Run AWAY from Calvinism!

[stunnedbygrace]

I appreciate the input/testimony girl, I really do..you still don't know me (said this in love)
J.

You are the one who said you don’t know what joy is. I only know of you what you say. I connect with what you say about not knowing joy because I was in that place. It is empathy rather than sympathy. I also was without any skills that the world wants.

 

[Lambano]

Brother, I don't have any skills and I don't know what joy is..
Johann.

*Snort*. God has given you skills. Use them to build up your brothers and sisters. (1 Thessalonians 5:11)

I did recognize that you have a joyless faith. I have since learned of the circumstances with your son and allow that this may be part of your joylessness. Nevertheless, I prayed before and will pray again that God grant you joy in the face of suffering. (Colossians 1:24)

 

[APAK]

Why do I not come out and say that? Because that is a strawman argument and not what I believe.

I believe the following.

1. Man, in his sin, will never choose God. He doesn't want God. He does not desire God.
2. God promises all that will believe, all that will choose Him, he will save. The problem is that is nobody. That is not a false promise, it is a genuine promise. A sincere promise, but there are realities to that promise that man doesn't want it.
3. Because nobody wants this, God has decided to show his love and mercy to change the hearts of some to save. The rest he is content to leave in THEIR OWN DECISION to stay in their sin. They are condemned already.
4. Christ paid for the sins of those who would believe in Him.

That is what I believe because that is what Scripture states.

I'm clearly with you on points 1, 2, 3b and 4. Point 3a I would alter a bit. It takes a little explaining.

I believe that because no one naturally wants God and his salvation, he moves to examine and influence the hearts of ALL men, for them to form a decision over time for him. And for many, especially at a younger age, this genuine and 'correct' decision made is not readily noticed as being really a conscious decision. It starts out as a heartfelt bias towards God and his creation first...my wife came to Christ that way during her early years of 8-10 years old. She cannot point to a single day or event where she chose God for salvation.

Now eventhough God influences and interacts in the hearts of ALL people, and supposedly many people have made a choice over time, this does not guarantee salvation for all of them. If and only if a genuine and authentic decision was made authenticated by God, for Christ . This decision could be made our of deception, thinking they said the right things and gave lip service to all scriptures and went to church religiously and prayed a lot, and they even thought they used their own will power over time to really save themselves when that would be utterly impossible.

If over time they continue to deceive themselves, eventhough God attempts to bring them back and win them over during their lifetime, then they are lost and of course God CANNOT choose them fraudulently and without proper justice. God can only go so far to win his love for salvation and not force it upon a person. God wants all to be saved as scripture reads, although it is not possible with especially the real evil folk.

No, God does not play the chance game either. He does not deliberately choose hearts over others by calculating the probability of genuinely choosing him or her in advance like with a 'the survival of the fittest' mentality.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

And I heard you about not being able to have access to books and bibles. I fought very hard my urge to ask for an address where I could send you some of my classics and whatever other gift might help you because I was afraid it would just make you even angrier.

 

[Johann]

You are the one who said you don’t know what joy is. I only know of you what you say. I connect with what you say about not knowing joy because I was in that place. It is empathy rather than sympathy. I also was without any skills that the world wants.

Thank you for the empathy but I don't know nothing re the kosmos, the ertz..all I have is Christ, the Father, the Holy Spirit, my bible and my son.
Johann

 

[reformed1689]

I look around with my mark-1 eyeballs and ask, "Are God's desires currently being done on Earth as it is in Heaven?"

(Everyone here ought to recognize that scriptural allusion!)

You made a claim that God wants to save everyone and did not provide a reference for proof. So why not do it? I know a few references you probably have in mind, taken out of context of course, but you haven't produced one.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

You made a claim that God wants to save everyone and did not provide a reference for proof. So why not do it? I know a few references you probably have in mind, taken out of context of course, but you haven't produced one.

You are being silly. God is not willing that any man should perish. How exactly can that be taken out of context…?

You have quite a few schisms where you say one thing and then say the complete opposite of it. You are trying to teach what other men have taught you when what would help anyone is not that.

 

[Johann]

*Snort*. God has given you skills. Use them to build up your brothers and sisters. (1 Thessalonians 5:11)

I did recognize that you have a joyless faith. I have since learned of the circumstances with your son and allow that this may be part of your joylessness. Nevertheless, I prayed before and will pray again that God grant you joy in the face of suffering. (Colossians 1:24)

Much appreciated *snort, snort* Lol!
J.

 

[reformed1689]

You are being silly. God is not willing that any man should perish. How exactly can that be taken out of context…?

