Satan Demons Angels and Spiritual Warfare

[face2face]

So, you believe that the NT writers (all of them who speak on the subject of a singular being) invented this adversary? You do not actually believe (at present) that 'the' (definite article) devil/satan/lucifer (heylel) exists? Where did they (NT writers) get the idea from?

For instance:

Act 26:18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

So here, the notions you apply to this text are not the notions the writer applied to the text.

When you read that you see a reality in your minds eye which was not being taught.

Context: Paul is speaking to Agrippa about his conversion experience from Acts 9 and how the Lord had sent him (Apostle) to preach to the Gentiles.

I like how the Word of God provided you the definition within the text - the inspired text does this a lot!

26:18 to open their eyes so that they turn from darkness to light and from the power of Satan to God, so that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a share among those who are sanctified by faith in me.’ Ac 26:18. (colour coded it for you )

(Note: forgiveness of sins must relate to the darkness and this adversarial power - we should come back to this Hebrews 2:14-17!!!)

It's likened to the example of Exod 10:21–23 one of the disasters the Lord brings on Egypt involves three days of darkness, during which time the Israelites enjoy the light. This time however, the Gentile darkness would come to and end the Power of the Adversary - Sin, Flesh & Earhtly Passions would no longer be the power and force in their lives, as it was currently for Agrippa (Paul was trying to convert Agrippa in case you didnt know)

For Isaiah, God forms light/prosperity as well as darkness/doom (Isaiah 45:7), and, at Israel’s restoration God’s people are told, “Arise, shine; for your light has come, and the glory of the Lord has risen upon you. For darkness shall cover the earth, and thick darkness the peoples; but the Lord will arise upon you, and his glory will appear over you. Nations shall come to your light, and kings to the brightness of your dawn” (60:1–3).

As a side note: What you are doing with Paul's Words is forcing into them notions which are not being taught. You are taking the darkness and misinterpreting it with ideas not taught anywhere in the Word.

Also, here is an excerise for you to do now:

But he turned and said to Peter, “Get behind me, Satan! You are a hindrance to me. For you are not setting your mind on the things of God, but on the things of man.” Matthew 16:23

What is the definition of Satan from this passage?
And how do you think it relates to the darkness and power in Acts 26?

F2F

 

[face2face]

@Christian Soldier I hope you are following along! Make sure you look up the cross references and see how the Word of God teaches those who genuinely want to learn!

 

[Christian Soldier]

Not a single inspired text.

I've seen what you do with inspired text, it's like waving a red cape at a Spanish bull. I would like to know which systematic theology you adhere to, it would be very helpful as it would tell me what the root cause of your failure to understand scripture is.

My position is clear for all to see, I subscribe to Reformed Theology so you know where I stand, but you duck and weave and twist all the time and you never reveal what you actually believe.

 

[Christian Soldier]

@Christian Soldier I hope you are following along! Make sure you look up the cross references and see how the Word of God teaches those who genuinely want to learn!

I've read everything but I won't subject myself to your heretical teaching. My Shepherd has warned me about you guys

 

[face2face]

I've seen what you do with inspired text, it's like waving a red cape at a Spanish bull. I would like to know which systematic theology you adhere to, it would be very helpful as it would tell me what the root cause of your failure to understand scripture is.

My position is clear for all to see, I subscribe to Reformed Theology so you know where I stand, but you duck and weave and twist all the time and you never reveal what you actually believe.

Keep following the Inspired Text Christian and leave your preconceived notions behind you!

When you reply always do so with evidence to support your words so you want fall into the pit, as you have shown time and time again. It will also force you to prove all things!

F2F

 

[face2face]

I've read everything but I won't subject myself to your heretical teaching. My Shepherd has warned me about you guys

Isaiah 8:20 many have stumbled as you do - but this cannot be pardoned.

 

[face2face]

So lets begin with all the occurences of Satan in the Bible and lets see if we can be taught of God?

Numbers 22:22"And God's anger was kindled because he went: and the angel of the LORD stood in the way for an adversary (Satan) against him. Now he was riding upon his ass, and his two servants were with him."

What's interesting about this passage is the word satan is actually being used clearly in an obvoius context, "adversary" and it applies to an Angel of God (obedient as they all are!)

Can you see the irony in this being the first use of the word?
This is why modern Scholars have abandoned the teaching of a fallen angelic being as we have here an obedient angel being a satan!

