Run AWAY from Calvinism!

[Lambano]

Paul said very much the same thing.

I guess he turned out okay.

 

[Truman]

Godly sorrow leads to true repentance. True repentance leads to lasting change.

 

[Johann]

its actually not hard to determine if you are of the elect right now…. Are you producing good fruit?? If so, then you are of the elect.

I don't "work" my fruit. It is the indwelling Holy Spirit that that produces that in me, giving outward evidence of the reality and testimony in Christ.

 

[Lambano]

on the contrary, it is my faith and trust in Jesus that lets me know im not saved. If Jesus is fair, honest and just on judgement day, then theres no way He’ll save me. You cannot live the way i do and think you’ll be saved. You’d be hard pressed to find a person more deserving of hell than me.

So, you perceived that your master is a harsh man? Have you EVER perceived Him to be gracious to sinners such as ourselves? The One who was said to be a friend of drunks and traitors and crooks and hookers?

No wonder you can't repent.

 

[Johann]

So, you perceived that your master is a harsh man? Have you EVER perceived Him to be gracious to sinners such as ourselves? The One who was said to be a friend of drunks and traitors and crooks and hookers?

No wonder you can't repent.

He has no assurance because of this Lambano


The Puritan doctrine of progressive salvation emerged
from Calvin. The English Reformation was initiated by
Royal fat, with no requirement of instant, personal
conversion testimonies. This resulted in many Puritans
preaching a legalistic-sounding, sacramental gospel that
offered no assurance of salvation. (See Edmund
Morgan, Visible Saints: Te History of a Puritan Idea.)
J.

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

Godly sorrow leads to true repentance. True repentance leads to lasting change.

this guy ^^^^^ gets it.

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

So, you perceived that your master is a harsh man? Have you EVER perceived Him to be gracious to sinners such as ourselves? The One who was said to be a friend of drunks and traitors and crooks and hookers?

No wonder you can't repent.

gracious in what way?? I have never understood why everyone always seems to say God is gracious, or God shows mercy.
Is God just?? Yes!
Is God fair?? Yes!
Is God honest?? Yes.
Are we all sinners?? Yes!
So if God is just and fair, and we are all sinners, please explain how you think seeing God on judgement day is gonna be some wonderful Woodstock event, when in reality, it will be petrifying, terrifying, and just plain scary.

we each will have to stand in front of Him and explain ourselves for every single word, deed, and thought. I cant imagine how terrible that is going to be. Please explain why that sounds like a joyous occasion. And then, as if that isnt bad enough, the angels are gonna separate us, good from bad, and us bad ones get to be thrown into eternal torment. I do not see any of that as being cause for celebration.

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

He has no assurance because of this Lambano


The Puritan doctrine of progressive salvation emerged
from Calvin. The English Reformation was initiated by
Royal fat, with no requirement of instant, personal
conversion testimonies.
J.

i assume you meant sanctification instead of salvation. And yes, sanctification IS progressive. It cant be instantaneous, it would kill us if we were to be made aware of how truly sinful we are all at once.

 

[Johann]

this guy ^^^^^ gets it.

So why is it out of your reach?


The Calvinist doctrine of Total Depravity does not mean
merely that the sinner has no righteousness of his own or that
his heart is depraved. It means also that his will is in bondage
to sin in such a fashion that he is unable to believe the gospel.
Further, it means that he must therefore be born again before
he can believe...this is unbiblical
Arthur Pink states this doctrine as follows:
“[W]e have no more to do with our spiritual birth than
we had with our natural birth. ... Faith is not the cause
of the new birth, but the consequence of it. This ought
not to need arguing. ... Faith is a spiritual grace, the fruit
of the spiritual nature, and because the unregenerate are
spiritually dead--‘dead in trespasses and sins’--then it
follows that faith from them is impossible, for a dead
man cannot believe anything”...this is not what the scriptures says but what Pink is saying..


(The Sovereignty of God,
pp. 57, 73).

Can't you see?
J.

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

So why is it out of your reach?


The Calvinist doctrine of Total Depravity does not mean
merely that the sinner has no righteousness of his own or that
his heart is depraved. It means also that his will is in bondage
to sin in such a fashion that he is unable to believe the gospel.
Further, it means that he must therefore be born again before
he can believe...this is unbiblical
Arthur Pink states this doctrine as follows:
“[W]e have no more to do with our spiritual birth than
we had with our natural birth. ... Faith is not the cause
of the new birth, but the consequence of it. This ought
not to need arguing. ... Faith is a spiritual grace, the fruit
of the spiritual nature, and because the unregenerate are
spiritually dead--‘dead in trespasses and sins’--then it
follows that faith from them is impossible, for a dead
man cannot believe anything”...this is not what the scriptures says but what Pink is saying..


