Sabbath-Keeping

[ATP]

ATP, can an unsaved person render obedience?

What do you mean?

 

[Phoneman777]

Only a severely deluded individual would deny what Jesus did on the cross for them. It's called humility.

Only a severely deluded individual will deny that "he that sayeth 'I know Him' and keepeth not His commandments is a LIAR and the truth is not in him". Those who refuse to keep the commandments are going to hell as rightfully as they should.

 

[Barrd]

Faith in what He did on the cross Phoneman. What did He do on the cross?

Heb 7:23-25 NIV Now there have been many of those priests, since death prevented them from continuing in office; 24 but because Jesus lives forever, he has a permanent priesthood. 25 Therefore he is able to save completely those who come to God through him, because he always lives to intercede for them.

There is more to Jesus than what He did on the cross, ATP. Much, much more.
Believing in Him means more than just believing in His death and resurrection....demons also know that He died for our sins, and that He rose on the third day....but that knowledge cannot save them.
Do you know why that is, ATP?

 

[Phoneman777]

Incorrect, Jesus obedience to the Father alone took away our sins. We are sinful, Jesus is sinless.

You are not sinful, bro, you WERE sinful, but now you are a new creature in Jesus. If you are still sinning, then you are not saved and are going to go to hell.
Sorry.

 

[ATP]

Just what does a lost person have to trust in?

Rom 10:9 NIV.

 

[Phoneman777]

What do you mean?

Just what I asked. Can an unsaved person obey God's law?

 

[Barrd]

What do you mean?

Just the fact that you can ask this shows your lack of understanding, ATP...

 

[Phoneman777]

Rom 10:9 NIV.

OK, ATP, you must be from Rio Linda. I'll ask again: You claim that deluded people are trusting in themselves for salvation. I'm asking just what exactly are they trusting in?

 

[ATP]

Only a severely deluded individual will deny that "he that sayeth 'I know Him' and keepeth not His commandments is a LIAR and the truth is not in him". Those who refuse to keep the commandments are going to hell as rightfully as they should.

The lake of fire is God's wrath poured out on nonbelievers Rev 14:10 NIV, and scripture clearly states that believers are not appointed to wrath Dan 12:1 NIV, Matt 24:21-22 NIV, John 3:36 NIV, Rom 5:9 NIV, Rom 9:22 NIV, Eph 2:3 NIV, 1 Thess 1:9-10 NIV, 1 Thess 5:9-10 NIV, Heb 4:3 ESV, Rev 3:10 NIV.

Deluded.. :blink:

 

[Phoneman777]

The lake of fire is God's wrath poured out on nonbelievers Rev 14:10 NIV, and scripture clearly states that believers are not appointed to wrath Dan 12:1 NIV, Matt 24:21-22 NIV, John 3:36 NIV, Rom 5:9 NIV, Rom 9:22 NIV, Eph 2:3 NIV, 1 Thess 1:9-10 NIV, 1 Thess 5:9-10 NIV, Heb 4:3 ESV, Rev 3:10 NIV.

Deluded.. :blink:

The Unmerciful Servant and the withered Vine branches and the apostates of Hebrews 6 and 2 Peter 2 say otherwise.

 

[ATP]

Just what I asked. Can an unsaved person obey God's law?

Sure they can. They obey it not even knowing they are already condemned.

 

[ATP]

The Unmerciful Servant and the withered Vine branches and the apostates of Hebrews 6 and 2 Peter 2 say otherwise.

Parables, poems, allegories oh my. lions, tigers, bears oh my. soul sleep is false too because of Luke 16:19-31. :lol:

 

[Phoneman777]

Sure they can. They obey it not even knowing they are already condemned.

And your beliefs once again are found to conflict with Scripture:

"The carnal mind is emnity with God. It is NOT SUBJECT to the law of God, neither indeed can be." Romans 8:7 KJV

Get it? The carnal mind can't obey God even if it wanted to, ATP.

 

[ATP]

I'm asking just what exactly are they trusting in?

Read Rom 10:9 NIV and you will find out. Believing is trusting Phone.

 

[Phoneman777]

Parables, poems, allegories oh my. lions, tigers, bears oh my. soul sleep is false too because of Luke 16:19-31. :lol:

Properly interpreted parables teach truth and spare us from lies, bro.

 

[Phoneman777]

Read Rom 10:9 NIV and you will find out. Believing is trusting Phone.

No, tell me just what in a lost person is it that they are trusting for salvation, bro. Their looks? Their singing or dancing talent? What, bro???? What are they trusting in?

 

[Barrd]

Parables, poems, allegories oh my. lions, tigers, bears oh my. soul sleep is false too because of Luke 16:19-31. :lol:

Why do you think the Lord spoke in parables, ATP?

 

[ATP]

Get it? The carnal mind can't obey God even if it wanted to, ATP.

Oh I agree with that, nonbelievers are considered enemies of God. Listen Phone, you would have to break these scriptures down word for word to truly convert me to your silly doctrine. I would love to see you try.....

John 6:47 NIV Very truly I tell you, the one who believes has eternal life.

John 10:25-30 NIV Jesus answered, “I did tell you, but you do not believe. The works I do in my Father’s name testify about me, 26but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. 27My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. 30I and the Father are one.”

Rom 8:1-2 NIV Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, 2because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you free from the law of sin and death.

Rom 8:31-39 ESV What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? 32He who did not spare his own Son but gave him up for us all, how will he not also with him graciously give us all things? 33Who shall bring any charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies. 34Who is to condemn? Christ Jesus is the one who died—more than that, who was raised—who is at the right hand of God, who indeed is interceding for us. 35Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or danger, or sword? 36As it is written, “For your sake we are being killed all the day long; we are regarded as sheep to be slaughtered.” 37No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. 38For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, 39nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Eph 1:13-14 NIV And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.

Eph 4:30 NIV And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

Heb 9:12 NLT With his own blood--not the blood of goats and calves--he entered the Most Holy Place once for all time and secured our redemption forever.

Heb 10:10-12 NIV And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. 11 Day after day every priest stands and performs his religious duties; again and again he offers the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. 12 But when this priest had offered for all time one sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God.

1 Peter 1:3-5 NIV Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4and into an inheritance that can never perish, spoil or fade. This inheritance is kept in heaven for you, 5who through faith are shielded by God’s power until the coming of the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time.

1 John 5:13-14 NIV I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life. 14This is the confidence we have in approaching God:

2 John 1:2 NIV because of the truth, which lives in us and will be with us forever:

 

[ATP]

Why do you think the Lord spoke in parables, ATP?

True, but it's the definition of what a parable is that you and Phoneman are having trouble with.

 

[Phoneman777]

Oh I agree with that, nonbelievers are considered enemies of God.

Bro, you JUST got done claiming a second ago that the lost are capable of obedience and NOW you say you agree that they are incapable based on the Scripture in Romans? I don't know whether to congratulate you or choke you, bro. :)

Bro, since the lost are incapable of obedience, then just what are they trusting in ?