More to come!

@Christian Soldier - Once you have the tools to understand the word (satan) and how its used, you can apply these skills to all the Word!

Characteristics of a satan = someone who stands in the way of another.

Questions: Was this angel and good satan or a bad satan?

F2F

 

[face2face]

Cont... with the above thought this is interesting:

Numbers 22:32"And the angel of the LORD said unto him, Wherefore hast thou smitten thine ass these three times? behold, I went out to withstand thee, because thy way is perverse before me:"

Same story and context!

A modern translation:

The angel of the Lord said to him, “Why have you beaten your donkey these three times? Look, I came out to oppose you because what you are doing is perverse before me. Nu 22:31–32.

Same idea; oppose, withstand, adversary

This will lead you all thinking why would God not reveal an evil satan where the context is demonic, pitchfork type notions, well its because it does not exist!

F2F

 

[face2face]

@Christian Soldier

But the leaders of the Philistines became angry with him and said to him, “Send the man back! Let him return to the place that you assigned him! Don’t let him go down with us into the battle, for he might become our adversary in the battle. What better way to please his lord than with the heads of these men? 1 Sa 29:4.



As Jesus said to Saul "why do you kick your heel against the sting!"

Why do you hurt yourself @Christian Soldier?

F2F

 

[Christian Soldier]

Keep following the Inspired Text Christian and leave your preconceived notions behind you!

When you reply always do so with evidence to support your words so you want fall into the pit, as you have shown time and time again. It will also force you to prove all things!

F2F

I don't have any preconceived notions, I stand on the shoulders of the Church Fathers who have done all the conceiving on my behalf. I simply collect the reward for all of their hard work. My dad always says, "if you don't take advantage of the brains of the experts, it shows you don't have any of your own" so yeah there you have it a nutshell. Undeniable truth, which you are yet to realize.

Your foolish pride has blinded you to the truth, it has left you lost in confusion.

 

[Christian Soldier]

Isaiah 8:20 many have stumbled as you do - but this cannot be pardoned.

I love the way you try to use verses as weapons, while having no understanding of what their intended meaning is

 

[Christian Soldier]

So lets begin with all the occurences of Satan in the Bible and lets see if we can be taught of God?

Numbers 22:22"And God's anger was kindled because he went: and the angel of the LORD stood in the way for an adversary (Satan) against him. Now he was riding upon his ass, and his two servants were with him."

What's interesting about this passage is the word satan is actually being used clearly in an obvoius context, "adversary" and it applies to an Angel of God (obedient as they all are!)

Can you see the irony in this being the first use of the word?
This is why modern Scholars have abandoned the teaching of a fallen angelic being as we have here an obedient angel being a satan!

More to come!

@Christian Soldier - Once you have the tools to understand the word (satan) and how its used, you can apply these skills to all the Word!

Characteristics of a satan = someone who stands in the way of another.

Questions: Was this angel and good satan or a bad satan?

F2F

There is no irony in the use of the word Satan/Adversary. Words are used in many ways so it all comes down to their intended context. Jesus called Peter Satan, but was He saying that Peter is the Devil, of' course not so you need discernment when studying the bible. You read it like some cheap paperback novel. That's why your always confused.

You should do a study and find out all the different names and Titles Satan goes by, it will shock you to learn the truth of the matter.

 

[Christian Soldier]

@Christian Soldier

But the leaders of the Philistines became angry with him and said to him, “Send the man back! Let him return to the place that you assigned him! Don’t let him go down with us into the battle, for he might become our adversary in the battle. What better way to please his lord than with the heads of these men? 1 Sa 29:4.

View attachment 49130

As Jesus said to Saul "why do you kick your heel against the sting!"

Why do you hurt yourself @Christian Soldier?

F2F

Why don't you take off those tunnel vision glasses, so you can see the whole picture. It's not profitable to focus on a word while ignoring the broader context and other different applications of the word

 

[ReChoired]

26:18 to open their eyes so that they turn from darkness to light and from the power of Satan to God, so that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a share among those who are sanctified by faith in me.’ Ac 26:18. (colour coded it for you )

Jesus is quoting/summarizing the OT there. So Jesus is not 'inventing' a new imaginary character, or individual, or mystical darkness, but referring back to that which was already accepted by the Hebrews in the OT. In koine Greek it is "του σατανα".

