Reply: Call no man father

[theefaith]

That is such blatant heresy. It's idolatry... It's blasphemy... It's Antichrist. But hey, it's Catholic, so par for the course.

you’re saying Jesus Christ is rotten fruit???

 

[theefaith]

That is such blatant heresy. It's idolatry... It's blasphemy... It's Antichrist. But hey, it's Catholic, so par for the course.

it’s right there in scry

 

[theefaith]

Scripture

 

[Brakelite]

you’re saying Jesus Christ is rotten fruit???

He isn't fruit at all. He's the Vine, the source of all things. Not Mary.

 

[Brakelite]

Elizabeth doesn't call Mary a tree. She said Jesus was the fruit of the womb. Nothing more, nothing less. Your attempt to make the righteousness of Christ dependant upon the righteousness of Mary is Antichrist.

 

[theefaith]

He isn't fruit at all. He's the Vine, the source of all things. Not Mary.

That’s true but she is his mother and he is our salvation hence mother of our salvation
Found favor with God Lk 1:30

Queen Esther is a type of Mary and she saved her people too

Queen Esther
Fair Esther 2:7
Mary all fair Song of Solomon 4:12
Found Favor Esther 2:17
Mary found favor with God Lk 1:30
Esther saves her people interceding with the king
Mary provides the savior of the world!
Lk 2:10-11

2 Tim 2:8 Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel:

2 Tim 2: 21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work. How much more Mary who was prepared by God thru the immaculate conception! Lk 1:49

Heb 2:7

Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands

Rev12:1 woman clothed with the sun.

 

[theefaith]

Can charity cover sins?

 

[ChristisGod]

Can charity cover sins?

Here is your Biblical answer to your question regarding love covering sin.

1-Gods unconditional love. How many times do we sin against God and He forgives us our transgressions against Him? Psalm 103:12- He has removed our sins as far from us as the east is from the west. Isaiah 43:25- I, yes I, am He who blots out your transgressions for My own sake and remembers your sins no more.


2- Love is the #1-character trait of a believer. The fruit of the spirit is Love from which all the fruit of the spirit flows. 1 Corinthians 13:2-7 describes love in action.

If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. 3 If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast, but do not have love, I gain nothing.

4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.


3- Husbands are to love their wives as Christ loved the church and gave Himself up for her. Ephesians 5:25.There are no conditions Jesus places on His bride. Jesus doesn’t hold her sins and unfaithfulness against her. He covers her sin, forgives and protects her.


4- Loving those who love you is not Gods love that is human love. Jesus said in Luke 6:32-33 “If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners love those who love them. And indeed, if you do good to those doing good to you, what credit is it to you? For even sinners do the same. Luke 6:35- But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. Then your reward will be great, and you will be children of the Most High, because he is kind to the ungrateful and wicked.

1 John 4:20- If anyone says, "I love God," but hates his brother, he is a liar. For anyone who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot love God, whom he has not seen.

miseó: to hate

Original Word: μισέω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: miseó
Phonetic Spelling: (mis-eh'-o)
Definition: to hate
Usage: I hate, detest, love less, esteem less. properly, to detest (on a comparative basis); hence, denounce; to love someone or something less than someone (something) else, i.e. to renounce one choice in favor of another.


5- Love covers a multitude of sins, it doesn’t expose sin.

1 Peter 4:8- Above all, keep fervent in your love for one another, because love covers a multitude of sins.

Proverbs 10:12- Hatred stirs up dissension, but love covers all transgressions.

Proverbs 16:28- A perverse man spreads dissension, and a gossip divides close friends.

Proverbs 17:9- Whoever would foster love covers over an offense, but whoever repeats the matter separates close friends.

hope this helps !!!

 

[BreadOfLife]

Here I will help you out....

A new commandment I give you
call no man your father if God is your Father.

Now you may live in your excuses and be in truth.

That's NOT what Jesus said.
You have taken what HE said out of its proper context and created your own context.

Why are you afraid to leave it in its original context?

 

[BreadOfLife]

Elizabeth doesn't call Mary a tree. She said Jesus was the fruit of the womb. Nothing more, nothing less. Your attempt to make the righteousness of Christ dependant upon the righteousness of Mary is Antichrist.

That's FALSE.
Elizabeth calls Mary the "mother of my Lord" (Luke 1:43) - echoing David's exclamation about the Ark of the Covenant:

OT - "Who am I that the Ark of my Lord should come to me?" (2 Sam. 6:9)
NT - "Who am I that the mother of my Lord should come to me?" (Luke 1:43)

She in effect called Mary the mother of GOD.
You think you cn STILL make that claim with a straight face?

