Rejecting Christ, or rejecting "Christianity"? (the church) ???

[St. SteVen]

The parody below illustrates how the church
and Christians can stand in the way of someone
having a relationship with Jesus.

What is the solution?

--- PARODY --- (the parenthetical statements represent what they are thinking) - LOL

Christian: Do you know Jesus? (a very good question)
Prospect: I've heard of him. (I need to get away fast)
Christian: But do you know him personally? (another good question)
Prospect: I've heard of that too. (I don't like where this is going)
Christian: You need to invite him into your life. (smooth)
Prospect: Why would I want to do that? (shields up, battle mode)
Christian: Because of your sin. (Careful. get ready to sink the hook)
Prospect: My sin? (run feet, run)
Christian: Yes. We are all born sinners in need of forgiveness. (steady...)
Prospect: I've heard of that too. (feet, why aren't you running?)
Christian: Jesus died to pay for our sin. (keep going)
Prospect: Okay, hang on... do you want me to join a church? (regaining control)
Christian: Well, that's part of it. But let's not jump ahead... (careful...)
Prospect: If it involves joining a church, I am not interested. (there, I said it)
Christian: Why would that be a problem? (this is going down hill fast)
Prospect: I don't want to join a church, or be a "Christian".
Christian: So, you are rejecting Christ? (gotcha)
Prospect: No. I am rejecting Christianity. (Yes, I will escape this encounter)
Christian: But... rejecting Christianity is the same as rejecting Christ. (???)
Prospect: I think Gandhi got it right. (now you are toast)
Christian: Say what? (Houston, we have a problem)
Prospect: Gandhi said, "I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. ..." (gotcha)
Christian: Well, you should focus on Jesus, not on Christians. (Mayday, Mayday...)
Prospect: Christianity obviously doesn't work. (winning this argument)
Christian: Well, it can... (going down fast)
Prospect: Sorry, I'm not interested. (ha, made short work of this)
Christian: There are consequences for rejecting Christ. (last ditch effort)
Prospect: Like going to hell? (I'm so done with this)
Christian: Well, yes... (gulp)
Prospect: I'm so done with this. Goodbye. (and good riddance)
Christian: (sigh)

[

 

[St. SteVen]

This may prove to be difficult, but try to put yourself in the shoes of a person that is not a Christian.
If you were raised in the church and have been attending all your life, this might be VERY difficult.
Christianity and being a part of the church is normal for you. You probably have zero objectivity.

At some point the non-Christian feels the need to learn more about the God who has never been a part of their life.
They know someone at work who goes to church. Maybe they can explain God to them? Then it happens...

The Christian is a bit stunned that their workmate would approach them on this subject.
Unsure of what to say, they invite the non-Christian to church. Church name, location and Sunday service times are given.
The non-Christian makes note of the information, but is unsure about whether they will attend or not.

Is that what learning about God is about? Going to church services? (sigh)
The non-Christian had been to a few weddings and a funeral or two. Would a Sunday service be like that?

The non-Christian goes to Sunday service. A friendly man hands them an order of service bulletin.
They find a seat near the back so they can leave if this gets to be too much. Church people are staring at them.

The services starts and there is a lot of standing up and sitting down. Announcements are given and the Pastor
gives a way-too-long sermon on some strange text. Perhaps one of his personal favorites? Zzzz... (snooze fest)

At the end of the service the non-Christian leaves. A few well-meaning people offer a greeting.
The non-Christian is pretty sure that this is not what they are looking for.

Fortunately, God understands the desire of their heart and intervenes. (more to the story, obviously)

[

 

[Deborah_]

For some reason, we feel the need to invite people to "church" before they become Christians. That's not generally how it happened in New Testament times. I became a Christian first - it was only after that, that a church service made any sense.

Then of course there are people who have had bad experiences with churches in the past. They definitely need to meet Jesus first, before being introduced to other Christians!

Perhaps the main problem is that most of us don't know how to explain the Gospel in simple terms that the average non-believer can understand. (As you put it - "unsure of what to say") Most people outside the church have no idea what "sin" is, for example, and it's no good just telling people that they're sinners because they won't believe you.

 

[St. SteVen]

For some reason, we feel the need to invite people to "church" before they become Christians. That's not generally how it happened in New Testament times. I became a Christian first - it was only after that, that a church service made any sense.

I like what you are saying here.
No need to get an inquirer to church right away.
Better to wait until they are hungry for it.

Then of course there are people who have had bad experiences with churches in the past. They definitely need to meet Jesus first, before being introduced to other Christians!

