Run AWAY from Calvinism!

[marks]

It means Paul was dead. According to marks it also means he is dead.

Romans 6:3-11 KJV
3) Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4) Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5) For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6) Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7) For he that is dead is freed from sin.
8) Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
9) Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
10) For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
11) Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Is God telling us to believe a lie?

Much love!

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I'm not one to contribute to your evasion of what I was saying. As I said, I don't mind discussing the parable with you, but you've been alluding to your negative opinions of me, I've invited you to just put them out there on the table, as it were. You responded with this. That's not what I was inviting you to do. As a way around that, it's shallow. As it's own discussion, it's valuable, if done well.

This is one of the things you are totally mistaken about me, thinking I want to avoid deep or difficult or hard sayings. You've seemed to completely convince yourself of that, and it hobbles our discussion.

Much love!

Okay then, who are the servants who were entrusted with something?

 

[marks]

Matthew 25:14-30 KJV
14) For the kingdom of heaven is as a man travelling into a far country, who called his own servants, and delivered unto them his goods.
15) And unto one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one; to every man according to his several ability; and straightway took his journey.
16) Then he that had received the five talents went and traded with the same, and made them other five talents.
17) And likewise he that had received two, he also gained other two.
18) But he that had received one went and digged in the earth, and hid his lord's money.
19) After a long time the lord of those servants cometh, and reckoneth with them.
20) And so he that had received five talents came and brought other five talents, saying, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me five talents: behold, I have gained beside them five talents more.
21) His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.
22) He also that had received two talents came and said, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me two talents: behold, I have gained two other talents beside them.
23) His lord said unto him, Well done, good and faithful servant; thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.
24) Then he which had received the one talent came and said, Lord, I knew thee that thou art an hard man, reaping where thou hast not sown, and gathering where thou hast not strawed:
25) And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, there thou hast that is thine.
26) His lord answered and said unto him, Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed:
27) Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and then at my coming I should have received mine own with usury.
28) Take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which hath ten talents.
29) For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath.
30) And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

 

[marks]

Matthew 24:45-51 KJV
45) Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?
46) Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.
47) Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.
48) But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;
49) And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;
50) The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,
51) And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

 

[Johann]

Do you mean, when DOES that happen? Marks says it just magically happens but a man who has struggled and thirsted for righteousness and battled what appears to be in him that he can’t control will just scoff at that. He can clearly see he has not yet died. Dead men don’t shriek when someone steps on their toes.

..yet you seem to have a "strange" doctrine and Marks is gently correcting you.
J.

 

[marks]

Who is the servant?

There wise servants, and evil servants.

There are good and faithful servants, and wicked and slothful servants.

21) His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.

29) For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath.
30) And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

(this will be a work in process for a bit . . .)

Much love!

 

[marks]

Very interesting.
J.

Ephesians 2:6 KJV
6) And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

Colossians 3:3 KJV
3) For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.

Colossians 3:5 KJV
5) Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:

Much love!

 

[Johann]

I call bull on this. Extreme bull.

What's the problem? Marks exposing hidden things?
Who is "working" in the sarxi now?
J.

 

[marks]

Marks says it just magically happens but

Romans 6:3-11 KJV
3) Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4) Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5) For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6) Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7) For he that is dead is freed from sin.
8) Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
9) Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
10) For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
11) Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

How much dead are you looking for?

We are crucified with Christ, and have died in Him, and are alive in the inner man. Now we are to "put to death your members that are upon the earth", the outer man, the fleshy man.

You've become alive in Christ, now live like you are alive in Christ.

Much love!

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Just curious . . . do you see yourself as "crucified to the flesh", and me not?

Much love!

My flesh was put under me over a year ago. My passions no longer toss me around, I no longer defend myself or take offense, even IF someone is awful to me. Before that, I took offense at being treated poorly or even if I wrongly perceived that someone was mean to me, and defended myself always. The opinions of me by others mattered very much to me and I muttered and murdered them in my heart if they dared to think ill of me or treat me poorly. I’m speaking of something I know and have experienced. One moment I was me in all my nauseous glory and the next moment I was free of that awful man. The day before it happened, I had been saying, Lord, I’m just like everyone else. I’m no better than an unbeliever. In fact, some unbelievers are better than me. I lack your love. I should always keep my mouth shut. I cannot help anyone. If you don’t give me love, I am useless to help anyone.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

What's the problem? Marks exposing hidden things?
Who is "working" in the sarxi now?
J.