Exactly as you just did. The context is not talking about all and every individual, it is talking about the beloved, the elect. Read the verse. That being said it cannot be talking about all individuals because we know there are some vessels of wrath prepared for destruction. God has no intention of saving everyone.

 

[Johann]

You are being silly. God is not willing that any man should perish. How exactly can that be taken out of context…?

...and the fact that God has no pleasure in the death of a sinner..BUT..not all have faith as it stands written.
I firmly believe the scriptures and entrust myself in Christ, leaning not to my own understanding, as far as possible, relying on the Holy Spirit to give me wisdom and understanding as I read.
J.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Exactly as you just did. The context is not talking about all and every individual, it is talking about the beloved, the elect. Read the verse. That being said it cannot be talking about all individuals because we know there are some vessels of wrath prepared for destruction. God has no intention of saving everyone.

You give us nothing. You cannot build up anyone’s trust. You cannot help us.

 

[Lambano]

You made a claim that God wants to save everyone and did not provide a reference for proof. So why not do it? I know a few references you probably have in mind, taken out of context of course, but you haven't produced one.

You know the scriptures? Good. Now check out the context of what I was saying and to whom I was saying it. I have no intention of getting into a tit-for-tat volley of scriptures. My purpose is to encourage a man who is does not trust God and has just about given up a losing battle against his own sin, to encourage him to trust God and Christ's sacrifice on his behalf. Please either help me, or at least stop being a stumbling block.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

...and the fact that God has no pleasure in the death of a sinner..BUT..not all have faith as it stands written.
I firmly believe the scriptures and entrust myself in Christ, leaning not to my own understanding, as far as possible, relying on the Holy Spirit to give me wisdom and understanding as I read.
J.

We were once one of those who had no trust. Saul once had no faith and even killed those who did. So no one knows another mans future. That’s why we are to judge nothing before the time. That man is bent on arguing how God will not be merciful to some men and we are those who hope always. He can build up no one. He has nothing to offer.

 

[Lambano]

Much appreciated *snort, snort* Lol!

And *snort* takes the lead!
*Snort*: 3
Tsk: 2
Psh: 1
Blech: 1

 

[reformed1689]

You know the scriptures? Good. Now check out the context of what I was saying and to whom I was saying it. I have no intention of getting into a tit-for-tat volley of scriptures. My purpose is to encourage a man who is does not trust God and has just about given up a losing battle against his own sin, to encourage him to trust God and Christ's sacrifice on his behalf. Please either help me, or at least stop being a stumbling block.

If you have to do it with falsehoods then it is worthless.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Lol!
Pfft!

 

[ChristisGod]

I'm clearly with you on points 1, 2, 3b and 4. Point 3a I would alter a bit. It takes a little explaining.

I believe that because no one naturally wants God and his salvation, he moves to examine and influence the hearts of ALL men, for them to form a decision over time for him. And for many, especially at a younger age, this genuine and 'correct' decision made is not readily noticed as being really a conscious decision. It starts out as a heartfelt bias towards God and his creation first...my wife came to Christ that way during her early years of 8-10 years old. She cannot point to a single day or event where she chose God for salvation.

Now eventhough God influences and interacts in the hearts of ALL people, and supposedly many people have made a choice over time, this does not guarantee salvation for all of them. If and only if a genuine and authentic decision was made authenticated by God, for Christ . This decision could be made our of deception, thinking they said the right things and gave lip service to all scriptures and went to church religiously and prayed a lot, and they even thought they used their own will power over time to really save themselves when that would be utterly impossible.

If over time they continue to deceive themselves, eventhough God attempts to bring them back and win them over during their lifetime, then they are lost and of course God CANNOT choose them fraudulently and without proper justice. God can only go so far to win his love for salvation and not force it upon a person. God wants all to be saved as scripture reads, although it is not possible with especially the real evil folk.

No, God does not play the chance game either. He does not deliberately choose hearts over others by calculating the probability of genuinely choosing him or her in advance like with a 'the survival of the fittest' mentality.

Your post reminded me of the parable of the 4 soils. The gospel is for all mankind. How they respond to it is up to them.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

If you have to do it with falsehoods then it is worthless.

If you have to do it without mercy and love, you have nothing but worthless air.

 

[reformed1689]

You give us nothing. You cannot build up anyone’s trust. You cannot help us.

Help with what? Getting a grasp on truth as opposed to the false notion that God is going to save everyone or even desires that all individuals be saved? The Bible doesn't say that. It says he desires to save those he has chosen to save.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Help with what? Getting a grasp on truth as opposed to the false notion that God is going to save everyone or even desires that all individuals be saved? The Bible doesn't say that. It says he desires to save those he has chosen to save.

My sheep know My voice. They will run from another.