Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
thyen please rewrite them for a forgetful 67 year old. Thgank you!
Now y0ou sound like a Calvinist!
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thyen please rewrite them for a forgetful 67 year old. Thgank you!
Now y0ou sound like a Calvinist!
ChristisGod
Well-Known Member
Behold
Well-Known Member
According to Paul's teaching.......Calvin, and Calvinism, is under a curse.
Galatians 1:8
So, if a person is teaching it, then that is on Them.
Why is it a Cursed doctrine of Devils?
Its because Calvinism, and TULIP change the Gift of The Cross, into....>>"only a select group are offered The Cross".
And the fact is, there is nothing more Satanic then to change the way that God offers Salvation, as The Cross of Christ, by limiting it.
Galatians 1:8
So, if a person is teaching it, then that is on Them.
Why is it a Cursed doctrine of Devils?
Its because Calvinism, and TULIP change the Gift of The Cross, into....>>"only a select group are offered The Cross".
And the fact is, there is nothing more Satanic then to change the way that God offers Salvation, as The Cross of Christ, by limiting it.
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
Thrashing what you perceive as darkness will never get rid of darkness.
Turn on the light and darkness dissipates effortlessly for those wanting light.
Sooooo, how about turning on the light?
Behold
Well-Known Member
Im not thrashing Calvin, and His "doctrine of devils", im revealing Him, and his demonic Theology.
Those who are not Calvinists, if they read carefully what im teaching, can protect themselves from being trapped by people who are on forums, and in Pulpits, who are selling Calvinism to them, as it was sold to them.
What is that?
That is me revealing Light : vs Darkness.
Its Exposure.
Its Revelation.
See, Truth is Light, and Darkness is lies.......is the simplified version of being able to discern theology of lies, vs, Truth as Theology.
But here is the catch.
Once you are in the dark, then the Light is not in there with you, because the darkness is inside you, Jesus said..
Luke 11:35
So, to reach that darkness, inside a Disciple of Calvin, or inside a Catholic, a Mormon, a Scientologist........ is a long way to go.
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
Jesus said, 'I am the light of the World'. Keeping that clear keeps one from all the distortions men use as an excuse for light.
I'm quite sure something along these exact lines has been said in this thread, and probably multiple times, but does not Paul, in speaking of God's elect, say...
"...not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel" (Romans 9:6)
...and God Himself, through Moses and cited by Paul, say...
"I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion" (Romans 9:15)?
He certainly does, and then goes on to say God "has mercy on whomever He wills, and He hardens whomever He wills" (Romans 9:18). So, irrefutably, the true number of God's elect, His Israel, we cannot know, but unmistakably, it is limited to some degree... not universal; not all will be saved.
It is unlimited in one sense ~ Christ's atonement is surely sufficient for the salvation of all, and the general call of the Gospel is given to all ~ but limited in another ~ Christ's atonement is only effectual for God's elect, and God, by the working of His Spirit, only inwardly calls some and thus saves. The former is certainly true, but the latter, which is also certainly true, is the sense in which the 'L' of John Calvin's TULIP is couched. As Paul says in Ephesians 1:3-6...
"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, Who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, even as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before Him. In love He predestined us for adoption to Himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of His will, to the praise of His glorious grace, with which He has blessed us in the Beloved."
These are Paul's (and Moses's, even God's) exact words. Grace and peace to you, Behold.
Yes, not a spiritual resurrection, but a new creation, a new spirit God creates in us, behold, all things are become new. The old passed away, the new is here. And all this is of God.
2 Corinthians 5:17
Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.
It is a man or woman's choice how they respond to God's call ...either with an humble and contrite heart, or to harden their heart. God knows beforehand how they will respond, and He calls them anyway. So in effect, He hardens their hearts by drawing them, knowing they will not respond the way He desires them to respond.
Hebrews 3:7-10
[7]Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, To day if ye will hear his voice,
[8]Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness:
[9]When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years.
[10]Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways.
Ezekiel 33:11
[11]Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?
Behold
Well-Known Member
Understanding that "God exists in Light", and that "Jesus is the Light of the World", and that all the born again are become "Children of The Light", having been "translated from darkness .. TO LIGHT">......... Which is the KOG.......will not protect you from becoming a..
CALVINIST
CATHOLIC
MORMON
JW
and all the other cults.