Yes, he is exposing hidden things, that’s for sure.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

..yet you seem to have a "strange" doctrine and Marks is gently correcting you.
J.

What doctrine is that?

 

[stunnedbygrace]

We are crucified with Christ, and have died in Him, and are alive in the inner man. Now we are to "put to death your members that are upon the earth", the outer man, the fleshy man.

Why are we told to put to death what has already died? Why would a dead man even pick up a cross and follow? Dead men don’t pick up crosses to go to their death. They’re DEAD. It is men still alive who pick up crosses…

 

[Johann]

What doctrine is that?

Don't know, can't put my finger on it yet..01:47 in the morning here..you refuse to stick to biblical terminology and I find that troublesome.
J.

 

[marks]

Matthew 18:23-35 KJV
23) Therefore is the kingdom of heaven likened unto a certain king, which would take account of his servants.
24) And when he had begun to reckon, one was brought unto him, which owed him ten thousand talents.
25) But forasmuch as he had not to pay, his lord commanded him to be sold, and his wife, and children, and all that he had, and payment to be made.
26) The servant therefore fell down, and worshipped him, saying, Lord, have patience with me, and I will pay thee all.
27) Then the lord of that servant was moved with compassion, and loosed him, and forgave him the debt.
28) But the same servant went out, and found one of his fellowservants, which owed him an hundred pence: and he laid hands on him, and took him by the throat, saying, Pay me that thou owest.
29) And his fellowservant fell down at his feet, and besought him, saying, Have patience with me, and I will pay thee all.
30) And he would not: but went and cast him into prison, till he should pay the debt.
31) So when his fellowservants saw what was done, they were very sorry, and came and told unto their lord all that was done.
32) Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me:
33) Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee?
34) And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him.
35) So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.

Ephesians 4:31-32 KJV
31) Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice:
32) And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.

Matthew 6:14-15 KJV
14) For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
15) But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

Colossians 3:13 KJV
13) Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye.

Forgive, so you will be forgiven.

Forgive, because you have been forgiven.

One of those seeming contradictions.

Performance provides being right with God - Covenant of Law

Being right with God provides performance - New Covenant

Much love!

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Don't know, can't put my finger on it yet..01:47 in the morning here..you refuse to stick to biblical terminology and I find that troublesome.
J.

Yes, well I once again assumed people would know what verses I was speaking of. It’s a bad habit of mine.

24 Then Jesus told his disciples, “If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me. 25 For whoever would save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake will find it. 26 For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world and forfeits his soul? Or what shall a man give in return for his soul?

 

[Johann]

They’re DEAD. It is men still alive who pick up crosses…

I really think you should go through the Pauline epistles, since many here are claiming they have read their Bibles from cover to cover but are reposing in the gospels, which is good, but don't want to venture into deeper waters.
Just a thought.
J.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I really think you should go through the Pauline epistles, since many here are claiming they have read their Bibles from cover to cover but are reposing in the gospels, which is good, but don't want to venture into deeper waters.
Just a thought.
J.

What deeper waters?
I look for actual practical help for myself and others.

 

[marks]

Why are we told to put to death what has already died? Why would a dead man even pick up a cross and follow? Dead men don’t pick up crosses to go to their death. They’re DEAD. It is men still alive who pick up crosses…

We're not being told to kill what is already dead.

You have been crucified to your flesh, but your flesh is still there. But when we don't trust that truth, when we are deceived by our flesh as though it is still "me", as though it still has power, we allow the fleshy ways to come back into our thoughts, leading to feelings and actions, that are of the flesh.

Likewise reckon yourself dead to sin and alive to God . . . so you will live that way. We who are in Christ live according to what we think we are. If we think we are a conglomerate of spirit and flesh, we live that way. If we think we are flesh, we live that way. And if we think we are reconciled to God, and liberated from sin as a result, we live that way.

For you have died, and your life is hid with Christ in God . . . mortify therefore your members that are upon the earth.

Much love!

 

[Johann]

Yes, well I once again assumed people would know what verses I was speaking of. It’s a bad habit of mine.

24 Then Jesus told his disciples, “If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me. 25 For whoever would save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake will find it. 26 For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world and forfeits his soul? Or what shall a man give in return for his soul?

Where are you at? The gospels only, not desiring to go into the Pauline epistles..it is like someone standing before the cross, but don't want to go through the cross..
J.