Revelation 13:17-18 (666)

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VictoryinJesus

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Thank you very much for your response... The Scriptures are so difficult to interpret and even more difficult to try and put them into a writing that makes sense .... and, if the interpretation is off, then everything else that follows is truly worlthless... Anyway, please tell me what part of the comment was not clear or not understandable or not what you think the verses tell you.... I would be happy to respond - again, it is only my interpretation ... but I am comfortable with it / them .... until they are not.....
I liked your post and can’t say there was anything other than ‘The Vatican’s historical role’

It made sense to me what you shared about counterfeits. Where my hesitation comes in is, while yes, what you shared concerning the Vatican is a great observation. I can also see the origin could also be the adulteress woman who sits a queen and says she is no widow and how much she glorifies herself. Jerusalem? That takes me to Romans 7 where Paul tries to tell them they are crucified with Christ. Dead and the Life they now Live, they Live in Christ to bring forth fruit unto God. Yet the adulterous Woman keeps denying her husband is dead, saying, “I am no Widow!”

I also struggle with the sole focus being on the Vatican as the “Vicar of Christ" and the doctrine of papal infallibility.” Because we all sometimes act like “the vicar of Christ” and the doctrine we speak as infallible. It’s a mindset (Imo). As I explained earlier how it even goes back to the times of pyramids being built. is the Vatican just a drop in the bucket…and the overall picture isn’t about pointing fingers but instead vanity, pride and emptiness in seeking things that never satisfy. That includes us all.

I’ll give you an example…if I spend my whole life trying to expose the Vatican, then I have ignored the way I also act as the “Vicar of Christ” and to be careful to remember I’m not infallible. But if I’m stuck on the Vatican, I’ve refused to look deep within myself which might be more important in the overall picture from the beginning to the end.
 
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CTK

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I liked your post and can’t say there was anything other than ‘The Vatican’s historical role’

It made sense to me what you shared about counterfeits. Where my hesitation comes in is, while yes, what you shared concerning the Vatican is a great observation. I can also see the origin could also be the adulteress woman who sits a queen and says she is no widow and how much she glorifies herself. Jerusalem? That takes me to Romans 7 where Paul tries to tell them they are crucified with Christ. Dead and the Life they now Live, they Live in Christ to bring forth fruit unto God. Yet the adulterous Woman keeps denying, saying, “I am no Widow!”

I also struggle with the sole focus being on the Vatican as the “Vicar of Christ" and the doctrine of papal infallibility.” Because we all sometimes act like “the vicar of Christ” and the doctrine we speak as infallible. It’s a mindset (Imo). As I explained earlier how it even goes back to the times of pyramids being built. is the Vatican just a drop in the bucket…and the overall picture isn’t about pointing fingers but instead vanity, pride and emptiness in seeking things that never satisfy. That includes us all.
Thank you for your thoughts! No, I don’t see the little horn (papacy / harlot) either temporary or insignificant.

In fact, he / they represent the actors in Daniel and Revelation that go against God and His people - and His people are both Jew and Greek that have accepted Him as their Lord and Savior.

After the cross, His apostles went out into the pagan Roman Empire to preach the Good News to the Gentiles. The church grew exponentially, and by the 300 AD time, the church was dominated by Gentiles who also wanted nothing to do with the Jews. Effectively, the church was almost all Gentiles run by the 4 major Christian centers in the Empire (Rome, Alexandria, Jerusalem and Antioch), that were ruled by a powerful bishop and his team of priests, etc. Each of the 4 centers wanted to become the head of the Christian church.

In 467 AD, or around that time, pagan Rome would see its demise (Daniel 7:11). Now, the power struggle became real and the bishop of Rome, with the decree by Justinian in 538 AD was made head over the entire church AND they also took over control of all secular matters (they merged church and state). They brought in pagan practices, changed or altered the 10 commandments, declared the pope as “divine “ or God on earth, and idols, so many things that deviated from God’s Word. They placed the pope as their Lord center of worship over God. He claimed divinity, infallibility, could even forgive sin and the only way to heaven is through the Universal / Catholic Church.

So, can you see just how far their teachings and practices and doctrines conflict DEEPLY with the Word of God? If one were to write on a piece of paper all the things NOT TO DO in worshipping God, their list would be quite revealing.

So this little horn rose to power AFTER the cross. He came into existence only as a result of the cross- he was part of the converted Gentiles that came to dominate the church and appropriated His 10 commandments and then preach a very different Gospel. And all of this was prophesied in Daniel 7 and 8. This is the one that must continue until the end when God will destroy him without human hands.

