Satanism : As Calvinism <> TULIP

[Ritajanice]

This is part four of our series studying the differences between Calvinism and Arminianism. Please note that this is only a brief overview of a vast topic. A thorough discussion of this topic can (and often has) filled many books. At the conclusion of the series I will provide a list of helpful resources should you wish to pursue this study further.

Today we turn our attention to a comparison of the two views. I present this as a “quick and dirty” summary of the opposing views. Remember that not all Calvinists hold to all of the points I have listed below. Similarly, not all Arminians believe all of the points below.

Free Will​

• The fall has seriously affected humans but has not left them completely spiritually helpless.
• Man is not enslaved to his nature
• Man has the ability to choose for or against God. Man can choose either good or evil as his will dictates.
• The Spirit assists man as he develops faith.
• Faith is man’s act and a gift to God

Total Depravity​

• The fall has left man completely unable to respond to God in any way. Man is spiritually dead.
• Man is enslaved to his nature
• Man has free will within the bounds of his nature. Since man is in a fallen state, he can never choose for God unless the Spirit has first regenerated him.
• The Spirit regenerates man and then gives him the faith Christ secured.
• Faith is God’s act and a gift to man

Conditional Election​

• God chose certain people before the foundation of the world based on seeing that in the future they would respond to His call.
• Election is conditional on God seeing who would choose Him.
• The final cause of salvation is man choosing God.

Unconditional Election​

• God chose certain people before the foundation of the world for His own reasons and not based on seeing who would respond to His call.
• Election is unconditional. God simply chose some and not others.
• The final cause of salvation is God choosing man.

Unlimited Atonement​

• Christ’s death achieved the potential for man to be saved.
• Christ died for every person who ever lived, but only saves those who believe.
• Christ’s death secured the potential for salvation and did not secure faith (which is man’s work)

Limited Atonement​

• Christ’s death effectually saved the elect.
• Christ’s death was only for the elect and not for the entire human race.
• Christ’s death secured salvation and faith

Obstructable Grace​

• God never forces salvation upon anyone.
• The Spirit woos people but they are free to accept or reject Him.
• Faith allows the Spirit to do His work in man

Irresistible Grace​

• God gives the gift of salvation to His elect and they have no choice but to respond.
• The Spirit regenerates people who are then given faith and must repent.
• The Spirit does His work based on who God has predestined to eternal life

Falling From Grace​

• Because salvation is ultimately dependent on man, he can reject his salvation.

Perseverance of the Saints​

• Because salvation is ultimately dependent on God, man can never lose salvation

As you see, the process of a person becoming saved is vastly different in each of the views. I have created a chart for each of the views to try to simplify the differences between them.

 

[Behold]

This is part four of our series studying the differences between Calvinism and Arminianism. Please note that this is only a brief overview of a vast topic. A thorough discussion of this topic can (and often has) filled many books. At the conclusion of the series I will provide a list of helpful resources should you wish to pursue this study further.

God never called a CHRISTian, to lead people to CALVIN and "TULIP".

I realize that you are unable to stop., as that is what this doctrine of devils, causes its disciple to have to try to do.
Its that compulsion you have...

However, its good that the readers here, and MODS... who are not mentally trapped by this Satanic Theology, see that the Calvinist, can't stop trying to sell Calvinism and Hyper Calvinism (TULIP)... to them.

 

[Ritajanice]

I think @Ronald Nolette is a 5 point Calvinist, are you Ronald?..not sure that you are?

How about you @Scott Downey ,are you a Calvinist ? No worries if you would rather not answer.

 

[Behold]

I think @Ronald Nolette is a 5 point Calvinist, are you Ronald?..not sure that you are?

How about you @Scott Downey ,are you a Calvinist ? No worries if you would rather not answer.

Perhaps they are not in the mood to try to help you Sell Calvinism and the "5 points" (TULIP) to the other forum members, right now.

A.) God make CHRISTians

Calvin makes Calvinists, who then eventually become Hyper Calvinists, or as you just defined them... "5 Point"...(TULIP)...= sellers.

 

[Ritajanice]

Just trying to discuss the 5 points of Calvin, that is all..I await those who are more versed in Calvin’s understanding or scripture than I am.

I’ve just started to read TULIP in depth, then check out what he has to say with scripture.