Act 26:18 ανοιξαι οφθαλμους αυτων και επιστρεψαι απο σκοτους εις φως και της εξουσιας του σατανα επι τον θεον του λαβειν αυτους αφεσιν αμαρτιων και κληρον εν τοις ηγιασμενοις πιστει τη εις εμε​

The Adversary (Satan, which is why they Capitalized it as a name, just as in the OT texts which likewise use the definite article in Hebrew, "Ha"), as in Job 1:6,7,8,9,12(x2), 2:1,2(X2),3,4,6,7; Zec. 3:1,2(x2) as "השׂטן", "haSäţän", literally 'The (definite article) Adversary" of God, thus given as a name to a singular being. In 1 Chr. 21:1 (paralleled in 2 Sam. 24:1); Psa. 109:6 (referring to Judas, who was possesed of the devil; Luk. 22:3; Jhn. 13:2,27) are also like this, and ikewise refer to an adversary, but contextually to a specific one, not needing the definite article by context. The very "εξουσιας", "exousias", "power", refers to the authority that the devil has as 'god of this world' (2 Cor. 4:4), having usurped the dominion of the first Adam:

Luk_4:6 And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it.​

​

Luk 4:6 και ειπεν αυτω ο διαβολος σοι δωσω την εξουσιαν ταυτην απασαν και την δοξαν αυτων οτι εμοι παραδεδοται και ω εαν θελω διδωμι αυτην​

​

Heb_2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;​

​

Heb 2:14 επει ουν τα παιδια κεκοινωνηκεν σαρκος και αιματος και αυτος παραπλησιως μετεσχεν των αυτων ινα δια του θανατου καταργηση τον το κρατος εχοντα του θανατου τουτεστιν τον διαβολον​

The texts you cited do not use the definite article, where it is a name for the being 'HaSatan'. For instance you chose, Num. 22:22,32; & 1 Sam. 29:4, all of which uses not a definite article "Ha", but rather 'Lamed', for "לשׂטן" (l'säţän), as does 2 Sam. 19:22. The other texts just have "satan", 1 Kin. 5:4, 11:14,23,25. Likewise in the NT text you cited, it is always translated as "Satan" (Satan's) as a proper name, with or without the definite article in koine Greek, as koine Greek is a bit differing than Hebrew this way, and definite article not always required.

Acts. 26:18 does use parallelism, thus equating "darkness" as "the power of the Satan". It is His (the Adversary's, Satan's) "power". The darkness is not the Adversay itself, but that which the Adversary utilizes against God, whose power is Light. You seem to have the confusion of the attribute mixed or co-mingled with the being/person.

In Luke, Jesus refers to 'the Satan' as a specific being that desires to sift Peter.

​

Luk_22:31 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat:​

​

Luk 22:31 ειπεν δε ο κυριος σιμων σιμων ιδου ο σατανας εξητησατο υμας του σινιασαι ως τον σιτον​

This is not a non-entity, or mere mystical darkness. This is not a mere-spiritual ideology but a personal being that seeks to test Peter. Peter knows this being/person is real:

1Pe_5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:​

1Pe 5:8 νηψατε γρηγορησατε οτι ο αντιδικος υμων διαβολος ως λεων ωρυομενος περιπατει ζητων τινα καταπιη​

You seem to have swallowed the very lie that the devil spread, namely that he doesn't exist.

Even in Genesis, Adam, is called HaAdam. As a proper name. There are even places that there is HaLevi, as a proper name, &c. There is at least one place that uses HaJEHOVAH.

 

[face2face]

There is no irony in the use of the word Satan/Adversary. Words are used in many ways so it all comes down to their intended context. Jesus called Peter Satan, but was He saying that Peter is the Devil, of' course not so you need discernment when studying the bible. You read it like some cheap paperback novel. That's why your always confused.

This is progress because within your response is acknowledgement the word satan has a meaning (not always a Name! )

You have learned something - be glad about that!

Now keep reading and maybe you might lean more than you realise.

F2F

 

[face2face]

Jesus is quoting/summarizing the OT there. So Jesus is not 'inventing' a new imaginary character, or individual, or mystical darkness, but referring back to that which was already accepted by the Hebrews in the OT. In koine Greek it is "του σατανα".