So, what does protect the Believer, from being caught up inside some CULT's theology, that ruins their mind, regarding TRUTH as Bible Doctrine, ?
Reader, when a cult theology, a cult BELIEF System, like Calvinism, or Catholicism, or what Mary Baker Eddy teaches... has captivated and captured your MIND.......The NT refers to this as a "STRONG HOLD"< because its deception that has ROOTED in your understanding whereby the Deception now seems to be The TRUTH.............as you now BELIEVE.
You have to do what KJV = Hebrews 13:9.........tells you to do, with your HEART.
You have to study and learn perfectly, exactly how God's Son's Blood and DEATH, has made you RIGHTEOUS, forever.
And until that is NAILED DOWN, as your FAITH, then you are always on the brink of being led into some Theology that is created by Satan..
And i listed some of His, in that List, i posted.
I grew up in a Calvinist denomination. After thinking for myself and researching Calvinism (selection) and Arminianism (invitation), I've concluded that both doctrines—'election' and 'Free will'—are biblically correct when rightly applied. Both are wrong when incorrectly applied. I'm happy to direct you to my research if you're interested.
This question of Arminianism v Calvinism is at least as old as the New Testament itself.
The story of the man born blind in John's Gospel details this argument. Which Jesus said "BOTH SIDES ARE WRONG". And the arguing about this is especially wrong.
The parable of soils is the truth. Because God is the source of All truth.
And this parable tells us point blank that each person has their own unique, individual relationship with Christ as each of us is an individual unique unto ourselves. As such we all will have a unique relationship. Some are more capable of unique thought than others and need to be shepherded more than others. Others are more understanding of their unique path to God and seek Him.
These relationships are based on a variety of factors such as perceptions, experiences, and especially cognitive biases. This can make some people "blind" to the obvious truth as well as those who have perfect vision and all points in between.
The MOST IMPORTANT theology to have is unity.
When Moses overlooked the battle with the Amalakites (slave traders who picked up the weakest behind the main group) the Israelites succeeded in battle as Moses lifted his staff....but didn't when his arms grew weary.
So others had to help hold up Moses's arms.
Meaning that through unity and helping EVERYONE regardless of who they are, God is willing to empower us. If we are alone, don't expect God to do anything....because you have failed in the most basic lessons of Christianity.
This principle is repeated extremely often throughout scripture...Good Samaritan, "Our" in the Lord's Prayer, David and Johnathon, and even on the Road to Emmaus.
So...let's not label those who work diligently for God as evil. (Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit) Nor should anyone claim they have the Perfect Theology that makes everyone who doesn't share in it as Satan Worshippers.
We are a community...a brotherhood and Sisterhood that is united.
The story of the man born blind in John's Gospel details this argument. Which Jesus said "BOTH SIDES ARE WRONG". And the arguing about this is especially wrong.
The parable of soils is the truth. Because God is the source of All truth.
And this parable tells us point blank that each person has their own unique, individual relationship with Christ as each of us is an individual unique unto ourselves. As such we all will have a unique relationship. Some are more capable of unique thought than others and need to be shepherded more than others. Others are more understanding of their unique path to God and seek Him.
These relationships are based on a variety of factors such as perceptions, experiences, and especially cognitive biases. This can make some people "blind" to the obvious truth as well as those who have perfect vision and all points in between.
The MOST IMPORTANT theology to have is unity.
When Moses overlooked the battle with the Amalakites (slave traders who picked up the weakest behind the main group) the Israelites succeeded in battle as Moses lifted his staff....but didn't when his arms grew weary.
So others had to help hold up Moses's arms.
Meaning that through unity and helping EVERYONE regardless of who they are, God is willing to empower us. If we are alone, don't expect God to do anything....because you have failed in the most basic lessons of Christianity.
This principle is repeated extremely often throughout scripture...Good Samaritan, "Our" in the Lord's Prayer, David and Johnathon, and even on the Road to Emmaus.
So...let's not label those who work diligently for God as evil. (Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit) Nor should anyone claim they have the Perfect Theology that makes everyone who doesn't share in it as Satan Worshippers.
We are a community...a brotherhood and Sisterhood that is united.
Behold
Well-Known Member
Never try to direct anyone into Calvinism, as thats the Devil's work, that is no different then directing them into Mormonism, or Mary Baker Eddy, or Scientology, or "Gnosticism" or into "the cult of Mary"... or... "how to become a JW".
