perhaps your most naïve – and ignorant response.

The Catholic Church didn’t start calling itself the Universal Church in the 16th century when you man-made Protestant factions were being assembled. It has been called this since the time of the Apostles. I even quoted Ignatius of Antioch, who was a disciple of the Apostle John – who was presumable STILL ALIVE when Ignatius wrote about the “Catholic Church”.

There is only ONE Church (Matt. 16:18, John 16:20-23).
Unfortunately, there are tens of thousands of splintered factions of that ONE Church who ALL teach different doctrines based on the whims of mere men . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

"4It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age— 6and then have fallen away—to be restored to repentance, because they themselves are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting Him to open shame." Hebrews 6:4-6

Once you get turned over to this, it's over. You're not allowed to come back.

The context of Heb. 6:4-6 is NOT that God cannot restore a fallen away Christian.
This Book was written to JEWISH Christian converts who once trusted in the Law and the Old Covenant.

- In chapters 1 and 2, Jesus is shown to be greater than the angels and is revealed as God.
- Chapters 3 and 4 reveal Him as the true high priest and is greater than Moses, and fulfills what the Sabbath symbolized.
- Chapters 5 and 7 show Him to be the fulfillment of Melchizedek.
- Chapter 8 describes Him as being superior to and the fulfillment of the Old Covenant,
- Chapters 9 and 10 show Him to be superior to the temple and its sacrifices.

He. 6:4-6 is NOT saying it is impossible to be forgiven of having become apostate. It is telling the Hebrew readers that is impossible for those who “have tasted the heavenly gift” of the New Covenant to return to the Old Covenant in order to be saved.

To rip He. 6:4-6 OUT of its proper context and assign it as an “impossibility” for God is to pervert the Scriptures.