This resonates with my spirit .

rresistible Grace​

• God gives the gift of salvation to His elect and they have no choice but to respond.
• The Spirit regenerates people who are then given faith and must repent.
• The Spirit does His work based on who God has predestined to eternal life

 

[Ritajanice]

The Spirit regenerates people who are then given faith and must repent.

The first part I agree with..we aren’t given faith, not until we have repented, so, I disagree with Calvin there.

You can’t have God given faith, not until one has repented first, otherwise they would have been given the gift of Faith, while still in their sins, which would be impossible...,all imo of course.

 

[Behold]

Just trying to discuss the 5 points of Calvin, that is all..I await those who are more versed in Calvin’s understanding or scripture than I am.

Calvin makes Calvinists.

God does not.

This is why its called CALVINISM and "5 Points".....and not CHRISTianity.

 

[Bruce-Leiter]

Ok Great.
I'll just open the verses.......as that will be more helpful..
It'll have to be a 2 part post.

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1.) And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;


The first thing to realize, is that Paul is addressing/teaching born again Christians.. so, he's reflecting on their Status as "in Christ".
So, the term "quickened" is a beautiful KJV word that is speaking about the initial birth of the spirit, within a Believer.
To be "quickened" can also mean, to be enlightened... so in that case, the HS will enlighten an unbeliever, so that they have the revelation that they are a sinner, needing a Savior.

Also, when a Teacher like me teaches, the HS will "quicken" a student of the word......like this..
They will have a realization while im them showing them something........"oh i SEE THAT".., and what is more common is that inside them, its as if they "always understood that", yet the never did before...
And that is the HS "quickening" by revelation... a Truth, a Doctrine, inside the Student.

And of course ... this eternal quickening.... = which is when the unbeliever takes a step of faith, now that they have the revelation of the "knowledge of the Truth", after hearing the Gospel, and now they are "quickened"... enlightened.....by the HS.... and then if they place their FAITH in Christ... And then the HS will eternally quicken them spiritually, which is to birth them into God "who is A Spirit"., as born again.

So, the quickening is both the initial revelation of the Gospel as TRUE,, or its the sudden revelation of something in the word of God that is made alive in you..... and then most importantly... its the actual birthing of the spirit in the BELIEVER, is the "quickening".

And Paul is explaining that before all this happens.. all of us were dead in our sins..

This "dead" means we were not joined to GOD, as that is spiritual death, as you find it initially with Adam.. .when God told Him that he would DIE, if he ate that fruit.
And that "DEATH", is 2 fold.......and one of the understandings is symbolic but real,..... and the other is literal.

So, to "DIE", or to be dead in your sins, means that there is a separation from God, who is LIFE. So when we are born again, we are made ALIVE... having now received Eternal Life, which is God's Life.. .and when we are not born again, we dont have that, so the Bible defines this as "death".
This means that when we are born again, we are restored into that spiritual union with God that is our Eternal Life., and if this never happens then the person remains in that separation from God's LIFE, and that is "death".. and that is why the never born again who die, are referred to as being in the 2nd Death.....and that means that their eternal separation that was their first death.. has now been sealed for all eternity, because you can't be born again, after you die... = 2nd Death.

See, God is Eternal, and that means His LIFE is Eternal, and that very life, that very spiritual union with God that is Eternal Life, was lost by Adam, and that is a DEATH, symbolically tho Literal., .. it the disconnect between Adam's spirit and God's, and that is "death", which is the absence of God's Eternal Life, and that is ALL OF US in that situation, until we are BORN... Again, now having Eternal Life, now being restored to Spiritual Union with God.

So, when Adam rebelled... Adam's body died, and that is the LITERAL death, of the body.. , and his Spiritual Death happened and that is also a "death", which is to become separated from God's Spirit, WHO is our Eternal LIFE...

So there are 2 deaths, that Adam achieved for us all....... Spiritual, and Literal., and Christ went to The Cross to UNDO that, for us.. so that By Jesus Stripes we were healed....both Spiritually NOW< and later, we get a NEW Body that will never die, that is designed for our born again Spirit.

Reader,
When we are born again, the Spiritual Death that we existed within, that is to have no spiritual union with God, who is Eternal Life, is RESTORED.. and that is what it means to be BORN AGAIN.
However, our "body is dead because of sin", right now.... and isn't restored at new birth.. But later, we get a NEW BODY, AS THIS is a part of "The Gift of Salvation".


2) Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

So, here... Paul is just expanding the understanding of what we were doing when we were in our Sin, not born again.
And notice He says.."the Spirit that works in the children of Disobedience'.

