Run AWAY from Calvinism!

[Ronald Nolette]

Me too..... We all can.

From our perspective yes.

 

[Johann]

No, I pray because I am part of the elect!

..and "we" are not..well done, see you at the pearly gates.
J.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I don't think so. Virtually every -ism that begins with a man's name is contrived.

Then you do not understand the issues. And as you said- that is your thought. Not mine! YOu believe in Armenian ism, whether you wish to use His name or not!

You use a lot of exclamation points. That's a tell, you know.

I use them for emphasis. That is what I am telling.

Blah, blah, blah. I don't believe that. Calvinists do, though. Maybe not you, I don't know. I never know who I'm talking to when they profess Calvinism. Snore...

Actually, I meant "unlimited atonement" as in Arminianism.

I can't keep up with the terms of all these theories, distillation, and creeds. Sue me.

Trying to keep up with the different recipes of Calvinism is just a great big, fat bore.

Aren't you usually a pretty nice guy when no one's challenging your acronym?

If it is all a big bore, why are you posting about it then? so far you are complaining but not presenting any kind of defense for your belief in Armenianism.

 

[Johann]

Armenianism.

Very simple, we follow Christ. No need to boast and you are boasting.
J.

 

[BarneyFife]

Hi Johann. You and I haven't conversed much, I must confess to being just a tad intimidated by your understanding of scripture, and although I may not entirely agree with some of your points, I do see I think where you are coming from, and I don't fancy myself as being equipped to tackle you on those points. There is one thing however I would like to, hesitatingly, propose in response to your statement above.
I agree with all your scriptures (I believe scripture) that deal with God's immediate response to the sinner's expression of faith, which in his turn is a response to God's calling and conviction. My proposition?
To consider the OT sanctuary services as a type of the gospel. It is often spoken in current Christian circles of the "finished work of the cross", but in a context that suggests immediate irrevocable salvation for those that believe. Now without wanting to get into a OSAS debate, I would like to focus on the role of the priest. Many state we are saved by the blood of the Lamb. That Atonement is made and complete with the death of the sacrifice. I believe there is some confusion among believers on that. Please note the following...

KJV Exodus 29:36-37
36 And thou shalt offer every day a bullock for a sin offering for atonement: and thou shalt cleanse the altar, when thou hast made an atonement for it, and thou shalt anoint it, to sanctify it
37 Seven days thou shalt make an atonement for the altar, and sanctify it; and it shall be an altar most holy: whatsoever toucheth the altar shall be holy

KJV Exodus 29:37
37 Seven days thou shalt make an atonement for the altar, and sanctify it; and it shall be an altar most holy: whatsoever toucheth the altar shall be holy

KJV Exodus 32:30
30 And it came to pass on the morrow, that Moses said unto the people, Ye have sinned a great sin: and now I will go up unto the LORD; peradventure I shall make an atonement for your sin

KJV Leviticus 4:20
20 And he shall do with the bullock as he did with the bullock for a sin offering, so shall he do with this: and the priest shall make an atonement for them, and it shall be forgiven them

KJV Leviticus 4:35
35 And he shall take away all the fat thereof, as the fat of the lamb is taken away from the sacrifice of the peace offerings; and the priest shall burn them upon the altar, according to the offerings made by fire unto the LORD: and the priest shall make an atonement for his sin that he hath committed, and it shall be forgiven him

Now I could cite dozens more along the same lines. Do you notice that while the blood of the offering is essential to the process, it is the priest himself who actually makes the Atonement.
At Calvary, outside the gate of the city, sacrifice was made. Just as in the OT type, the sacrifice was offered outside the Tabernacle. But this raises a very important question. Where is the priest who ministered the blood in the sanctuary? When did Jesus become our High Priest that He could make Atonement for us?
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Redemption is simple for us, but it is complicated for God (He has been working on it for 6000 years), Who is well able to shoulder it, however. :)

 

[BarneyFife]

@Johann

Accidentally quoted you in that last post. :

 

[BarneyFife]

Then you do not understand the issues.

