Revelation 17:7-18 Who are these guys?

[CTK]

Okay, I am trying to focus on these very difficult verses that, from what I understand, no one has been able to interpret. But I am sure there is no shortage of opinions out there.

But if you are willing to offer your interpretations - please explain why they are who you believe they are....

 

[Stumpmaster]

Okay, I am trying to focus on these very difficult verses that, from what I understand, no one has been able to interpret. But I am sure there is no shortage of opinions out there.

But if you are willing to offer your interpretations - please explain why they are who you believe they are....

 

[CTK]

View attachment 55165

Thanks! So who are the 5 that have fallen?

 

[Douggg]

I am only going to explain Revelation 17:8-11, because there is too much for one post for all the verses to verse 18.

Note that there are things going on in Revelation 17 that are in the spiritual world, and things going on in the tangible world.


Revelation 17:
7 And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns.

my comment: the beast that is scarlet is Satan. Ridden by a woman called a whore.

The angel then proceeds to reveal that there is a mystery about Satan and a mystery about whore in verse 8 .
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8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

my comment: The mystery about Satan is - how can he be was, is not, then ascend out of the bottomless pit and go into perdition ?

The answer is - Satan made a pact with the garden of Eden serpent beast, that speaking through the serpent beast, Satan got Adam and Eve to sin. The spirit of the serpent beast will ascend out of the bottomless pit and possess the end times beast-king.

The mystery about the woman is - what is the inscription on her head "MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH" about?

The answer is - the impact that Satan's spiritual kingdom, referred to as Babylon the Great, has lead astray mankind to harlot-like religions and abominable spiritual beliefs. Including impacting the woman, turned whore.

Then in verse 9, the angel proceeds to inform where the woman resides, her home.
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9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

my comment: the location of the woman is centered in Rome.

The woman is the Vatican organization which governs the RCC.

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10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

my comment: The angel informs that there are 7 kings also associated with the location of the woman - that location being Rome.

five fallen:
Julius Caesar
Augustus Caesar
Tiberius
Caligula
Claudius

one is:
Nero

the other not yet come:
the end times little horn person
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11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

my comment: the seventh king, i.e. the end time little horn person, will be killed and brought back to life - as the beast-king - possessed by the unclean spirit of the garden of Eden serpent, that will possess the beast-king's soul.

 

[ewq1938]

Thanks! So who are the 5 that have fallen?

Rev 17:10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.
Rev 17:11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

Whoever they were, the 5 fell already by the time John wrote this. The 6th was falling at that time and most say that was Rome but Rome wasn't falling at that time. The only relevant king/kingdom etc could possibly be the Sanhedrin/Jewish rulers because they had lost a lot of power, and were under the rule of Rome and if written before AD70, the fall of the Jewish priesthood was soon.

 

[Stumpmaster]

Thanks! So who are the 5 that have fallen?

At the time of John receiving and recording this vision the five empires Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Medo-Persia, and Greece, had fallen as the oppressors of God's People. Political Rome was ruling over them in John's day, and Papal Rome was yet to come.

 

[Douggg]

Whoever they were, the 5 fell already by the time John wrote this. The 6th was falling at that time and most say that was Rome but Rome wasn't falling at that time. The only relevant king/kingdom etc could possibly be the Sanhedrin/Jewish rulers because they had lost a lot of power, and were under the rule of Rome and if written before AD70, the fall of the Jewish priesthood was soon.

7 kings - not 7 kingdoms.

 

[ewq1938]

7 kings - not 7 kingdoms.

They are kings who also have/had kingdoms. No such thing as a king without a kingdom.

 

[ewq1938]

At the time of John receiving and recording this vision the five empires Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Medo-Persia, and Greece, had fallen as the oppressors of God's People. Political Rome was ruling over them in John's day, and Papal Rome was yet to come.

The one to come would have a short time so it cannot be Papal Rome.

Rev 17:10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

 

[ScottA]

It is the same as "a time, times, and half a time", only with characters for confusion.

The seven kings and kingdoms are the times of this world divided, half are fallen. The beast are all those born of the beast, who's father is the beast, the fallen. He is of the seven, meaning of the world, and at the sounding of the seventh angel, he is as an eighth which never was. This is not what I "believe" but know.

 

[Douggg]

They are kings who also have/had kingdoms. No such thing as a king without a kingdom.

They are sequential kings of one kingdom.

 

[Douggg]

The seven kings and kingdoms are the times of this world divided, half are fallen.

The text says five are fallen.

 

[ScottA]

The text says five are fallen.

Yes, five is spiritually half.

 

[ewq1938]

They are sequential kings of one kingdom.

Possible since the text does not say much about them. Either they are kings of different kingdoms or kings of the same kingdom.

 

[Stash]

Thanks! So who are the 5 that have fallen?

according to Shepherd Chapel
The five that have fallen are the roles that Satan plays
His first role in the garden was the serpent

His last two roles are going to be the false prophet then the antichrist

The last roll, the antichrist has not happened yet that’s why it is still yet to come
And his time will be short

Revelation 17:11​

“And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.”

And Satan‘s eighth and final roll will be when he’s released after the millennium so he can tempt one more time

So it’s the rolls of Satan that this is talking about
Since Satans going into perdition and that is his other name

 

[Stash]

This has absolutely nothing to do with Rome
John was taken in the spirit to the Lords day
Which is the millennium.
I recommend Shepherd Chapel if you want to understand clearly what it means

Verse by verse chapter by chapter

 

[CTK]

At the time of John receiving and recording this vision the five empires Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Medo-Persia, and Greece, had fallen as the oppressors of God's People. Political Rome was ruling over them in John's day, and Papal Rome was yet to come.

View attachment 55168

Thank you but I am having a problem with Egypt and Assyria - I believe the beginning of all of this starts at the time of Babylon in Daniel and does not look backwards..... maybe wrong but that is where I am at now...

 

[CTK]

This is going to take some serious brainstorming!!! Well, hopefully, it won't be anywhere as difficult as chapter 11 of Daniel.

 

[Douggg]

Yes, five is spiritually half.

five is spiritually half of seven ?

What number then is spiritually half of ten ?

 

[Douggg]

according to Shepherd Chapel
The five that have fallen are the roles that Satan plays
His first role in the garden was the serpent

There is a You Tube video in which Arnold Murray of Shepard's Chapel gives his interpretation of the 7 kings in Revelation 17:10. Which he comes up with his interpretation of the 7 kings as a mixture of kingdoms and persons - (1) Babylon, then (2) Medo-persia, then (3) Greece, then (4) Rome, then (5) Muslim empire, then (6) the Jews since 1948, then (7) the Antichrist.

What Shepherd's chapel source are you referring to that claims, differently, i.e. "The five that have fallen are the roles that Satan plays" ? Do you have a link ?