Only "direct someone" to CHRIST, and after that, "direct them to Paul's doctrine", never Calvin's, and never anyone else's.
God creates in us a willing heart
Acts 16:14
Now a certain woman named Lydia heard us. She was a seller of purple from the city of Thyatira, who worshiped God.
The Lord opened her heart to heed the things spoken by Paul.
Behold
Well-Known Member
Here we see that she already "worshipped God", because She had faith, as does everyone, but she was only a disciple, and was not born again, yet.
In her case, she used it to worship God.. whereas in the case of a Euro Pagan, they will use THEIR God given Faith, to worship Trees, Sky, and Sea..
Here we see, that God's Holy Spirit revealed a specific Knowledge, and that is Paul's Gospel... so, this LED Lydia to place her faith that was already in God, upon JESUS... according to Paul's Gospel.
And once she placed HER faith, in Christ, according to Paul's Gospel, she was born again, and then she was water baptized.... according to the verses... if you keep reading.
No one ~ and certainly not John Calvin or any good Calvinist ~ denies that any man or woman makes a choice, and does so absolutely freely, of his or her own will and accord. Paul merely says it doesn't depend on man's choice (his strength or willing), but rather on God, Who gives mercy and compassion to those whom He chooses to do so. It is not a matter of the will, but the heart, which drives the will, and what God does, in this mercy and compassion, changes the person's heart from stone to flesh, putting His Spirit into the hearts of those whom He chooses to do so. This is His salvific call.
As for the hardening of one's heart, Paul is crystal clear in Romans 9:18, that it is God who hardens: "He has mercy on whomever He wills, and He hardens whomever He wills."
Ah, well let me ask you a question (rhetorical, really): If God knows beforehand (I'll talk about His foreknowledge in a moment) how people will respond ~ which He does, that's absolutely true ~ then, for those who He "knows beforehand" will respond negatively, why does He not do anything about it? <smile>
Building upon what I said above ~ and I'll repeat here ~ it depends not on man's will, but on God's. Again:
"...it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, Who has mercy... He has mercy on whomever He wills, and He hardens whomever He wills... Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use? What if God, desiring to show His wrath and to make known His power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, in order to make known the riches of His glory for vessels of mercy, which He has prepared beforehand for glory ~ even us whom He has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles?" (Romans 9:14-24)
And here's Paul again in Ephesians 1 (cited earlier):
"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, Who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, even as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before Him. In love He predestined us for adoption to Himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of His will, to the praise of His glorious grace, with which He has blessed us in the Beloved. In Him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace, which He lavished upon us, in all wisdom and insight making known to us the mystery of His will, according to His purpose, which He set forth in Christ as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth. In Him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will, so that we who were the first to hope in Christ might be to the praise of his glory. In Him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in Him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, Who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of His glory." (Ephesians 1:1-14)
No offense intended with this, certainly, but your use here of "drawing" is... very interesting. As I'm sure you know, Jesus Himself says, in John 6:44, "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day." The opposite of what you say is true... He draws people ~ those whom He chooses, in His mercy and compassion to do so ~ to Himself, and in so doing softens their heart... changes the heart of stone into a heart of flesh, and thus it their God and they His people. This is His salvific call. This is exactly what Ezekiel, and Paul, and Peter say:
"I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you shall be clean from all your uncleannesses, and from all your idols I will cleanse you. And I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I will put within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. And I will put My Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes and be careful to obey my rules. You shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers, and you shall be my people, and I will be your God. And I will deliver you from all your uncleannesses" (Ezekiel 36:25-29).
"And you were dead in the trespasses and sins in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience ~ among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind. But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ ~ by grace you have been saved ~ and raised us up with Him and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the coming ages He might show the immeasurable riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them" (Ephesians 2:1-10).
"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to His great mercy, He has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to an inheritance that is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, kept in heaven for you, who by God’s power are being guarded through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time" (1 Peter 1:3-5).
John says it, too:
"...to all who did receive Him, who believed in His name, he gave the right to become children of God, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God." (John 1:12-13).
"We love because he first loved us." (1 John 4:19).