I think I understand the issues I need to understand, for now, anyway.

YOu believe in Armenian ism, whether you wish to use His name or not!

Well, you'd know my thoughts better than I would, natch.

I use them for emphasis. That is what I am telling.

Desperation is what lots and lots of emphasis usually indicates.
But, hey, you do you, brother.

If it is all a big bore, why are you posting about it then? so far you are complaining but not presenting any kind of defense for your belief in Armenianism.

Why would I bother to defend something to which I have no loyalty?
Most forms of Calvinism are bunk. That's what this thread is all about.
The longer you stay on a high horse, the harder it is to come down, I hear.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

..and "we" are not..well done, see you at the pearly gates.
J.

If you are born again - you are! Every one saved is the elect! The unsaved are the unelect!

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Very simple, we follow Christ. No need to boast and you are boasting.
J.

Well I will keep my own counsel as to my intents thank you. but you are free to think of me as you wish.

 

[Johann]

but you are free to think of me as you wish.

Seems like I am going to apologize to everyone..would you accept?
J.

 

[BarneyFife]

If you are born again - you are! Every one saved is the elect! The unsaved are the unelect!

"Unelect"

Can't find that in my Bible.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Well, you'd know my thoughts better than I would, natch.

When it comes to this particular argument, one holds either to a form of Calvinism in these 5 points or they hold to Armenianism in a form in these 5 points. If there is more than two I have not heard of the m.

 

[Johann]

If you are born again

..since I was a young gun and still going by the grace of our Lord.
J.

 

[Johann]

Can't find that in my Bible.

An astute observation
J.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I think I understand the issues I need to understand, for now, anyway.

Maybe for now, but I am not part of reformed theology and I know you lack understanding of many of the five points and their arguments.

Desperation is what lots and lots of emphasis usually indicates.
But, hey, you do you, brother.

Maybe for you , but not for me.

Why would I bother to defend something to which I have no loyalty?
Most forms of Calvinism are bunk. That's what this thread is all about.
The longer you stay on a high horse, the harder it is to come down, I hear.

Because like it or not you are an Armenianist in this argument- like it or not. to reject teh five points of Calvin is to accept the five points of Jacob Armenius!

And I walk. I don't like horses!

 

[BarneyFife]

When it comes to this particular argument, one holds either to a form of Calvinism in these 5 points or they hold to Armenianism in a form in these 5 points. If there is more than two I have not heard of the m.

Well, then, there must not be any.

Or maybe there's a smoothly paved, narrow way between those two ditches.

I'm just thinking out loud here.

I just can't warm up to creeds so much.

 

[Johann]

When it comes to this particular argument, one holds either to a form of Calvinism in these 5 points or they hold to Armenianism in a form in these 5 points. If there is more than two I have not heard of the m

Barn' and I don't hold to -isms

We praise God that we am not under divine obligation to
follow either Calvinism or Arminianism. It smacks of
Corinthian carnality: “For while one saith, I am of Calvin;
and another, I am of Arminius; are ye not carnal?”
J.

 

[BarneyFife]

When it comes to this particular argument, one holds either to a form of Calvinism in these 5 points or they hold to Armenianism in a form in these 5 points. If there is more than two I have not heard of the m.

Maybe God isn't keen on being stuffed into a 5-point box?

Maybe the Bible is really all about something different, entirely.

Like...

Jesus?

Just a thought

 

[BarneyFife]

Maybe for now, but I am not part of reformed theology and I know you lack understanding of many of the five points and their arguments.




Maybe for you , but not for me.



Because like it or not you are an Armenianist in this argument- like it or not. to reject teh five points of Calvin is to accept the five points of Jacob Armenius!

And I walk. I don't like horses!

Good for you, Mr. Nolette. :)

 

[Johann]

Good for you, Mr. Nolette.

Hey, I love horses, grew up on a farm..
J.