Satan was right? Egads!

[Hidden In Him]

Sorry for causing any bad feelings. I should have been more charitable. I can do that if I choose (I really am born again :)), but I chose to cause contention instead. So I ended up learning a lot from these threads. Forgive me my indiscretion. I'm comforted that Jesus, sitting at the right had of the Father, has. Grace, grace, grace!

God bless you brothers and sisters.

LoL.

In the future, Rich, it might be a good idea not to start threads with the words "Satan was right" in them. Ha Ha!!

 

[TLHKAJ]

I'm absolutely 100% sure the scriptures are true and mean exactly what they say.

 

[DavidB]

AJ are you seriously 100% sure of your answer? Have you read the context surrounding this verse?
Pulling out a scripture verse and stamping it Jesus is God or whatever you want it to say, in lights, is easy to do. I would not be satisfied until I can prove it to myself with some 'beef' to show or explain the logic behind this bold statement?

Yes Yahshua a few verses on (Rev 1:17) is called 'the first and the last' for a very good reason. And even further in this Book he is also called 'the Alpha and Omega" for another good reason, and not the LORD God Almighty for obvious reasons.

The verse of Revelation 1:8 is reserved solely for the Father of Yahshua only, and for a good reason.

Revelation 1:8
“I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty.” (NIV)

The front end or the beginning book end or compliment to verse 1:8 are verses 1:4 and 5

Revelation 1:4 and 5 reads: “Grace and peace to you from him who is, and who was, and who is to come, and from the seven spirits before his throne, AND from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth.” The separation between “the one who was, is and is to come” and Christ can be clearly seen. The one “who is, and who was and who is to come” is God. (NIV)

Isn't it obvious that we are addressing here first, the LORD God Almighty AND then his Son Jesus Christ in the process of introductions? Christ is noted as the faithful witness to these events only in this introduction as the first born ....etc.

The point you make with Revelation 1:4, 5 puts a clear scriptural end to attempts to apply Revelation 1:8 yet it is rarely referenced. Well done.

 

[TLHKAJ]

The point you make with Revelation 1:4, 5 puts a clear scriptural end to attempts to apply Revelation 1:8 yet it is rarely referenced. Well done.

It does no such thing.

 

[TLHKAJ]

When our Lord appears, He will draw the line between those who believe in Him and those who do not. I'm shaking my head over these denials of Jesus Christ by ones who say they follow Him. I'm placing people on ignore.

 

[DavidB]

It does no such thing.

Revelation 1:8 identifies “the one who is and who was and who is to came as God Almighty, the Alpha and Omega. Verses 4 and 5 is a greeting from “the one who is and who was and who is to come (Almighty God) AND from Jesus Christ. So Jesus Christ cannot be the “one who is and who was and who is coming.” He cannot be God Almighty, the Alpha and Omega. Does that help?

I should add that I totally believe that Jesus is Lord, the Christ, the Messiah, the Son of God, the King of God’s Kingdom. I believe he died for our sins that we might have everlasting life and that faith in him is required to please God.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Being more interested in the scriptures than tradition, I'd be interested in seeing which verse says, "Jesus was God." You know, something as clear as Acts 2:22.

Acts 2:22,

Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:
​

Anywhere that says, "Jesus of Nazareth, God....?"

BTW I can find about 6 other places that specifically calls Jesus a man.

Rom 5:15,

But not as the offence, so also [is] the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, [which is] by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto man​

Acts 17:31,

Because he (God) hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by [that] man (Jesus) whom he hath ordained; [whereof] he hath given assurance unto all [men], in that he hath raised him from the dead.​

1 Tim 2:5,

For [there is] one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;​

John 4:29,

Come, see a man, which told me all things that ever I did: is not this the Christ?
​

If you're thinking of John 20:28, better learn what a "god" meant to the Jews. Just look it up in Strong's. There you will find it basically means anybody with power and authority. Of course Jesus had both. They were given to him by God. Wait...what...one part of God gave another part something it didn't have? How does that work? As 1 Cor 8:5 says, there are many gods, but to us there is but one. That would be the FATHER. Jesus is NOT the father.

1Cor 8:5-6,

5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)​

6 But to us [there is but] one God, the Father, of whom [are] all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom [are] all things, and we by him.​

Again, Jesus is NOT the Father, so he's not God.

“If you have seen Me, you have seen the Father.....I and the Father are One”

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Jesus was 100% man and at the same time, He was 100% God......

Sound crazy? Of course it does.....The puny mind of a man can’t even “ begin” to understand the Trinity...

The ONLY way to understand the Trinity is to be a Third of it—— and we ain’t.

 

[Enoch111]

Being more interested in the scriptures than tradition, I'd be interested in seeing which verse says, "Jesus was God."

As long as you hold to this position, you should stop identifying yourself as "Christian". And you have already been shown the Scriptures which say that Jesus is God. Why did you ignore them? So I will quote just one verse -- I Timothy 3:16 (only in the KJB) which says this:

And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God (Theos) was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

What does it mean when it says "God was manifest in the flesh"? Does it not mean that God took human form? And who was this who took human form when "the Word was made flesh and dwelt among us"? Was it not the Lord Jesus Christ? Jesus of Nazareth, the one who called Himself "I AM"?

So is it fair to conclude that this verse is actually telling you "JESUS IS GOD"? Now if you reject this verse and continue with your heretical nonsense, then the Bible says that you are an "antichrist" and Christians should have no fellowship with you.