In Revelation, the little horn is the harlot that sits atop the beast - the beast being the papal Roman system that replaced pagan Rome after their demise and became “exceedingly powerful” - Daniel.

In Revelation, he is also represents the 4 horsemen of the Apocalypse. Each of the 4 horsemen describes the different ways they will go against God’s kingdom on earth.

I think I have gone off on a tangent… but I think you can see how this “little horn” continues until the very end.
 

VictoryinJesus

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I think I have gone off on a tangent… but I think you can see how this “little horn” continues until the very end.
I don’t mind the tangent. I’ve not study these passages as you have. My husband could talk to you about it more than I can. I only went back this morning to take a look at the verses you asked about in your OP and shared what stood out there to me. I really don’t know much about the topic. I think I have heard before some suggest the little horn is Jesus. I haven’t studied it enough to say either way. I do see where you are coming from but again, I haven’t read it in a long time.

This is the one that must continue until the end when God will destroy him without human hands.
I do have a question about this though. How will God destroy him without human hands?
 

Douggg

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I think I have gone off on a tangent… but I think you can see how this “little horn” continues until the very end.
Then how do the 42 months of Revelation 13:5 apply to the papacy/popes (of your view) ?
 

ewq1938

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Neither Japan, nor German, are the mortally wounded head that will be worshiped. Are you trying to understand the bible or just arguing with me out of habit ?

I am expalining how a country/land can be wounded by a sword/war and heal afterward. The wounded head is land that had a war that was very terrible, but it heals in the same way Japan healed from the atomic bombs of WW2.




The mortally wound head is the yet to come king,


No, a mountain is not a king.


that continues the short space - the 42 months of Revelation 13:5.

Revelation 17:
9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.


Verse 9 and 10 are completely different subjects.
 

ewq1938

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Each "6" in 666 reflects the failure of this counterfeit trinity to achieve divine perfection. Where 7 represents completeness and divine perfection, 666 symbolizes imperfection and the ultimate futility of Satan’s rebellion. In addition to symbolizing the unholy trinity, 666 represents the beast’s practical methods of control and deception:

Individual Level (6):


The number is not three 6's but 600, 60 and 6. There is only one singular number 6 in the overall concept, which is 3 separate numbers in the Greek.
 

Douggg

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I am expalining how a country/land can be wounded by a sword/war and heal afterward. The wounded head is land that had a war that was very terrible, but it heals in the same way Japan healed from the atomic bombs of WW2.
The mortally/wounded but healed head (king) will be worshiped.
 

ewq1938

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The mortally/wounded but healed head (king) will be worshiped.

No, the text does not say any head is worshipped. It is the entire beast of 7 heads and ten horns that is worshipped.

Rev 13:12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.

See? It's the whole beast not any particular head of the beast being worshipped. You are reading and remembering it wrong.

You think it says this:

And he exerciseth all the power of the 7th head before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the 7th head, whose deadly wound was healed.

It does not say that though.
 

Douggg

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No, the text does not say any head is worshipped. It is the entire beast of 7 heads and ten horns that is worshipped.

Rev 13:12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.

See? It's the whole beast not any particular head of the beast being worshipped. You are reading and remembering it wrong.
The first beast is both a kingdom and its king. The king is the mortally wounded, but healed head.

The false prophet has a statue image made of the beast-king and requires people to worship the statue image. And those who refuse will be killed. Revelation 13:15.
 

ewq1938

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The first beast is both a kingdom and its king.


Nope. It is an empire composed of ten kings and kingdoms located in 7 areas of land. The king or ruler of the first beast is the second beast, the FP.

The king is the mortally wounded, but healed head.

The false prophet has a statue image made of the beast-king and requires people to worship the statue image. And those who refuse will be killed. Revelation 13:15.

The image is of the empire he rules not of an imaginary person the text does not speak of.

Ten horned/7 headed beast = EMPIRE
false prophet = leader of that empire.

There is no other singular leader/king anywhere in the book, or in the bible regarding the end times AC figure. He is always alone, with his ten kings. Even babylon isn't a person.
 

CTK

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The number is not three 6's but 600, 60 and 6. There is only one singular number 6 in the overall concept, which is 3 separate numbers in the Greek.
I thought that is what I was presenting?
 

CTK

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I don’t mind the tangent. I’ve not study these passages as you have. My husband could talk to you about it more than I can. I only went back this morning to take a look at the verses you asked about in your OP and shared what stood out there to me. I really don’t know much about the topic. I think I have heard before some suggest the little horn is Jesus. I haven’t studied it enough to say either way. I do see where you are coming from but again, I haven’t read it in a long time.