 

[chandlere880]

Hello

I have also seen many brothers and sisters of the Catholic Faith mentioning the Ark Of The Covenant but what does the Bible actually say about this ?

Jer 3:16 - The Hebrew returning to God = will be a condition wherein the Jews will not speak of The ark of the covenant neither shall it come to mind: neither shall they remember it; neither shall they visit it; neither shall that be done any more.

Also - Catholics compare the Ark of the Covenant to Mary

but the “ Catholic Holy Spirit “ did not dwell inside the Ark Of The Covenant - the Presence of God dwelled inside the Tabernacle = not inside the Ark

Exo 25:21 And thou shalt put the mercy seat above upon the ark; and in the ark thou shalt put the testimony that I shall give thee. :22 And there I will meet with thee, and I will commune with thee FROM ABOVE THE MERCY SEAT, from between the two cherubims

Exo 25:8 And let them make me a sanctuary; that I may dwell among them.
​

Num 20:6 And Moses and Aaron went from the presence of the assembly unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, and they fell upon their faces: and the glory of the LORD appeared unto them.

Exo 40:34 Then a cloud covered the tent of the congregation, and the glory of the LORD filled the tabernacle.

Exo 40:35 And Moses was not able to enter into the tent of the congregation, because the cloud abode thereon, and the glory of the LORD filled the tabernacle.

So……. we see that the “ Catholic Holy Spirit “ was never ever mentioned as being inside of the Ark of the Covenant, the Presence of God was above the the mercy seat and the mercy seat was above the Ark of the Covenant

The written scrolls were placed inside the Ark of the Covenant - there was no “ Catholic Holy Spirit “ inside the Ark



nor was the Catholic Holy Spirit inside the Tabernacle as a circumstance of the Ark of the Covenant being there,
but the Holy Spirit was always in the Tabernacle regardless of where the Ark was located.
the written word of God dwelled in the Ark - - not the spirit of a Catholic Deity.

also concerning Aarons Rod That Budded​

Num 17:7 - AND MOSES LAID UP THE RODS BEFORE THE LORD IN THE TABERNACLE FOR A WITNESS.

THE RODS WERE NEVER SAID TO HAVE BEEN LAID INSIDE THE ARK, Num 17:8 - THE VERY NEXT DAY - the rod of Aaron for the house of Levi was budded, and brought forth buds, and bloomed blossoms, and yielded almonds.

It is not until - the New Testament that Aaron's rod is mentions as having been later stored and kept inside the Ark of the covenant after the fact that the rod had already budded and bloomed - outside of the ark, I believe that the Scriptures would have made these Catholic Comparisons if they truly were truthful realistic comparisons. but these Catholic Comparisons do not exist anywhere in Scriptures.

​

 

[Verily]

That's FALSE.
Elizabeth calls Mary the "mother of my Lord" (Luke 1:43) - echoing David's exclamation about the Ark of the Covenant:

OT - "Who am I that the Ark of my Lord should come to me?" (2 Sam. 6:9)
NT - "Who am I that the mother of my Lord should come to me?" (Luke 1:43)

She in effect called Mary the mother of GOD.
You think you cn STILL make that claim with a straight face?

This is an older post someone had bumped it up and saw "straight face" concerning ark, made me think of Joshua

Josh 7:6 And Joshua rent his clothes, and fell to the earth upon his face before the ark of the LORD until the eventide, he and the elders of Israel, and put dust upon their heads.

And Joshua starts crying out to the LORD on his face before the ark

Josh 7:10 And the LORD said unto Joshua,

Get thee up; wherefore liest thou thus upon thy face?

 

[BreadOfLife]

Hello

I have also seen many brothers and sisters of the Catholic Faith mentioning the Ark Of The Covenant but what does the Bible actually say about this ?

Jer 3:16 - The Hebrew returning to God = will be a condition wherein the Jews will not speak of The ark of the covenant neither shall it come to mind: neither shall they remember it; neither shall they visit it; neither shall that be done any more.

Also - Catholics compare the Ark of the Covenant to Mary

but the “ Catholic Holy Spirit “ did not dwell inside the Ark Of The Covenant - the Presence of God dwelled inside the Tabernacle = not inside the Ark

Exo 25:21 And thou shalt put the mercy seat above upon the ark; and in the ark thou shalt put the testimony that I shall give thee. :22 And there I will meet with thee, and I will commune with thee FROM ABOVE THE MERCY SEAT, from between the two cherubims

Exo 25:8 And let them make me a sanctuary; that I may dwell among them.
​

Num 20:6 And Moses and Aaron went from the presence of the assembly unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, and they fell upon their faces: and the glory of the LORD appeared unto them.

