Secure Eternal Salvation 2

[robert derrick]

For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world.

The grace of God is for help in time of need to overcome temptation and not to sin.

OSAS blind grace teaches help in time of need to not be judged for their sins from time to time, because they can't help it but to do so.

Sinners sinning from time to time are not saved by the grace of God, but are willingly defeated by the grace to sin in time of need.

From time to time they do not seek grace to help endure temptation and overcome sin, but rather trust in a grace that judges not.

OSAS is not saved by the grace of God, because they do not seek to live by the grace of God, and learn obedience to God at all times, even as Jesus showed us to do, and His grace teaches us to do.

 

[Wynona]

It is so important to read as much Scripture as possible for yourself without any prior biases.

These educated theologians are sometimes trying to get away from the plain truth of the Scripture.

If you read it without any indoctrination, you will come to Scriptures about obedience and faith and it will all make sense.

It's not that we lose our salvation every time we sin. It's that when you fall you continue to get back up without the intention of getting back on the ground again. We were bought with a high price and we are not the owners of our lives. So we are not to live however we want.

You may stumble but you confess and renew your mind each time until that thing that tripped you up no longer has the same power.

God would not ask for obedience over and over in Scripture if it were impossible. God wanted obedience from Adam and Eve. He wants it from us today. Why? Because He is good and sin destroys us. He hates sin because He loves us. God is love.

He has the right to demand that we become servants of righteousness rather than servants of sin. Because He is good and He knows that sin isn't good for us.

 

[robert derrick]

You forgot the part in the law on the day of atonement.

The blood was splattered on the ark. So God could not see the charges against the people.

While yes, He sees our personal sins.

What he does not see, Is what condemned us..

Thats called redemption.

While yes, He sees our personal sins.

You OSAS people need to have a conference to decide on what is doctrine of OSAS and what is not, because I have read many times from one of your own lifelong 49 years agoing teachers, that your sins cannot be seen by God, because of the blood of the Lamb of God.

 

[robert derrick]

You forgot the part in the law on the day of atonement.

The blood was splattered on the ark. So God could not see the charges against the people.

While yes, He sees our personal sins.

What he does not see, Is what condemned us..

Thats called redemption.

You are saying that your sins are covered by the blood, though yet still committed and seen of God from time to time, but God will not pass judgment upon your soul for those sins?

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

While yes, He sees our personal sins.

You OSAS people need to have a conference to decide on what is doctrine of OSAS and what is not, because I have read many times from one of your own lifelong 49 years agoing teachers, that your sins cannot be seen by God, because of the blood of the Lamb of God.

we did have a conference, and the report of that conference was released in 1646. Its called the Westminster Confession along with the longer and short catechisms. You should read it. You’ll actually learn what true theology is.

Confession and Catechisms: The Orthodox Presbyterian Church

 

[Aries]

Jesus’ death was only about our salvation. Nowhere does it grant you anything such as healing or prosperity. If you think it does, provide scripture that says it does. You talk like one of them charismatic types. :

Greetings,

You stated that Jesus only died for salvation and I said that included healing and you requested scripture refences that indicated Jesus died for healing.

Apologies if this is a bit long.

I am unsure of your denominational doctrine or you’re teaching.

But born agains believe when Adam and Eve transgressed in the garden of Eden there were a number of consequences that followed.

1. There relationship with God was severed.

2. There fellowship with God was severed

3. Their bodies were subject to a sinful nature

4. Their bodies were subject to sickness

5. Their bodies were subject to death

6. Serpent cursed but informed his seed would try to destroy Eve’s seed but Eve’s seed would crush him revealing Goods plan to restore and reconcile mankind.

7. Eve informed she would have increased labour pains and Adam would rule over her

8. Adam informed he would have to work and provide of himself

9. Dominion was transferred to the devil

10.Devil becomes the god of this world

11.Now there is the kingdom of darkness

12.Their bodies were subject to demon possession

13.God said they knew the difference between good and evil

14.They were kicked out of the paradise.

There are over 50 scripture references to healing, 50 scripture references to delivering people 60 scripture references to prosperity and 34 scripture references to provision.

I didn’t copy and paste them as they would have just taken up a lot of unnecessary space.

When i use the word prosperity i really mean provision but when i refer to the additional 3 provisions it can become confusing that’s why i just use the word prosperity which then gives it the traditional reputation of the prosperity gospel.

Just clarifying that.

The 3 scriptures that born agains believe are in reference to healing included in the death resurrection and atonement of Jesus are the folowing.

Isaiah 53:5

But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

Matthew 8:16–17

When the even was come, they brought unto him many that were possessed with devils: and he cast out the spirits with his word, and healed all that were sick:

That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying, Himself took our infirmities, and bare our sicknesses.