Act 26:18 ανοιξαι οφθαλμους αυτων και επιστρεψαι απο σκοτους εις φως και της εξουσιας του σατανα επι τον θεον του λαβειν αυτους αφεσιν αμαρτιων και κληρον εν τοις ηγιασμενοις πιστει τη εις εμε​

The Adversary (Satan, which is why they Capitalized it as a name, just as in the OT texts which likewise use the definite article in Hebrew, "Ha"), as in Job 1:6,7,8,9,12(x2), 2:1,2(X2),3,4,6,7; Zec. 3:1,2(x2) as "השׂטן", "haSäţän", literally 'The (definite article) Adversary" of God, thus given as a name to a singular being. In 1 Chr. 21:1 (paralleled in 2 Sam. 24:1); Psa. 109:6 (referring to Judas, who was possesed of the devil; Luk. 22:3; Jhn. 13:2,27) are also like this, and ikewise refer to an adversary, but contextually to a specific one, not needing the definite article by context. The very "εξουσιας", "exousias", "power", refers to the authority that the devil has as 'god of this world' (2 Cor. 4:4), having usurped the dominion of the first Adam:

Luk_4:6 And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it.​

​

Luk 4:6 και ειπεν αυτω ο διαβολος σοι δωσω την εξουσιαν ταυτην απασαν και την δοξαν αυτων οτι εμοι παραδεδοται και ω εαν θελω διδωμι αυτην​

​

Heb_2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;​

​

Heb 2:14 επει ουν τα παιδια κεκοινωνηκεν σαρκος και αιματος και αυτος παραπλησιως μετεσχεν των αυτων ινα δια του θανατου καταργηση τον το κρατος εχοντα του θανατου τουτεστιν τον διαβολον​

The texts you cited do not use the definite article, where it is a name for the being 'HaSatan'. For instance you chose, Num. 22:22,32; & 1 Sam. 29:4, all of which uses not a definite article "Ha", but rather 'Lamed', for "לשׂטן" (l'säţän), as does 2 Sam. 19:22. The other texts just have "satan", 1 Kin. 5:4, 11:14,23,25. Likewise in the NT text you cited, it is always translated as "Satan" (Satan's) as a proper name, with or without the definite article in koine Greek, as koine Greek is a bit differing than Hebrew this way, and definite article not always required.

Acts. 26:18 does use parallelism, thus equating "darkness" as "the power of the Satan". It is His (the Adversary's, Satan's) "power". The darkness is not the Adversay itself, but that which the Adversary utilizes against God, whose power is Light. You seem to have the confusion of the attribute mixed or co-mingled with the being/person.

In Luke, Jesus refers to 'the Satan' as a specific being that desires to sift Peter.

​

Luk_22:31 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat:​

​

Luk 22:31 ειπεν δε ο κυριος σιμων σιμων ιδου ο σατανας εξητησατο υμας του σινιασαι ως τον σιτον​

This is not a non-entity, or mere mystical darkness. This is not a mere-spiritual ideology but a personal being that seeks to test Peter. Peter knows this being/person is real:

1Pe_5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:​

1Pe 5:8 νηψατε γρηγορησατε οτι ο αντιδικος υμων διαβολος ως λεων ωρυομενος περιπατει ζητων τινα καταπιη​

You seem to have swallowed the very lie that the devil spread, namely that he doesn't exist.

Even in Genesis, Adam, is called HaAdam. As a proper name. There are even places that there is HaLevi, as a proper name, &c. There is at least one place that uses HaJEHOVAH.

Thanks for that lengthy reply which didn't anwer my questions, however I continue to follow your lead.

 

[face2face]

@ReChoired

The Devil, who is explicitly identified as Satan in Rev 12:9 and 20:2, is the principal enemy of God and his people in this book. “(The) Devil” ([ho] diabolos; lit., “[the] slanderer”) is the standard LXX rendering of the Hebrew word hasatan. Satan means simply “adversary” (e.g., Num 22:22; 1 Sam 29:4; 1 Kgs 11:25). Only with the definite article (hasatan) does the word take on the connotation of a specific adversary—i.e., “the Adversary,” or “Satan.” Joseph L. Trafton, Reading Revelation: A Literary and Theological Commentary, Rev. ed., Reading the New Testament Series (Macon, GA: Smyth & Helwys Publishing, 2005), 35–36.

How do you identify the nature (or person) of the adversary?

You seem to infer your being exist's merely by the use of the definite article? That the definite article itself proves this creatures existence!