Right. Like the Roman coliseum. Meet Jesus before you are thrown to the lions. - LOL
I suppose a good approach would be to visit a few different kinds of churches to see where they might be most comfortable.

Perhaps the main problem is that most of us don't know how to explain the Gospel in simple terms that the average non-believer can understand. (As you put it - "unsure of what to say") Most people outside the church have no idea what "sin" is, for example, and it's no good just telling people that they're sinners because they won't believe you.

Yes.
And more importantly to treat them like a person, not like a project.
Don't discard them if they "don't take the bait."
People know if they are being hustled.

[

 

[Carl Emerson]

Years back as I woke, I had a deep urgency to read 2 Chronicles 18.

As I read I had the deep impression that in many cases the Church is fighting a battle God has not ordained.

In the hight of the battle God's Word went forth that each should return home in peace. The Prophetic Word had been muted in Churches and a better locus of our faith is our natural families.

I still believe this, but also have a call to attend a particular congregation for a season.

So the truth that God works out His perfect plan through imperfect people also applies to churches.

When working among street folk it was always hard to find churches that would nurture new converts.

Better to embrace them in functional Christian homes as this is the mode that the early church used.

This leads to a big topic on how our faith is lived - the church was born on an existing Jewish community that had existing manates from Scripture but this foundation for our faith is very rare and seldom taken seriously.

 

[Behold]

Well, not every white building with a Steeple on it, with colored glass windows... is really a "Church".

Not every forum, with the word "christian" in the title, is really a "Christian" forum.

Not every book that has the title "BIBLE" on the cover, is a Bible.

Not everyone who posts on a Forum, as a Christian.... is actually a Christian.

Not everyone who stands in a Pulpit with a bible in their hand, is born again.

Christianity is a hand it to the next one, situation.
We receive Christ, and we are to learn some Knowledge of God... to then deliver Christ to the next one.. and then disciple them.

If you are a deceived CULT member then your obsession is to SELL Calvinsim, and TULIP and Mary, and Water Baptism, and confessing sin, and repentance, and Law and Commandments,, and the Book of Mormon.... etc, etc.

The way you disciple a new convert, is to ground them in Grace, Hebrews 13:9.... and have them so lovingly and deeply obsessed with The Gift of Salvation, that from that point, God can use them, and no Cult can ruin their faith.

Theology, is often the enemy of the Cross that uses Christineze, in the Theology.
You have to learn how to hear, deception, and you cant hear it, unless your ears are fine tuned to the The CROSS of Christ.

This is why Paul told you.......'WE, preach, CHRIST CRUCIFIED".. and not Calvinism, or Catholicism, or Mormonism, or JW, or any other Denomination's point of view.

Reader/..

Christians are GOD made.

Denominations are Man Made, all 45,000 of them..

CULT "isms" like Calvinsim, Catholicism, Mormonism........these are all Man Made Cult Traps.

Now, dont misread me.. Reader... As you should find a bible believing Church, that is CROSS CENTERED, Theologically, and not Calvin centered or Mary Centered... ect .

And get in that Church, and grow, and learn, and be a part of it... put your family in there.
Join the Choir.
Teach SS.
Be a part of the work.

 

[Windmill Charge]

you should find a bible believing Church, that is CROSS CENTERED

So how would you advise a Christian to do this?

Should they physically visit each church Sunday by sunday to find out what they practise, teach and believe.

Could they use sites like Alpha or christianityexplored to find out what there local churches believe.


Your problem I'd that there are a great many churches that don't teach what you believe.

 

[Behold]

So how would you advise a Christian to do this?

Should they physically visit each church Sunday by sunday to find out what they practise, teach and believe.

There is a lot of fake christianity found in pulpits and on forums, and in life.

So, we dont want any of that....we want what is real.

The NT tells us how to find out...

Now, what is the CORE issue, = core theology, that has to be understood and taught correctly, or this is the proof that you are dealing with a confused Christian (Minister or Believer)...., or a deceived one who is now become a heretic.?

Its very simple...
You find out what the person understands regarding Salvation, as if they dont understand The Cross correctly, that is the Blood Atonement........ = that is the only reason that God will accept you "by faith",..give you the new birth .... and keep you, forever.....then if they are speaking in tongues, and can quote 3477 bible verses, and adore John Calvin... and have written 34 "christian books" and have "66 youtube videos up and running".. then they are not of real faith......even tho they might be a Christian.... but they are a Christian with broken faith....and are deceived.