Exo 40:34 Then a cloud covered the tent of the congregation, and the glory of the LORD filled the tabernacle.

Exo 40:35 And Moses was not able to enter into the tent of the congregation, because the cloud abode thereon, and the glory of the LORD filled the tabernacle.

So……. we see that the “ Catholic Holy Spirit “ was never ever mentioned as being inside of the Ark of the Covenant, the Presence of God was above the the mercy seat and the mercy seat was above the Ark of the Covenant

The written scrolls were placed inside the Ark of the Covenant - there was no “ Catholic Holy Spirit “ inside the Ark

nor was the Catholic Holy Spirit inside the Tabernacle as a circumstance of the Ark of the Covenant being there,
but the Holy Spirit was always in the Tabernacle regardless of where the Ark was located.
the written word of God dwelled in the Ark - - not the spirit of a Catholic Deity.​

Not sure what this has to do with Matt. 23:8-10 - but I'll address your point about Mary and the Ark.

The WORD of God was carried inside the Ark.
Jesus is the WORD of God (John 1:1).

OT - The Tabernacle that housed the Ark was overshadowed by the cloud of glory of the Lord (Shekinah glory) filled the Tabernacle (2 Chron. 5:13-14).
NT - Mary was overshadowed by the power of the Most High (Luke 1:35).

OT - The Word was written by God on Tablets of Stone (Ex. 25:10) placed inside the Ark (Deut. 10:1)
NT - The Word of God became Flesh (John 1) conceived inside Mary (Luke 2:38) who carried the Word of God.

OT - "Who am I that the Ark of my Lord should come to me?" (2 Sam. 6:9)
NT - "Who am I that the mother of my Lord should come to me?" (Luke 1:43)

OT - The When the Ark carrying the Word of God returned “David was leaping and dancing before the Lord” (2 Sam. 6:14)
NT - When Mary came into Elizabeth's presence carrying the Word of God, the baby “leaped for joy” in Elizabeth's womb (Luke 2:38).

OT - The Ark carrying the Word of God is brought to the house of Obed-Edom in the hill country of Judea for 3 months, where it was a blessing. (2 Sam. 6:11)
NT - Mary (the new Ark) carrying the Word of God goes to Elizabeth's house in the hill country of Judea for 3 months, where she is a blessing (Luke 1:56)

OT - The Ark is captured (1 Sam 4:11) and brought to a foreign land and later returns (1 Sam 6:13)
NT - Mary (the new Ark) is exiled to a foreign land (Egypt) and later returns (Matt. 2:14)

OT - On the Day of the Dedication of the Temple which Solomon built, there were 120 priests present (2 Chron. 5:11). The Ark of the covenant was carried into the Temple (2 Chron. 5:7) and fire came down from Heaven to consume the burnt offering (2 Chron. 7:7).
NT - On the Day of Pentecost, there were 120 disciples of Jesus present in the Upper Room (Acts 1:15). Mary, the Mother of Jesus and the Ark of the NEW Covenant was also present while the Holy Spirit came down as tongues of fire (Acts 2:3).

 

[chandlere880]

yes,

that is truly amazing and i am in gratitude for my Catholic friends, Roman Catholics have done many, many years of study and dedicated so much to their faith, however I believe that they are in error concerning the Bible and the Lord.

I have learned many things from communicating with Catholics -

but I believe that these comparisons are repeated because of the Spirit or presence of the Lord is working just as it had worked among his people in the past, it is repeating its manner in which it places events and circumstances, why should we specifically believe that this is because of Mary happening to be standing there that is causing this repeating of similar circumstances to repeat themselves in a spiritual effect.

the spiritual realm is very consistent and often the spiritual events follows a pattern, -

even evil spirits are consistent in following specific patterns, the way they operate and function, - Satan was very persistent and focused upon repeating pattern like repetitions of previous scriptures and past events when approaching Jesus. When Moses is performing miracles the evil magicians attempt to repeat exactly what he is doing by throwing down their rods. We see in the last days that the effect of Gods wrath is repeated in similar ways as it was done in ancient Egypt. The water turned into blood, diseases and plagues. This repeating similar circumstances is not repeating itself because of any particular individual specifically but because this is how the spiritual realm works .

also the hill country of Judea is simply a location with allot of hills, could it not be mere coincidence that everyone traveling would go through the hillside ?

furthermore... we see in Luk 2:48

:48 - Mary said to Jesus - Son, - behold, thy FATHER “ JOSEPH “ and I have sought thee sorrowing.