You can't use an inferred argument to prove a beings existence!

You understand that, right?

Is the evidence you have, the inferred knowledge, imaginations and notions which you hang of a definite artcile...? You must have something else? Right?

You have discounted Numbers 22:22; 1 Sam 29:4 and 1 Kings 25 etc.

I'm curious, what do you have in the OT to draw on? And what do you use in the NT to prove your being exists!

Let me make this clearer for you. You need an origin story to prove your definite article is referring to a fallen angel - a creature of evil roaming around consuming at will.

You don't need to bring morphology in to prove this!

Nothing in your reply showed any evidence of the connection between an evil fallen angel and the title Satan. Can I suggest you try not to get too tricky with the text as this won't provide any meaningful evidence as the context is usually king!

It's noted you didn't provide an answer to Matt 16:23

But he turned and said to Peter, “Get behind me, Satan! You are a hindrance to me. For you are not setting your mind on the things of God, but on the things of man.” Matthew 16:23
What is the definition of Satan from this passage? Highlighted in red for you
And how do you think it relates to the darkness and power in Acts 26? The answer is; "the things of man i.e sin!" is the Power of Satan from which the forgiveness of sins is required! It was a rather obvious connection and I was surprised you quoted Hebrews 2:14 which gives you the answer!

What has the power of death?

If you can answer this; your satan in many instances will be answered.

F2F

 

[face2face]

The impressive frequency with which the Satan appears in the literature of the NT is one indicator of the Satan’s significance in early Christian thought. He is mentioned in nineteen of the twenty-seven books of the NT. This frequency differs markedly from that of the Hebrew scriptures, only two books of which, Job and Zechariah, mention the Satan. Ryan E. Stokes

Christians don't want to accept the OT is silent on the evidence of an arch enemy of God. Having no origin story is the key issue.

F2F

 

[face2face]

Luk 22:31 ειπεν δε ο κυριος σιμων σιμων ιδου ο σατανας εξητησατο υμας του σινιασαι ως τον σιτον

This is not a non-entity, or mere mystical darkness. This is not a mere-spiritual ideology but a personal being that seeks to test Peter. Peter knows this being/person is real:

As we are finding each occurance demands us to identify the adversary. Your assumption is in every occurance the Adversary must be your fallen angel, however this is not the case!

“Simon, Simon, pay attention! Satan has demanded to have you all, to sift you like wheat, Lk 22:31.

The term is applied to Judaisers in 2 Cor 11:13-14 & Rev 3:9. They succeeded with Judas in Luke 22:1-6 and Peter was the next target! If they get Peter they get them all! (is the inference)

What we will find in our discussions is your understanding of the story is to force your creature into the Word, whereas I will show you the true meaning of the account from the Word.

Lets apply this test:

"for such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. And no wonder for even Satan {the chief leader} disguises himself as an angel of light. 2 Cor 11:13-14 (i.e the appearance of righteousness!)

This adversary was known to all! And in the past, moved Saul against the Christians, killing some and imprisoning others! He was one of their greatest adversaries.

The Satan of this passage is not a rebel angel, but rebel Jewish adversaries who were undermining the apostle Paul's influence in the Corinthian Church (read 2 Cor 10:2, 10-18; 11:3-26).

So it is not strange if his servants {misguided human supporters} also disguise themselves as servants of righteousness." (2 Cor 11:13-15).

Point is made rather clearly!

The same Satan (adversary) is referred to in 2 Cor 2:11: "Lest Satan should get an advantage of us: for we are not ignorant of his devices."

Again the same evidence in Rev 3:9 & the adversaries seat in Rev 2:9 all speak to the same wicked religous and secular system which afflicted the first century believers.

Listen! I am going to make those people from the synagogue (Jewish!) of Satan—who say they are Jews yet are not, but are lying—Look, I will make them come and bow down at your feet and acknowledge that I have loved you. Rev 3:9

We can do this for weeks if you want - you will never be able to prove from the Bible a context which supports your fallen angel theory and I will continue to show you the correct context from Scripture.

After a while the truth of this will become very loud!

F2F

 

[face2face]

Heb_2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

Wow, it is destroyed and it no longer has any power.

I wonder if you can link Romans 6:23 & 1 Corinth 15:56 with this verse?

What has the power of death?
What is the false accuser?

F2F

a clue...the him is personified...but what?