(The Sovereignty of God,
pp. 57, 73).

Can't you see?
J.

actually it IS Biblical. Regeneration happens first, then faith.

 

[Johann]

i assume you meant sanctification instead of salvation. And yes, sanctification IS progressive. It cant be instantaneous, it would kill us if we were to be made aware of how truly sinful we are all at once.

Quote from Calvin...


Calvin may have regarded his
“conversion” as one of many stages in a lifelong
progressive salvation. Be that as it may, by equating the
terms conversion, repentance, and regeneration,
Calvin clearly teaches progressive salvation. He speaks
of a “commencement of conversion,” whereby “God
begins his good work in us” (Calvin, Institutes of the
Christian Religion 2.3.6). “The whole of conversion,” says
C a l v i n , “ i s u n d e r s t o o d u n d e r t h e t e r m
repentance” (Calvin, Institutes, 3.3.5.). “In one word,
then, by repentance I understand regeneration.” To those
professing Christ, “God assigns repentance as the goal
towards which they must keep running during the
whole course of their lives” (Calvin, Institutes, 3.3.9).

So you agree that Calvin is in error on "progressive salvation?"

 

[Johann]

actually it IS Biblical. Regeneration happens first, then faith.

Are you referring to baptismal regeneration?

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

Quote from Calvin...


Calvin may have regarded his
“conversion” as one of many stages in a lifelong
progressive salvation. Be that as it may, by equating the
terms conversion, repentance, and regeneration,
Calvin clearly teaches progressive salvation. He speaks
of a “commencement of conversion,” whereby “God
begins his good work in us” (Calvin, Institutes of the
Christian Religion 2.3.6). “The whole of conversion,” says
C a l v i n , “ i s u n d e r s t o o d u n d e r t h e t e r m
repentance” (Calvin, Institutes, 3.3.5.). “In one word,
then, by repentance I understand regeneration.” To those
professing Christ, “God assigns repentance as the goal
towards which they must keep running during the
whole course of their lives” (Calvin, Institutes, 3.3.9).

So you agree that Calvin is in error on "progressive salvation?"

i think you and whoever wrote that misunderstand what calvin said. Calvin put those 3 terms as one event. Those 3 words, conversions, regeneration, and repentance all mean the same thing.

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

Are you referring to baptismal regeneration?

regeneration as in a person is justified. Baptism is not what justifies us.

 

[Johann]

i think you and whoever wrote that misunderstand what calvin said. Calvin put those 3 terms as one event. Those 3 words, conversions, regeneration, and repentance all mean the same thing.

You are not answering my question.
Baptismal regeneration -True or false?
Progressive salvation- True or false?

 

[Johann]

regeneration as in a person is justified. Baptism is not what justifies us.

This is not what Calvin proposes, so would you say he is in error?

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

You are not answering my question.
Baptismal regeneration -True or false?
Progressive salvation- True or false?

i did answer it. But let me say it more slowly, calvin never said what you are saying.

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

For Calvin the sacraments are signs that have two functions[3]. Firstly, they act as a seal from the Lord upon human conscience and secondly they are a reciprocal testimony of piety from the believer[4]. So the sacraments are both a sign of a work of God and a response to God. Calvin’s view recognizes the importance of the sacraments as a reciprocal process which is necessitated by the nature of the covenantal relationship between humanity and God.

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

So it would seem that repentance is misunderstood by some. A person that i like to read about is a man named ray comfort. In this article, he offers the best and simplest explanation i have found of repentance. Enjoy.

https://www.livingwaters.com/true-and-false-conversion/

 

[Johann]

i did answer it. But let me say it more slowly, calvin never said what you are saying.

Oh yes, he believed it to be so...


Water “baptism, this holy bath, is a bath of
regeneration” (Art. 21).
“The washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy
Spirit” in Titus 3:5 is the water of baptism.


The First Helvetic Confession (1536), written by
Heinrich Bullinger:


The Westminster Confession (1647) Ch. 28:


Canons of the Synod of Dort (1619) (First Head Art.
17):


The Scotch Confession (1560) (Ch. 21):

The Belgic Confession (1561) (Art. 34):


John Calvin’s Gallican Confession (1559):
“We condemn the papal assemblies. ... Nevertheless, as
some trace of the [true] Church is left in the papacy, ...
and as the efficacy of baptism does not depend upon the
person who administers it, we confess that those
baptized in it do not need a second baptism” (Art. 28).
“Baptism is given as a pledge of our adoption; for by it
[baptism] we are grafed into the body of Christ” (Art.
35).