I do have a question about this though. How will God destroy him without human hands?
God’s plan to destroy the beast and the false prophet reflects His ultimate authority and justice. Despite the beast's (papal Rome / papacy) dominance and the awe it inspires—where it is said, "Who is like the beast, and who can make war against it?" (Revelation 13:4)—God alone will bring its reign to an end. Human hands will not overthrow this oppressive system; instead, the Lord Himself will act decisively, casting the beast and the false prophet into the lake of fire (Revelation 19:20). This demonstrates that no earthly power can rival God’s sovereignty, and even the mightiest empires are subject to His judgment. The beast will not be destroyed by man or its military powers.... but God will alone deal with him.
 

Douggg

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The image is of the empire he rules not of an imaginary person the text does not speak of.

Ten horned/7 headed beast = EMPIRE
false prophet = leader of that empire.

Ten horned/7 headed beast = EMPIRE which has mortally wounded but healed head which is the king of that EMPIRE

false prophet = a religious person who promotes the beast-king, king 8 of Revelation 17:11.
 

ewq1938

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Ten horned/7 headed beast = EMPIRE which has mortally wounded but healed head which is the king of that EMPIRE

wounded head or mountain not a wounded person. That isn't in the text at all.


false prophet = a religious person who promotes the beast-king, king 8 of Revelation 17:11.

No, he promotes his own kingdom to be worshiped which is the same as worshiping him like Hitler wanting people to worship the 3rd Reich, which was his kingdom of Nazi's. There is no human above the FP, in authority or in worship. The FP is not only the highest human authority, but also can perform miracles just like Paul's man of sin who most understand is the antichrist. The miracle worker is the AC.
 

ewq1938

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No, re-read it .. 6, 60, 600.
What is your interpretation of this?


IMO is likely the number of someone's name using letters as numbers. It is unclear which language would be used to represent added numbers. Some think Hebrew, some Greek and some think English, etc etc. I would rely more on what they do rather than trying to calculate/count their name to get a 666 total result.
 

CTK

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IMO is likely the number of someone's name using letters as numbers. It is unclear which language would be used to represent added numbers. Some think Hebrew, some Greek and some think English, etc etc. I would rely more on what they do rather than trying to calculate/count their name to get a 666 total result.
Ok, why don’t you comment on my interpretation…. And by the way, this interpretation also fits with the 3 Greek translations for 6, 60, and 600.
 

ewq1938

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Ok, why don’t you comment on my interpretation…. And by the way, this interpretation also fits with the 3 Greek translations for 6, 60, and 600.


Each "6" in 666 reflects the failure of this counterfeit trinity to achieve divine perfection. Where 7 represents completeness and divine perfection, 666 symbolizes imperfection and the ultimate futility of Satan’s rebellion. In addition to symbolizing the unholy trinity, 666 represents the beast’s practical methods of control and deception:

Individual Level (6): The mark associated with 666 (Revelation 13:16) demands personal allegiance in thought (forehead) and action (hand). Individuals are compelled to align their beliefs and deeds with the beast’s counterfeit system, replacing devotion to God with submission to human authority.

Again, there is one individual 6 in the 666. It is not an "unholy Trinity" either.

The number is not three 6's but 600, 60 and 6. There is only one singular number 6 in the overall concept, which is 3 separate numbers in the Greek.
 

Douggg

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wounded head or mountain not a wounded person. That isn't in the text at all.
Yes, it is in the text that the mortally wounded, but healed head is a person, a man.

Revelation 13;18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.


No, he promotes his own kingdom to be worshiped which is the same as worshiping him like Hitler wanting people to worship the 3rd Reich, which was his kingdom of Nazi's. There is no human above the FP, in authority or in worship. The FP is not only the highest human authority, but also can perform miracles just like Paul's man of sin who most understand is the antichrist. The miracle worker is the AC.

Revelation 16:13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.

That is three individuals who speak, convincing the kings of the earth to gather their armies at Armageddon to make war on Jesus and His armies of heaven.

1. out of the mouth of the dragon - Satan indwelling the statue image of the beast king, which the statue image will be able to speak.

2. out of the mouth of the beast - the beast-king, the man, who's number of his name is 666

3. out of the mouth of the false prophet - a religious figure who promotes the beast-king.

In Revelation 19, John sees the individual beast person and the false prophet person cast alive into the lake of fire. Alive. because they are two men.

Revelation 19:

19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.

20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
 
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