1 Peter 2:24.

Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

Ephesians 1.3
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

When the body of Jesus was scoured and whipped by the roman soldiers before he was crucified born agains believe these 3 scriptures are in reference to that event.

You are 100 percent correct and born agains agree when Jesus was crucified his blood was shed to redeem mankind and provide them with salvation.

When Jesus died and rose again his atonement didn’t just save humanity it also provided other provisions to meet the needs of people so they would never lack or go without.

The death resurrection and atonement of Jesus restored and reconciled humanity back to God and when a person is born again.

1. Their relationship with God was severed.

They can have a personal relationship with Jesus.

2. Their fellowship with God was severed.

They can refellowship with God again.

3. Their bodies were subject to a sinful nature.

Their sins can be forgiven.

4. Their bodies were subject to sickness.

They can be healed.

5. Their bodies were subject to death.

They can have eternal life.

6. Serpent cursed but informed his seed would try to destroy Eve’s seed but Eve’s seed would crush him revealing Goods plan to restore and reconcile mankind.

Jesus said it is finished and fulfilled Gods will for mankind

7. Eve informed she would have increased labour pains and Adam would rule over her.

Unsure about the one.

8. Adam informed he would have to work and provide of himself.

God provides for his people.

9. Dominion was transferred to the devil.

Authority and Dominion returned back to the body of Christ.

10.Devils becomes the god of this world.

Jesus defeated satan and stripped him of his power.

11.Now there is the kingdom of darkness.

People are transferred to the kingdom of light.

12.Their bodies were subject to demon possession.

Jesus can set people free.

13.God said they knew the difference between good and evil.

You can fulfill the desires of the flesh or walk in the Spirit.

14.They were kicked out of the paradise.

You have the opportunity to enter the kingdom of heaven.

Now there are over 20,000 different denominations with 20,000 different points of views.

This is just one point of view.

You don’t have to agree with it.

But I have been candid and open about it with you.

Peace.

 

[Aries]

Its not the same

God promised to heal us from our spiritual sickness, Which he did, Its called justification.

He never promised physical healing. Except to promote his plan.

Why do you wish so much to reject eternal life. And promote conditional life. As if you could save yourself. Jesus said only those who become poor in spirit will inherit the kingdom. Not those who work their whole life at being righteous people.

Greetings,

We have different perspectives and different teachings what I find more reliable than our doctrines and interpretation of scriptures is the actual results.

Now if one denomination believes that Christians cannot be occupied by demon spirits after they have been born again, baptised in water, and baptized in the Spirit as an example.

Then 100 percent around that world regardless of another denomination’s doctrine or beliefs Christians in their fellowships shouldn’t not be able to be occupied by demon spirits based on the other denominations interpretations of scriptures correct.

However, regardless of that denominations scriptural claims that Christians cannot be occupied by demon spirits Christians are testifying, they are being set free from demon spirits contradicting that denomination’s interpretation of scripture and where does that leave that denominations credibility to translate scripture.

Curry Blake is a pastor born in 1959 in the USA who began studying the ministry of John G Lake who was born in 1870-1935 he reported through his ministry over 100,000 documented healings.

Pastor Curry Blake researched John G Lakes ministry and continues to teach healing to Christians and Curry Blake testified that when his daughter fell out the window of their home and died, he commanded her body to come back to life over a 45-60 mins time frame and she eventually came back to life.

Now you don’t have to believe any of that, but all his material is on you tube his number is available for people to call him personally and he has witnessed over 100,000 healings himself.

Now if physical healing was not available today as you said according to your understanding of scripture

Pastor Curry Blake will talk to you directly and invite you to confirm that people are sick and you can witness the healings yourself.

One thing that always comforts me is no matter how much a denomination interprets scripture or structures its doctrine that never stops God from meeting people’s needs.

God doesn’t contradict his word but the results contradict people’s interpretation of his word.

Which then become evidence that people have to explain.

Peace.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Greetings,

We have different perspectives and different teachings what I find more reliable than our doctrines and interpretation of scriptures is the actual results.

Now if one denomination believes that Christians cannot be occupied by demon spirits after they have been born again, baptised in water, and baptized in the Spirit as an example.

Then 100 percent around that world regardless of another denomination’s doctrine or beliefs Christians in their fellowships shouldn’t not be able to be occupied by demon spirits based on the other denominations interpretations of scriptures correct.

However, regardless of that denominations scriptural claims that Christians cannot be occupied by demon spirits Christians are testifying, they are being set free from demon spirits contradicting that denomination’s interpretation of scripture and where does that leave that denominations credibility to translate scripture.

Curry Blake is a pastor born in 1959 in the USA who began studying the ministry of John G Lake who was born in 1870-1935 he reported through his ministry over 100,000 documented healings.

Pastor Curry Blake researched John G Lakes ministry and continues to teach healing to Christians and Curry Blake testified that when his daughter fell out the window of their home and died, he commanded her body to come back to life over a 45-60 mins time frame and she eventually came back to life.