And you dont want that one as your Minister or your Sunday School Teacher.
You have to find out....if they " have the CROSS right".. .regarding how they believe it, and teach it..

Notice.. Paul said.....>>"""WE, preach Christ... Crucified"""..........and that means.. .our revelation of Salvation is.. = Its in Christ alone.

So, that eliminates everything else that a person tries to DO, or that they feel is an add on, to The Cross.
= Like Water Baptism., or Keeping Law and commandments, or any other situation that is what you do to try to keep your salvation, such as confess sin.

See Salvation is JESUS...
JESUS is Salvation.
Thats its. John 14:6
And the person who does not really and truly understand this......will be worrying about confessing sin to try to stay saved, or they will believe they can lose their salvation.

So, you have to find out what the Minister believes... = What they believe SAVED THEM, and KEEPS THEM SAVED..

Now, see the = "KEEPS them SAVED"......?
See that?
That is the dividing line that designates real faith.......and exposes heresy.

Listen..... all heresy, will teach that Its not Jesus who KEEPS you saved.........its YOU doing that by some self effort., including confessing sin, or being water baptized.

So, REAL FAITH in Christ.......is. = JESUS who SAVED me.... = KEEPS me saved.

JESUS who SAVED me.... = KEEPS me saved.
JESUS who SAVED me.... = KEEPS me saved.

See that? That is REAL Faith in Christ.

Now..... just find that out, find out if they believe that Jesus is their SAVIOR, as if they believe it correctly then they will believe that Jesus = KEEPS them saved.
If instead they have broken faith, or no faith or fake faith, then they will not agree that Jesus Keeps them saved.

They will deny it or.. they will try to dodge it, like this..>"Yes, Jesus keeps me saved....>>If i do this"....or "as long as i dont do that'...

= Broken Faith, or no faith.

So, start there......find out what the Church believes regarding that.....and when you find one that is strong in Faith, = Jesus KEEPS ME SAVED,..... that that one is always going to be a = Bible Believing, New Testament centered... Church.
Put your car in front of that one on Sunday and Put your family in the Pew.

 

[Carl Emerson]

find out if they believe that Jesus is their SAVIOR, as if they believe it correctly then they will believe that Jesus = KEEPS them saved.

Amen to that....

 

[St. SteVen]

New topic:

Should a Christian have non-Christian friends? - In the world, but not of the world?

[

 

[Behold]

New topic:

Should a Christian have non-Christian friends? - In the world, but not of the world?

[

Its possible to have friends who are unbelievers, as we are "salt and light" that can help them find Jesus as their Salvation.

But, we can't condone any behavior, that is Christ offending.....so, it can be that BECAUSE they know this, then they wont have us as their Friend....so, that solves that.
And if they keep us, then that is good form them..

Here also is a fact...
Once you get saved, and are really saved, then Jesus becomes the focal point of your life, and you will want to talk about Him, and share Him.
And that will get rid of your old friends, and it wont take long...

 

[St. SteVen]

Here also is a fact...
Once you get saved, and are really saved, then Jesus becomes the focal point of your life, and you will want to talk about Him, and share Him.
And that will get rid of your old friends, and it wont take long...

Translation: Christians are repulsive. - LOL

[

 

[Behold]

Translation: Christians are repulsive. - LOL

[

Sinners love their sin...and they want to do more of it.

"CHRISTians" represent "salt and light"......so that means that God through us, causes the sinner to feel "convicted" (Judged).

That is the effect of TRUTH when they rub against it......they feel "wrong".

And that often causes them to behave badly.

 

[Carl Emerson]

The modern church is teaching folks to go out and preach of a kingdom that they haven't established.

That is the disconnect that the unsaved find unattractive.

The Love of Jesus being manifest will result in a loving community of believers -family - sadly this evidence of the kingdom is rare.

The good news is preached but the bad news is lived.

Many 'churches' are locked up during the week.

The Truth needs to be lived as a life rather than being sold as an event.

 

[St. SteVen]

New topic.

Little know fact about Apollos.

Some quick Wiki research indicates that he knew only of the Baptism of John. (initially) Acts 18:24-26 NIV Meanwhile a Jew named Apollos, a native of Alexandria, came to Ephesus. He was a learned man, with a thorough knowledge of the Scriptures. 25 He had been instructed in the way of the Lord...

www.christianityboard.com

[

 

[St. SteVen]

From post #2.