This is not Elizabeth saying this - THIS IS THE BLESSED VIRGIN MARY HERSELF DIRECTLY SAYING THAT “” JOSEPH “”” IS THE LITERAL FATHER OF JESUS, Son, - " YOUR FATHER “ ☞ JOSEPH “ HAS SOUGHT YOU SORROWING.

why is not then - Joseph also the father of God - and James the brother of God .

even in the last days the Antichrist will continue the same pattern as God did in the past and send fire down from heaven,

I do believe that this is not happening because Mary or any one single individual but because the spirit realm and powers of spirituality have ability to repeat themselves and even arrange repeating events to unfold in a similar pattern.

 

[PGS11]

Its not the word father that's the problem its swearing loyalty to anyone but God even your own father did not create you God did he is your Father.Putting someone in that position or putting yourself in that position is what hes talking about.Its in the meaning of how you use the word father not the word itself.Father was a term used of great honor and respect in those times Jesus knew this.He was aiming this at specific people who held themselves in highest esteem and of God.There were pharisees with their own followers and disciples at the time which is who Jesus aimed it at.

Christ’s word about never calling anyone upon the earth their father finds its true meaning in the context of His denunciation of the Pharisees and Rabbinic piety of the time,

Father is a name of honor and can be used in the right way it is not banned from use its how you use the word.People have made using the word father as a horrible sin but that's not the case or what was meant its a bad interpretation focused only on the word..Jesus spoke to teach a lesson in radical ways this is one of them you need to see what hes teaching not the word father.

Similar to a position a cult leader would put themselves in - in the end they all claim to be God or the Savior and its lies but people kneel before them in full belief.Jimmy Jones is a great example he even burned the bible said he was God in his Church and people continued to follow.They called him Father in the wrong way which is what Jesus was talking about.

 

[PGS11]

There is a Christian sect near where I live and the leaders have told the followers they have the power to take away their salvation if they go wrong or stray from the church.Many people came out about it and they are still there running the town - some had to leave the town no one would speak to them anymore.These are the kind of people Jesus is warning about they put themselves in the position of God.The people were really frightened and could only see it when they got away and it really affected their faith.

 

[chandlere880]

yes, i believe that the Bible makes it so very clear

1Co_4:15 For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers:

for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.

Paul is saying that - the new believers are sons of God in the Lord and that he emotionally feels that they are his sons too.

But he does not instruct them to give him a title as Father. the point of the entire situation is that Paul is saying that " new believers " are SONS in Christ Jesus and Paul addresses new believers with him as - SONS. not to imply at any time that he personally is their father in a Spiritual Way .... and Paul Clarifies the clearness of his concern saying that even though - though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet you do not have many fathers:

i was reading carefully through many of the previous posts and studying the scriptures and it is very clear that there are no TITLES of Fathers and Mothers to them that are born again.

I believe that Roman Catholics simply take advantage of the fact that Paul is saying that born again believers are " Sons and Daughters in Christ " and also Paul mentions that somehow he feels as a paternal father to some of the new believers as a literal father. not as a Spiritual Father

Remember Php 2:22 But ye know the proof of him, that, as a son with the father, he hath served with me in the gospel."

Here, Paul is expressing his emotional feelings, saying that Phillip serves with him as a son would serve with his own paternal physical father. Paul is not expressing that he is a Spiritual Father, Only three times in the entire N.T. does Paul refer to anyone as his son- and he makes it clear under special circumstances that he feels as they are his paternal sons.

He feels as though three of these believers are literally his own sons and feels as they are his real children - paternally., commanding that never are we to call instructors and teachers as - FATHERS - a spiritual father simply does not exist in Paul's relationship with anyone.

 

[BreadOfLife]

yes,

that is truly amazing and i am in gratitude for my Catholic friends, Roman Catholics have done many, many years of study and dedicated so much to their faith, however I believe that they are in error concerning the Bible and the Lord.