Now, regarding His call, and what depends on what... Listen to what the prophet Joel says. He's quoting God Himself here:
"...it shall come to pass that everyone who calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved. For in Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there shall be those who escape, as the Lord has said, and among the survivors shall be those whom the Lord calls" (Joel 2:32)
Notice what God says there, that "For... among the survivors shall be those whom the Lord calls." That word 'for' there is very, very important; it is synonymous with 'because' in God's context there. What follows that word 'for' indicates, irrefutably, that which what comes before that 'for' depends. As hard as it may be to digest or accept, our calling on His name ~ and thus being saved ~ depends first on our being called by the Lord.
Grace and peace to you.
As to God's foreknowledge, which Paul speaks of in Romans 8... Well, let me quote it first:
"For those whom He foreknew He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, in order that He might be the firstborn among many brothers" (Romans 8:29).
Point 1: If we are to understand 'foreknew' as merely a knowing beforehand, a looking into the future and a resulting cognitive knowledge, we are applying a context very different from Paul's in that verse. God ~ because He is God ~ knows everything and everyone beforehand, cognitively, in that sense. But Paul, by saying "those whom He foreknew," is speaking of a limited number of people, not all of mankind; he is implicitly saying that there were/are/will be people that God did not foreknow. So this foreknowing cannot be a mere cognitive knowing beforehand.
Point 2: The root word of 'foreknew' is 'knew.' Yes, it's in Greek, not English. The word used there by Paul is προέγνω (root: προγινώσκω; transliteration: proginōskō), and it is the Greek translation of the Hebrew word that is used, for example, in Genesis, where we read that "Adam knew Eve his wife, and she conceived and bore Cain" (Genesis 4:1), and again a few verses later, that "Cain knew his wife, and she conceived and bore Enoch" (Genesis 4:17). So, in Paul's context in Romans 8:29, 'foreknew' is synonymous with 'foreloved'... (certainly not sexual intercourse; don't even go there... <smile>... but an act ~ on God's part ~ of loving, even choosing, beforehand, those whom He chose to do so.
And then we can fully grasp what John is saying in John 4:19, that "we (Christians) love because He first loved us."
This is what God has done for us. Thanks be to Him, and to Him only. Glory be to God, and to Him only.
Grace and peace to you.
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I don't think they can honestly disagree with those scriptures. What they have a problem with is that God would select some to be saved, and make it so, while leaving others alone and fallen.
God is not abandoning those who do not believe. Those who remain unbelieving out of their own hearts are condemned for not believing.
They can not accept God does those things, but if they honestly believed all the scriptures, logically they can come to no other understanding.
'God has mercy on whom He will and the rest He hardens', so as to not understand. Romans 9:18
They cannot comprehend a GOD who would do that, so they call the 'calvinist god a demon.'
However, God is not comprehendible.
Christ spoke to the unbelieving through parables, to fulfil the word of the LORD GOD, as them who remain always unbelieving were not given by God to know the truth and be saved. Buit for the BLESSED by GOD to know, they have eyes, ears, and heart given to them by God to know these mysteries of God.
10 And the disciples came and said to Him, “Why do You speak to them in parables?”
11 He answered and said to them, “Because it has been given to you to know the [a]mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given. 12 For whoever has, to him more will be given, and he will have abundance; but whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken away from him. 13 Therefore I speak to them in parables, because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand. 14 And in them the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled, which says:
‘Hearing you will hear and shall not understand,
And seeing you will see and not perceive;
15 For the hearts of this people have grown dull.
Their ears are hard of hearing,
And their eyes they have closed,
Lest they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears,
Lest they should understand with their hearts and turn,
So that I [b]should heal them.’
16 But blessed are your eyes for they see, and your ears for they hear; 17 for assuredly, I say to you that many prophets and righteous men desired to see what you see, and did not see it, and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it.
Well, yes. Maybe not quite, but very close; it is the same disagreement that Pelagius had with Augustine more than a thousand years before.
Right; agreed. Neither Calvinism nor Arminianism is "evil" ~ or blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, which is calling evil good and good evil, and thus the unforgivable sin; Christians, those truly born again of the Spirit, are kept from committing this sin by the Holy Spirit Himself, and thanks be to God for that.
Sure, absolutely. But discussing such things ~ in love (which, unfortunately, is not the case far too often) ~ is not a bad thing. <smile>
Grace and peace to you, JohnDB.
Right; they're rhetorically asking the very same question Paul rhetorically poses in Romans 9:20... "...who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, 'Why have you made me like this?'”
Grace and peace to you, Scott.
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