This may prove to be difficult, but try to put yourself in the shoes of a person that is not a Christian.
If you were raised in the church and have been attending all your life, this might be VERY difficult.
Christianity and being a part of the church is normal for you. You probably have zero objectivity.

At some point the non-Christian feels the need to learn more about the God who has never been a part of their life.
They know someone at work who goes to church. Maybe they can explain God to them? Then it happens...

The Christian is a bit stunned that their workmate would approach them on this subject.
Unsure of what to say, they invite the non-Christian to church. Church name, location and Sunday service times are given.
The non-Christian makes note of the information, but is unsure about whether they will attend or not.

Is that what learning about God is about? Going to church services? (sigh)
The non-Christian had been to a few weddings and a funeral or two. Would a Sunday service be like that?

The non-Christian goes to Sunday service. A friendly man hands them an order of service bulletin.
They find a seat near the back so they can leave if this gets to be too much. Church people are staring at them.

The services starts and there is a lot of standing up and sitting down. Announcements are given and the Pastor
gives a way-too-long sermon on some strange text. Perhaps one of his personal favorites? Zzzz... (snooze fest)

At the end of the service the non-Christian leaves. A few well-meaning people offer a greeting.
The non-Christian is pretty sure that this is not what they are looking for.

Fortunately, God understands the desire of their heart and intervenes. (more to the story, obviously)

[

 

[Carl Emerson]

Denominations are Man Made, all 45,000 of them..

Do you fellowship outside of the 45,000 ?

 

[Behold]

Do you fellowship outside of the 45,000 ?

'Mainline Denomination", tho Messianic.

 

[Skovand]

As a Christian myself who believes that the great commission is very important to share the message of Jesus with the world I believe bringing a nonbeliever to services are part of it.

Few months ago I was hiking and ran into two girls. One was 27 and the other was 24 and they were both in a relationship with one another. Though they both look very feminine in the typical sense it was obvious they were gay as I was walking up because of how they were side hugging one another while walking. I knew they could not hear me so I said hello, and startled them a bit but they smiled and waved back. I mentioned it’s a great day to go hiking and they asked why I had a garbage bag and I told them that one thing the church I go to does is called stewardship theology. That I believe the planet earth is our responsibility to help preserve since we have the greatest power. The raccoons, spiders, snakes and even the butterflies depend on us to not destroy it all.

I could tell from their face that they were instantly put off by the mentioning of God and church. Since I could read it I went into talking about native plants and evolutionary ecology and leaf defense mechanisms. The talk lasted about 5 minutes and one of them asked me was I Christian or what did I mean by God and so on? I told them I am a Christian and that. Christianity is much like the pride rainbow, it’s made up of all kinds of people and beliefs. Not just one. The other one laughed and said she’s sure they would hate to be associated with the pride flag. So I told her that many Christians are actually gay or trans and many Christians who are heterosexual and cis, like myself, still accept and affirm our gay brothers and sisters in Christ. That I disagree with the conservative approach to theology you find in westernized communities.

I asked them do they believe in God and both of them were raised Christian but left the faith because of the abuse and hatred they dealt with as teens and young adults. That they now believe in a god but not so much an organized religion. That they don’t think Christianity makes sense. A loving God that sends people to burn forever and ever just because of who they love. I told them I agree. That I believe everyone from everywhere for all time will be saved. I talked a bit about universalism.

We ended up hiking 2 hours together. We went hiking again today. They are coming to church this evening and I let them know that essentially everyone at the congregation is quite liberal. They will be welcomed.

The discussion today at church is on the “binding of Isaac” and how while Abraham had faith, he did not know God very well because the best answer would have been to tell God, I know you are not a god of human sacrifice. That would show even better faith in God than what Abraham had and then we will dive into a few stories of how Jesus and his father reached out to those hurting to show them love and justice.

This Wednesday we are all meeting up to watch “Beetlejuice 2” and eat dinner while fellowshipping together.

 

[Behold]

A loving God that sends people to burn forever and ever just because of who they love.

God does not send Lesbians to Hell for being Gay.

So, your theology, is actually worse than theirs because they are not pretending to know anything about Salvation.
You are pretending to know something about it, and in the end, all you'll do is lead these 2 farther from the Light, same as you.
They were not fortunate in meeting you, if the "church" you are taking them to, produced your rancid theology.

Now, Here is the thing about Hell.
Its the eternity that a Christ Rejector chooses.....for themselves, when they could have chosen Heaven, by simply giving their Faith in Christ To God, so that God could forgive their sin, and give them His "Gift of Salvation".