 

[DavidB]

As long as you hold to this position, you should stop identifying yourself as "Christian". And you have already been shown the Scriptures which say that Jesus is God. Why did you ignore them? So I will quote just one verse -- I Timothy 3:16 (only in the KJB) which says this:

And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God (Theos) was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

What does it mean when it says "God was manifest in the flesh"? Does it not mean that God took human form? And who was this who took human form when "the Word was made flesh and dwelt among us"? Was it not the Lord Jesus Christ? Jesus of Nazareth, the one who called Himself "I AM"?

So is it fair to conclude that this verse is actually telling you "JESUS IS GOD"? Now if you reject this verse and continue with your heretical nonsense, then the Bible says that you are an "antichrist" and Christians should have no fellowship with you.

Here is a link to BibleGateway for this verse. Notice how many translations read “who” or “he” or “he who” was manifest in the flesh instead of “God” was manifest.
1 Timothy 3:16 - Bible Gateway

Claiming 1 Timothy 3:16 says Jesus is God is at best highly disputed.

 

[JohnPaul]

As long as you hold to this position, you should stop identifying yourself as "Christian". And you have already been shown the Scriptures which say that Jesus is God. Why did you ignore them? So I will quote just one verse -- I Timothy 3:16 (only in the KJB) which says this:

And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God (Theos) was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

What does it mean when it says "God was manifest in the flesh"? Does it not mean that God took human form? And who was this who took human form when "the Word was made flesh and dwelt among us"? Was it not the Lord Jesus Christ? Jesus of Nazareth, the one who called Himself "I AM"?

So is it fair to conclude that this verse is actually telling you "JESUS IS GOD"? Now if you reject this verse and continue with your heretical nonsense, then the Bible says that you are an "antichrist" and Christians should have no fellowship with you.

I don't believe Jesus is God either, but the Son of God Jehovah, this is what Jesus said and the Bible says, otherwise Jesus would not refer To Jehovah as his Father.

 

[APAK]

The point you make with Revelation 1:4, 5 puts a clear scriptural end to attempts to apply Revelation 1:8 yet it is rarely referenced. Well done.

Welcome David and I hope to read many posts of yours. I can learn from someone as you as I'm doing from others already, and new members for sure. It's been a blessing to me. Thank God for his timing and love and folks like you who have an ear for detecting the truth.

 

[APAK]

When our Lord appears, He will draw the line between those who believe in Him and those who do not. I'm shaking my head over these denials of Jesus Christ by ones who say they follow Him. I'm placing people on ignore.

That seems out of character for you AJ. I would pray about it as I will for you. I believe I was the first person to address you on this site, or one of the first for sure. I've had many discussions with you that have been very fruitful and comforting. Why waste your energy for a reckless cause imo?

 

[Enoch111]

Claiming 1 Timothy 3:16 says Jesus is God is at best highly disputed.

That is completely false. It is the modern translations which have used a corrupted text to obscure or deny the deity of Christ. Now if you want the truth about this matter, go to The Revision Revised by John William Burgon, and read his dissertation on "God was manifest in the flesh". HE explains exactly how "who" or "he who" came into existence. He was one of the leading conservative textual scholars of the 19th century and you can get reprints of this book.

As to saying "Jesus is the Son of God but that does not mean that He is God", Jesus would laugh at this foolishness. Even the unbelieving Jews knew that "Son of God" = "God" for the Jews. Even "Son of Man" = "God" for the Jews because of what is written in Daniel.

 

[TLHKAJ]

So is it fair to conclude that this verse is actually telling you "JESUS IS GOD"? Now if you reject this verse and continue with your heretical nonsense, then the Bible says that you are an "antichrist" and Christians should have no fellowship with you.

This is exactly why I'm placing people on ignore. I can't fellowship with ones who don't believe His account of who He is. I can't stand even reading their doctrines. My heart grieves to think how many reject Him.

 

[TLHKAJ]

That seems out of character for you AJ. I would pray about it as I will for you. I believe I was the first person to address you on this site, or one of the first for sure. I've had many discussions with you that have been very fruitful and comforting. Why waste your energy for a reckless cause imo?

I like you, @APAK. But I can in no wise call the identity of Christ a reckless cause and I am saddened that you reject what is clearly stated in scripture about Jesus Christ and His identity. I suppose you don't believe in the virgin birth?

 

[TLHKAJ]

Clearly we can't have discrepancies in the scriptures. They all have to fit one way or the other. I know all the verses that infer Jesus is God (I used to believe Jesus is God), but none are as clear as those half dozen or so that specifically call Jesus a man, along with those that say God is NOT a man. Without saying you are wrong about Jesus being God, how do you square that?

You have completely dismissed a multitude of scripture that states Jesus is God. There's nothing else to discuss. I won't deny Him - period.

As to your claim that I've not presented scripture, you've read my stance based on many many scriptures throughout the Word of God, on the 3 or 4 other threads. You still reject Him. Enough is enough.

You are also going on ignore.

 

[Rich R]

LoL.

In the future, Rich, it might be a good idea not to start threads with the words "Satan was right" in them. Ha Ha!!

Context plus a question mark doesn't count for anything? Plus, wouldn't word, "was" (which you left out of the quote) mean something also? I think most got the point, as bad as it may have been. :)

 

[Rich R]

“If you have seen Me, you have seen the Father.....I and the Father are One”

I see your point and it certainly can't be ignored. On the other hand, neither can 1 Cor 8:6 be ignored. It says that only the Father is God. The question becomes one of squaring the two apparently contradictory statements.

I know there are several verses that could be taken in a Trinitarian way. I also know many verses that would appear to preclude a trinity. I've looked carefully at both sides (I used to be Trinitarian) and concluded that the verses that preclude a trinity are both more numerous and definite. But if someone approaches the question with an already made up mind, whether for or against, it's unlikely any change will occur.

 

[bbyrd009]

i guess we have a passage about going over and over the same foundation eh