Now you don’t have to believe any that, but all his material is on you tube his number is available for people to call him personally and he has witnessed over 100,000 healings himself.

Now if physical healing was not available today as you said according to your understanding of scripture

Pastor Curry Blake will talk to you directly and invite you to confirm that people are sick and you can witness the healings yourself.

One thing that always comforts me is no matter how much a denomination interprets scripture or structures its doctrine that never stops God from meeting people’s needs.

God doesn’t contradict his word but the results contradict people’s interpretation of his word.

Which then become evidence that people have to explain.

Peace.

I never claimed physical healing was not possible

so I am not sure what your trying to say here

 

[robert derrick]

we did have a conference, and the report of that conference was released in 1646. Its called the Westminster Confession along with the longer and short catechisms. You should read it. You’ll actually learn what true theology is.

Confession and Catechisms: The Orthodox Presbyterian Church

I will. But in the meantime, does God see your personal sins or not. What say you?

 

[robert derrick]

But know that the LORD hath set apart him that is godly for himself: the LORD will hear when I call unto him.

Stand in awe, and sin not: commune with your own heart upon your bed, and be still. Selah.

The secret to success of going to sin no more, which is commanded in the old and the new covenants:

The evening and the morning were the first day.

Upon the bed at night, especially in the middle, is when God has us entirely unto Himself, to deal with our hearts, and put commitment of faith in our souls to do accordingly that day.

It is not about vain promises for the 'rest of our lives', but only by today is the day I will do it and not be double minded about it, but prove the faith of Jesus as sufficient for obedience in all things.

Commit thy works unto the LORD, and thy thoughts shall be established.

Our thoughts are inspired in the evening, our works are committed in the day, and our thoughts are established in the evening from the works of the day.

Being saved is the daily evening and morning cycle of hear and obey, and so eternal salvation is for them that are for the doers of the word and no hearers only.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

While yes, He sees our personal sins.

You OSAS people need to have a conference to decide on what is doctrine of OSAS and what is not, because I have read many times from one of your own lifelong 49 years agoing teachers, that your sins cannot be seen by God, because of the blood of the Lamb of God.

you need to remember, when it comes to almost every doctrine. Even then not everyone believes the same.

If you want to know what someone believes. It is best to ask them, and not just assume.

when you blindly attack osas not knowing what people actually believe, it hurts everyone.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You are saying that your sins are covered by the blood, though yet still committed and seen of God from time to time, but God will not pass judgment upon your soul for those sins?

Is God going to come die again?

Thats what happened in the OT. The high priest went in once a year and offered the atoning sacrifice. Then they started over, until next year. when he did it again, every year doing the same thing.

How many times will christ need to die on the cross for redemption?

 

[robert derrick]

Is God going to come die again?

Thats what happened in the OT. The high priest went in once a year and offered the atoning sacrifice. Then they started over, until next year. when he did it again, every year doing the same thing.

How many times will christ need to die on the cross for redemption?

So, I'll take that as a yes.

You are equalizing the blood of bulls and goats with that of the Lamb of God, but only making the blood of the Lamb as a one time only thing.

OSAS depth of degradation to justify ongoing sins teaches an imperfect OT relationship with God for an equally imperfect NT doctrine of Christ.

Like the blood of bulls and goats, the blood of the Lamb only 'covers' sins, so that God would not judge the sins.

OSAS rejects the blood of the Lamb to wash away sins, so that no judgment can be made against that soul thoroughly cleansed by Him.

OSAS covers themselves with the blood of the Lamb of God like a goat: the sins remain, but are covered, so that God cannot see judging them.

OSAS keeps a soul spotted with sins of the world like the OT saints, but without the need of a high priest offering blood of bulls and goats yearly, because the blood of their lamb did it once: not to wash away sins and cleanse the soul white as snow, but to cover their sins from sight of God's judgment, with no more need of a temporal high priest, and all that bleeding messiness.

Hide thy face from my sins, and blot out all mine iniquities.

They want God to hide His face from their sins as in days of old by blood of bulls and goats, but they do not want to have all there sins blotted out by the blood of the Lamb, because then they would have no more excuse for their sins.

OSAS defiles the blood of the Lamb of God by making it only as effective as the blood of a goat: it covers sins only, but does not wash sins away.

Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.

The blood the Lamb of God washes way sins, so that the unspotted soul is made white as snow: washed white.

OSAS blood of another lamb only covers sins, so that the soul is still spotted with sins, but with sins seen white as snow: white washed.

If ye be willing and obedient, ye shall eat the good of the land.

The main difference between OSAS hypocrisy and sincere honesty of an elect saint in Christ is one of willingness: OSAS is not even willing to consider obeying Christ in all things, but rather proclaims it impossible and condemns it as 'antithetical' to Scripture.