I have learned many things from communicating with Catholics -

but I believe that these comparisons are repeated because of the Spirit or presence of the Lord is working just as it had worked among his people in the past, it is repeating its manner in which it places events and circumstances, why should we specifically believe that this is because of Mary happening to be standing there that is causing this repeating of similar circumstances to repeat themselves in a spiritual effect.

the spiritual realm is very consistent and often the spiritual events follows a pattern, -

even evil spirits are consistent in following specific patterns, the way they operate and function, - Satan was very persistent and focused upon repeating pattern like repetitions of previous scriptures and past events when approaching Jesus. When Moses is performing miracles the evil magicians attempt to repeat exactly what he is doing by throwing down their rods. We see in the last days that the effect of Gods wrath is repeated in similar ways as it was done in ancient Egypt. The water turned into blood, diseases and plagues. This repeating similar circumstances is not repeating itself because of any particular individual specifically but because this is how the spiritual realm works .

also the hill country of Judea is simply a location with allot of hills, could it not be mere coincidence that everyone traveling would go through the hillside ?

Here, you have 2 different authors, centuries apart, writing almost the EXACT same thing about 2 different entities – type and fulfilment:

OT - The Ark carrying the Word of God is brought to the house of Obed-Edom in the hill country of Judea for 3 months, where it was a blessing. (2 Sam. 6:11)

NT - Mary (the new Ark) carrying the Word of God goes to Elizabeth's house in the hill country of Judea for 3 months, where she is a blessing (Luke 1:56)

The symbolism doesn’t end there . . .
OT - The When the Ark carrying the Word of God returned “David was leaping and dancing before the Lord” (2 Sam. 6:14)

NT - When Mary came into Elizabeth's presence carrying the Word of God, the baby “leaped for joy” in Elizabeth's womb (Luke 2:38).

God doesn’t make mistakes – NOR does He deal in coincidences.
EVERYTHING He does is planned.

furthermore... we see in Luk 2:48

:48 - Mary said to Jesus - Son, - behold, thy FATHER “ JOSEPH “ and I have sought thee sorrowing.

This is not Elizabeth saying this - THIS IS THE BLESSED VIRGIN MARY HERSELF DIRECTLY SAYING THAT “” JOSEPH “”” IS THE LITERAL FATHER OF JESUS, Son, - " YOUR FATHER “ ☞ JOSEPH “ HAS SOUGHT YOU SORROWING.

why is not then - Joseph also the father of God - and James the brother of God .

even in the last days the Antichrist will continue the same pattern as God did in the past and send fire down from heaven,

I do believe that this is not happening because Mary or any one single individual but because the spirit realm and powers of spirituality have ability to repeat themselves and even arrange repeating events to unfold in a similar pattern.

First of all – Mary never told Jesus that Joseph was His “literal” father.

Yes, she is pointing to the fact that Joseh is His father – but only in the sense that he is Jesus’s foster father. Mary is NOT an idiot – even if YOU think she is. She knows that she was impregnated by the Holy Spirit:

Luke 1:35
The angel answered, “The Holy Spirit will come on you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called the Son of God.

 

[chandlere880]

yes. I completely agree with you and understand

I apologize for not making that clear, however, Mary is saying to Jesus that ︸ " Joseph is the father of Jesus "

these words can easily be taken out of context and lead one to quickly lurch to a conclusion that Joseph is

〘 THE " foster father " Joseph the Father Of God 〙 ✦ but we know that Joseph is not the Foster Father of God any more than Mary is the birth mother whom bore God or whom conceived God.

is Joseph the supposed father of God or ✦ Joseph the " foster father " of God ? I don't believe that any rational or honest person would make this claim to say Joseph is the Foster Parent of God or Step Father of God. Its just not something that Catholics or anyone would go around saying because Jesus was both Human and God at the same time

" The Foster Father " or ... ✒ Step Son Relationship with Joseph has nothing to do with the God Nature Of Jesus anymore than the Motherhood Of Mary has anything to do with the God Nature Of Jesus.

Jesus received all of his fragility and humanity and sin nature existing in THE LIKENESS OF SINFUL FLESH
this sin nature came from Mary and Jesus existed as both the seed of David and as God from heaven who came out of God. God entered into the world in the form of sinful flesh and was perfect in his conduct and actions and obedience to the will of God . he did not yield to the sin nature that he was born in and created as to exist in the likeness of sinful flesh/

Mary did not come from Heaven but the Spirit of Jesus did come from heaven and humans do not provide seed of spirituality or have control of inhabiting or seeding or dividing and portioning their Spirit into other hosts.

giving Joseph, the title " STEP FATHER OF GOD " this would have no application to anything other than the humanity and nature of Joseph, the same is with Mary, we can call it what we wish but the scriptures clarify in detail that Mary had nothing to do with the God that manifested in flesh other than providing the flesh of her own humanity.

on the day of Pentecost Mary was not there to divide and portion out her spirit to the people in the upper room, that came down from heaven