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op: re: Spirit baptisms?
No such [ Confusing ] thing, In Scripture, as baptism OF or IN the spirit!:
1) Baptism WITH The Holy Spirit, Administrator = Christ, Purpose = power, signs and wonders
Prophecy/covenants, for Israel, in the previous (and future) dispensations
Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That Differ” (online)
Mystery/Grace, For The ONE Body Of Christ, In The Current Dispensation
2) ONE Baptism BY The Holy Spirit, Administrator = The Holy Spirit, Purpose =
Identification / Immersion Into The ONE Body Of Christ
TWO of the 13 Bible baptisms! Amen.
No such [ Confusing ] thing, In Scripture, as baptism OF or IN the spirit!:
1) Baptism WITH The Holy Spirit, Administrator = Christ, Purpose = power, signs and wonders
Prophecy/covenants, for Israel, in the previous (and future) dispensations
Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That Differ” (online)
Mystery/Grace, For The ONE Body Of Christ, In The Current Dispensation
2) ONE Baptism BY The Holy Spirit, Administrator = The Holy Spirit, Purpose =
Identification / Immersion Into The ONE Body Of Christ
TWO of the 13 Bible baptisms! Amen.
Actually, the interlinear says "in one spirit" contrary to the kjv for instance that says "by one Spirit" in 1 Cor 12:13.
en
ἐν
in
The correct translation of 1 Cor 12:13 can be found by looking at the origional language in the interlinear which says "in one Spirit" not "by one Spirit" as is found in such as the kjv.
en
ἐν
in
Hillsage
Well-Known Member
I'm not sure what INTERLINEAR you're looking at, but I am looking at 3 from my library and neither the 'Westcott and Hort', or the 'Stephens' or the 'Nestles' Greek interlinear texts use the Greek word you posted;
They all 3 use the Greek word ek G1537 ek a primary preposition denoting the origin (the point whence action or motion proceeds)...
One commentary notes: "The AV 1611 had a small 's' (spirit) in both cases in this verse. All the critical texts omit 'eis' which is translated "into" because of it's difficulty. A better translation would say "all have been made to drink at one pneuma."
This infers that you are neither baptized "IN" or "WITH" the person of 'The Holy Spirit'. How can one drink a person or be baptized with a person?" But you can be baptized BY The Holy Spirit as He pours out of Himself 'holy spirit' power. The Holy Spirit is not POWER...He is the source of the 'holy spirit POWER' of the Godhead. Scripture is plain that we are to receive holy spirit 'POWER" which proceeds from within the person of 'The Holy Spirit'. And it's His power which is poured out UPON us.
LUK 24:49 And behold, I send the promise [of] (tou /from the) [my] Father UPON you; but stay in the city, until you are clothed with power from on high."
What in this verse indicates that you are receiving a 'Person within' you? Nothing! You are to be 'CLOTHED' outside with "POWER" upon you coming "from on high".....eg. heaven above. And this 'POWER" is not coming from the "Father upon you". The Father is the one 'on high' promising holy spirit "POWER" from God's source. That being supernatural POWER (gift) from the source of the person of The Holy Spirit of God (giver).
ACT 1:4* And while staying with them he charged them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the promise of the (tou/from the) Father, which, he said, "you heard from me, 5* for John baptized with water, but before many days you shall be baptized with [the] Holy Spirit."
You no more get the PERSON of the Holy Spirit with "the promise [tou/OF THE Holy Spirit", than you get the Father with "the promise [tou]/OF THE Father".
It's bible hub on line interlinear. And you are not understanding the Luke 24 passage you quoted. That promise was not one of a universal nature but wad made specifically to his apostles and them only which came to pass on the day of Pentecost in Acts2.
Hillsage
Well-Known Member
So much for your OPINION. How about backing it with BIBLE? What happened on the day of Pentecost was what everyone 'SAW AND HEARD'.