That is the Devil's nature, as the Devil's nature is the SIN Nature.

Those are the unbelievers.......WE were once those children.. and that "spirit" is the adamic nature that is literally the nature of the Devil.. and before we became God's, we were this....>>"" YOU are of YOUR FATHER, the DEVIL, and the LUSTS of your FATHER you shall do".. See that? That is the : "children of disobedience".. that is an unbeliever, never born again. That was us ALL, before we trusted in Christ and were born again.
When we are born again, we become a "new creation in Christ" and we now have a NEW Spiritual Father, who is "Our Father who art in Heaven".
The father of all unbelievers, never born again, is the Devil.
So, when we are born again, we have changed Spiritual Fathers.

See that?
And that is why Jesus told you, that you "MUST be born again"........ or you will remain a child of the Devil.


3.) Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

This is more of the same, as ive just explained....so, no need to be redundant. Paul is just expanding the same previous concept.


4.) But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,

Two of the attributes of God's heart and personality is "mercy" and "love".

God is Love.
Salvation is Mercy
Grace is Mercy


5.) Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)

This is explained by another verse Paul wrote... so lets compare "scripture with scripture"..

"God commendeth His Love toward us, in that while we were STILL (Yet) sinners, Christ died for us"..

Another verse by Paul that defines it is....>"To Those who worketh not ...but believe in God who JUSTIFIES THE UNGODLY, our/their FAITH.....is counted (by God), as (Christ's) Righteousness", = that is imputed unto them...


6.) And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

This is explaining that the born again Spirit, that is the REAL YOU, (not your body), is now "in Christ" and "one with God"... and that is why the born again are defined as "seated in Heavenly Places"... With THEM.
This is another way of explaining that the born again are "translated from DARKNESS... to LIGHT".
Its simply telling us that our born again Spirit is now Joined to God and Christ and exists in the KOG., as they are the KOG and all the born again are "in Christ" and "one with God".

What you say is all biblical, and we agree, Behold! The points of the passage can be easily summarized by the following: We were born physically dead to God (what I describe as "spiritually stillborn"--verses 1-3), God has made us alive to him by grace through his free gift of faith (verses 4-9), and he then empowers us to do good works that he has prepared for us to do (verse 10). All the credit goes to him, none to us, for his amazing, saving power, though we are responsible if we do not accept his gifts.

 

[Behold]

God has made us alive to him by grace through his free gift of faith

God does not make anyone alive by the "gift of Faith'

God makes someone alive by the Holy Spirit birthing them spiritually.

So, God does not cause anyone to have Faith in Christ.
What God does is offer Jesus as your Savior, and then the HS reveals this to your heart as "truth".. And then you decide what you are going to do with that Truth.

Will you put YOUR FAITH, in Christ ????......or will you wait.??........or will you never?

Let me show you something reader..

2 of the most heartbreaking situations found in HELL.........are regarding the people who "knew it was true".. "I knew to trust in Christ, but i wanted to wait until i got OLDER"..... and they died young., and now they are in Hell, and they KNEW TO BELIEVE.... but WAITED.

Another sad situation is.....>>"But i was told that the water washed away my sin...".....and it didnt., and they found this out in Hell.

 

[Bruce-Leiter]

Part 2.

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7) . That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

The bible is a book of progressive revelation..
its this..... "God is doing this with Mankind, and its being Revealed" in the bible,.... as well as what is happening to man, and will happen next"..
And part of that revelation is that God foreknew that Man would fall, and he had already prepared in his Foreknowledge the solution for that "lost" situation.
= This is The Cross of Christ, as this is where God meets Man, through the redemption that is found as the Sacrifice of Christ that is the Eternal resolution of the sin of the world, one believer at a time, by FAITH.
See, The Cross of Christ has paid for man's fall, man's sin..all of it..2000 yrs ago......but, its conditioned on "FAITH in Christ" which releases God's plan of Salvation upon each believer.
SALVATION through Christ is an OFFER from God, to the World... John 3;16, and to have it, is to RECEIVE it by Faith.
When you Take Christ by Faith, .. God take you for eternity.
He wont force you to believe, and He will never let you go, once you do give Him YOUR Faith, in Christ.


8.) For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

This verse trips a lot of weak Bible students right into a Theological ditch, because they read it, not understanding God's Grace.

So, the verse is saying that the gift of God, is= ... the GRACE that saved you... by Faith..
Thats the Gift...Its God's Grace that accepts you based on your faith.