No wonder they have no problem in willingly sinning from time to time without guilt of sin, to put Christ to an open shame, while treading upon His precious and incorruptible blood, which they count as no more good for washing clean than that of a bull or a goat.

Elect saints know it is necessary for their souls' sake to obey Him in all things, and so pray continually for a willing and obedient heart.

Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me.

Eternal salvation is only for them that obey Him, who are willing to be made obedient in all things to Him.

Eternal salvation is not for them that obey and disobey Him, because they are unwilling to be made obedient in all things. They consider that to be hardship of a cruel taskmaster.

 

[robert derrick]

There is always one or two Scriptures that ends all dispute of doctrine of God, and they are usually the most obvious ones staring us in the face:

Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners.

Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment, nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous.

God's people are not sinners, and sinners are not God's people.

There are no Scriptures speaking of saved and redeemed sinners, but only of saved and redeemed saints in Christ Jesus.

Those falling all over themselves to call themselves sinners, in most humble fashion, never ever refer to themselves as saints.

How can them that say they are as depraved as any sinner in the world ever refer to themselves as the righteous?

They even accuse the chiefest of the apostles as claiming to have been the chiefest of sinners during His apostleship.

Paul was not the apostle of sinners, but rather was the apostle of the saints, questioning how any that are called to be saints, can possibly continue in sins in this present world.

Sinners say they can. God does not.

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

There is always one or two Scriptures that ends all dispute of doctrine of God, and they are usually the most obvious ones staring us in the face:

Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners.

Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment, nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous.

God's people are not sinners, and sinners are not God's people.

There are no Scriptures speaking of saved and redeemed sinners, but only of saved and redeemed saints in Christ Jesus.

Those falling all over themselves to call themselves sinners, in most humble fashion, never ever refer to themselves as saints.

How can them that say they are as depraved as any sinner in the world ever refer to themselves as the righteous?

They even accuse the chiefest of the apostles as claiming to have been the chiefest of sinners during His apostleship.

Paul was not the apostle of sinners, but rather was the apostle of the saints, questioning how any that are called to be saints, can possibly continue in sins in this present world.

Sinners say they can. God does not.

wow! There is so much wrong with your last 2 comments, i’m not sure where to start, but bear with me as i attempt to correct a few things for you.
1. You are a sinner. We all are. You cannot stop sinning.
2. Jesus death on the cross was atonement for the elect, those chosen by the Father Himself, to be saved from hell.
3. The majority of mankind will end up going to hell.
4. OSAS is Biblical, therefore truth.
5. All of mankind is depraved.
6. While we should strive to not sin, you cannot stop it. no true christian willingly sins. True christians dont plan sin, they merely fall into it. Big difference.
7. you sinned today.
8. You will sin tomorrow.
9. God already knows every sin we will (future tense) ever do.
10. The blood of Jesus paid for our sins. When He forgives us of our sin, He forgives completely, totally, as far as the east is from the west. Its as if that sin never happened.

ok thats enough for now. I cant wait to read your response to this.

 

[robert derrick]

wow! There is so much wrong with your last 2 comments, i’m not sure where to start, but bear with me as i attempt to correct a few things for you.
1. You are a sinner. We all are. You cannot stop sinning.
2. Jesus death on the cross was atonement for the elect, those chosen by the Father Himself, to be saved from hell.
3. The majority of mankind will end up going to hell.
4. OSAS is Biblical, therefore truth.
5. All of mankind is depraved.
6. While we should strive to not sin, you cannot stop it. no true christian willingly sins. True christians dont plan sin, they merely fall into it. Big difference.
7. you sinned today.
8. You will sin tomorrow.
9. God already knows every sin we will (future tense) ever do.
10. The blood of Jesus paid for our sins. When He forgives us of our sin, He forgives completely, totally, as far as the east is from the west. Its as if that sin never happened.

ok thats enough for now. I cant wait to read your response to this.

You are a sinner. We all are. You cannot stop sinning.

Speak for yourself.

Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners.

Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment, nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous.

I'll not repent of the righteousness of God to go and sin no more, for a proud lifelong card-carrying sinner such as yourself.

 

[robert derrick]

to be saved from hell.

Sinners think they are saved from judgment of their sins and hell.

And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

Saints are saved from their sins, so that there is now no condemnation for sins.

 

[farouk]

I am familiar with the difference between needs and wants.

I love the words of the hymn:

"Fear Him, ye saints, and you will then
Have nothing else to fear;
Make you His service your delight,
Your wants shall be His care."

 

[robert derrick]

wow! There is so much wrong with your last 2 comments.

Only sinners would be shocked and think there is so much wrong with being saved from sins, rather than 'saved' in sins from judgment of sins.

 

[robert derrick]

All of mankind is depraved.

Especially OSAS sinners.