YOUR "faith is counted by God, as (Christ's) Righteousness.

God is not looking for His faith, He's looking for YOURS as you are the BELIEVER< or not.
YOU Choose that., or not, and God honors your choice all the way to Heaven, or all way to Hell.

Welcome to your Free Will.. use it wisely. .. CHOOSE to believe in Christ, before you die.

So..
the Calvinist and other heretics, read it incorrectly as... "the faith is the gift".
But Faith is not the Gift....The Gift is God's Mercy.. The Gift is God's GRACE.
So, this one verse, has been used by Heretics for a very long time... to create many false Theologies.

Just remember that its the GRACE of God, The Mercy of God that is the Gift, and not the Faith.


9) . Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Here is a verse that destroys any religious persons self righteousness... As a religious person, both lost and born again, who doesn't understand that Salvation is a FREE GIFT........will put themselves under a SELF Righteous yoke of performing for God, to try to STAY SAVED.
That is defined as : LEGALISM.
And there are many ways this SELF Righteousness, manifests as false theology.

The simple way to understand Legalism, is that the person is trying to save themselves, or keep themselves saved.
And they wil have a LIST of Do's and Don't do's, that they are trying to obey, as that is their FAITH.
Its in themselves.. its in their self effort... vs, faith in Christ alone.
So, when you are that one, you have no faith in Christ, you only have faith that you have to work to try to not lose your Salvation.
You are a self saver......and This is Broken Faith, or No Faith at all., in Christ.



10.) For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.


The born again, are "new Creations".. who have become "the Temple of the Holy Spirit."
That is how we are become "God's Workmanship".
So, God has REMADE you, from the Inside ... by restoring your relationship to Himself, in Spiritual Union.
This means that "God who is A Spirit" has performed a remarkable WORK, that is the BIRTH of the SPIRIT within a BELIEVER, back into Himself, as Salvation... And that WORK....restores the BELIEVER bcak into SONSHIP with God, as Adam had it, before he threw it away in rebellion.

Respectfully, Behold, you are reading a lot into verse seven that really isn't there. In verse eight, the gift is faith as God's gift by his grace, that is, his free acceptance. If God didn't give us faith, we can boast that we came to believe, that is, decided to trust in Jesus. But Paul says we have nothing to boast about. The question is clear, does God give us faith or do we come up with it and thus can brag about having it? These verses clearly say that we have nothing to brag about, including faith, because God raises us from the dead with the new birth, gives us the ability to trust in him freely, and empowers us to do good actions for his praise.

 

[Ritajanice]

God brings our spirit Alive ,when he gifts us the supernatural faith to believe in his Son ,it comes by divine heart revelation.

You can only know Jesus in your spirit, why, because we have been Born Of God’s seed..a Living supernatural seed..that works in our heart, making us into Jesus image, the Spirit works in us, from the inside out.

We represent the Spirit of Christ and Glorify His Name.

 

[Behold]

Respectfully, Behold, you are reading a lot into verse seven that really isn't there. In verse eight, the gift is faith as God's gift by his grace,

God does not "gift" anyone to be able to Believe.

God requires the Faith that you have, as "God hath given to every person, the measure of Faith".... to be given to Christ one you have "come to the knowledge of the Truth".

This "coming to the knowledge".. is not God causing you to believe the Gospel.. its God's Holy Spirit revealing that the Gospel is The Truth to your heart.

You are "drawn" to this revelation, and then you decide if you will take a step of faith, or not.

 

[Bruce-Leiter]

God does not "gift" anyone to be able to Believe.

God requires the Faith that you have, as "God hath given to every person, the measure of Faith".... to be given to Christ one you have "come to the knowledge of the Truth".

This "coming to the knowledge".. is not God causing you to believe the Gospel.. its God's Holy Spirit revealing that the Gospel is The Truth to your heart.

You are "drawn" to this revelation, and then you decide if you will take a step of faith, or not.

For the first sixteen years of my life, I was a Pharisaical unbeliever who thought that I could measure up to God';s requirements by obedience to my parents and teachers. But God led me through a reasoning process within the Scriptures to convince me that he was real, Jesus was the only way to the Father, and that the Bible is the Word of God. We are not created puppets or robots, but when God resurrects us and gives us faith, he has all my honor, because I couldn't have done it without his influence and guidance every step of the way through all my 82 years.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I think @Ronald Nolette is a 5 point Calvinist, are you Ronald?..not sure that you are?

How about you @Scott Downey ,are you a Calvinist ? No worries if you would rather not answer.

I am a five pointer. As for the rest of Calvins theology, I can't say whether it is biblical or not. I do know the five points are very biblical.

 

[Ritajanice]

I am a five pointer. As for the rest of Calvins theology, I can't say whether it is biblical or not. I do know the five points are very biblical.

Yes, thank you.

 

[Behold]

God resurrects us and gives us faith, he has all my

You said that "God resurrects us" and then "gives us faith".

However...God can't give you the new birth... (born again // resurrected)... until He forgives all your sin.

So, if He resurrected you before you had faith.....then God would have joined Himself to you spiritually (born again)... before you were forgiven your sin.

Now...Here is the issue.

A sinner, can't be joined to God.. cant be born again, .. before they are cleansed, forgiven... all their sin...first.

So, when TULIP and CALVINISM, teaches that the person is born again, to then have faith.........then that means they had no faith, and were "resurrected" (born again) = in their Sin.. not yet forgiven.. to then have Faith.

That means, that when you teach that you are "born again" (Resurrected)... so that i could THEN "have faith".. then the person is teaching that they were joined to God by new birth, before they had any faith and while they were not yet forgiven.

That's impossible.
Why?

Because God can't join Himself to a person has has SIN.., and the reason you give God your faith, initially, is to be forgiven....your sin.
He has to have that from you, before He can FORGIVE YOU< and then give you the New Birth.
Faith, does not come after all this...it precedes. it.
A SINNER... has to be FORGIVEN their Sin, and THEN the new birth (resurrected) can be caused by the Holy Spirit.

So, they have to give their FAITH in Christ to GOD... initially....(first).....and then God forgives their sin... and then next.. God gives them the new birth by joining Himself to them, spiritually.

Forgiveness of sin, has to occur before the "born again" can occur, and you have to give God your FAITH, as that is WHY he then forgive you and then gives you the new birth.
So, FAITH comes FIRST........not after you are resurrected., as otherwise, God wont forgive your sins, initially.

So, this teaching that "i was born again to THEN BELIEVE", is teaching that God joined HImself to the unforgiven sinner, and THEN they had "faith" to believe., is not True.

 

[Ritajanice]

Do you believe this @Ronald Nolette .

There have been discussions about whether faith precedes repentance or repentance precedes faith in various expressions of Reformed theology. For Calvin, however, faith comes and repentance follows. Repentance is born of faith

 

[Behold]

I am a five pointer. As for the rest of Calvins theology, I can't say whether it is biblical or not. I do know the five points are very biblical.

Calvin and the Hyper-Calvinism 5-points are just that.....and nothing else.

They are not of God or the Holy Spirit.

It all originated from a demonized Man, who you identify with, because you are His Disciple.
And 5-Pt, Hyper-Calvinism, is just the evolution of the original doctrine of Devils, by other deceived disciple of this one DEVIL.


Calvin "pre-destined" what isnt., and that is the root rot of his Doctrine of Devils., and the hyper-Calvinists, just do it more.


They read this...

"Christ came to seek and save that which is Lost", and their Calvinism Mental Blindness then rewrites that as....>>"Christ came to call only the predestined elect".

or they read this..

"For God so loved the WORLD, that He Gave His only begotten Son, and WHOSOEVER Believes in Him".....

And the deceived TULIP Calvinist reads it like this......."For God so loved the pre-destined elect, that He sent Jesus to save only them,"


And on and on, these deceived people do that with every verse that teaches that God's Cross is given to US ALL..... because that is what CALVIN and TULIP does to your MIND, after it owns it.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Calvin makes Calvinists.

God does not.

This is why its called CALVINISM and "5 Points".....and not CHRISTianity.

The bible makes one beliee in what has been dubbed "the five points of Calvinism". Why? Because that is merely a name assigned to five biblical points that teach on the subjectg. Just like soteriology is a name given to teh verses that deal with salvation etc.

Calvin lives in your brain rent free!!!

 

[Ronald Nolette]

"Christ came to seek and save that which is Lost", and their Calvinism Mental Blindness then rewrites that as....>>"Christ came to call only the predestined elect".

So you are a universalist then for if Jesus came to seek and save that which is lost, as all men are lost and Jesus doesn't lie- then all men must be saved using your warped logic.