ACT 2:33 Being therefore exalted at the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise [tou FROM] of the Holy Spirit, he has poured out this which you see and hear.
Did 'a person' pour out? And what was "the promise"? It was "POWER". What kind of 'power'? Supernatural tongues which everyone did 'see and hear'. And then 'everyone' called the apostles/disciples 'drunks' . Kind of similar to those "ungifted" fundamental Christians of today.
Except they say prayer tongues is "gibberish" or "babble", which is not much different than the disciples being called "drunks" back then IMO.
And you say "That promise" is only for the "apostles and them only". Really? Well I'll still answer to God with BIBLE backing my OPINION.
ACT 2:39* For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
So anyone to day is "afar off" from back then. And if "the Lord our God (HAS) called." you to be a christian, then ALL CHRISTIANS today are just as qualified to receive that same 'PROMISE OF POWER'. IMO backed by BIBLE.
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Start with John the Baptist's comments in Luke 3:16 regarding baptism with the Holy Ghost and then the Luke 24:49 comment made by Jesus to his apostles telling them to tarry in Jerusalem until they received power from on high. As previously stated, this did occur as recorded in Acts 2 wherein the apostles were given that power and the Holy Spirit appeared in the form of cloven tongues of fire. They then spoke in earthly tongues as a sign to the unbelieving Jews who were afterwards converted. The apostles only had the power from on high with which they performed miracles etc., those miraculous gifts of the Spirit that they only could pass on by the laying on of their hands as stated in Acts 5:12, Acts 6:6, Acts 6:8 with Stephen doing miraculous things after the laying on of the apostle's hands ad noted in Acts 6:6, Acts 8:17-18, Acts 19:6. Plenty of examples of the power given to the apostles and evidence that they only had the power by which they were able to manifest through the laying on of their hands. They are dead as well as all that they laid their hands on. The miraculous manifestation of those gifts of the Spirit, those listed in 1 Cor 12:8-10 have ceased as noted they would in 1 Cor 13:8. Goodbye
Hillsage
Well-Known Member
How about YOU start with; LUK 3:16 John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:
FIRST; why does KJV say "Holy Ghost" and not "Holy Spirit"?
Also, why does KJV not capitalize holy in the following verses?
EPH 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
EPH 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of [tov FROM] God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption. (NOTE; not Holy Spirit OF God tou is
1TH 4:8 He therefore that despiseth, despiseth not man, but God, who hath also given unto us his holy Spirit.
KJV spelling reveals, that even they realized, they did not even understand fully what [spirit Spirit] was being talked about. But in 'honesty' they pointed that 'lack of understanding' out with the above spellings. That was something none of our modern translators even address. If you think the KJV just had publishing errors above, then maybe you too are simply in waters over your understanding.
So, telling me to look at scripture which you don't even unpack, nor do you ask me to deal with from my understanding, just leads me to believe your "GOODBYE" is really just the camouflage for a white flag. You should have just started with Goodbye if it means you have no intention of reading anything I'm posting.
What is the point of your rambling which has nothing to do with the discussion? The use of a capital H and lower case h does make sense. When you refer to the Holy Ghost or Spirit (one in the same) it's making reference to that being as an individual, hence the capital H. When speaking of holy as not part of the individual's formal name or title, the use if lower case h is correct. Simple English. Goodbye.How about YOU start with; LUK 3:16 John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:
FIRST; why does KJV say "Holy Ghost" and not "Holy Spirit"?
Also, why does KJV not capitalize holy in the following verses?
EPH 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
EPH 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of [tov FROM] God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption. (NOTE; not Holy Spirit OF God tou is
1TH 4:8 He therefore that despiseth, despiseth not man, but God, who hath also given unto us his holy Spirit.
KJV spelling reveals, that even they realized, they did not even understand fully what [spirit Spirit] was being talked about. But in 'honesty' they pointed that 'lack of understanding' out with the above spellings. That was something none of our modern translators even address. If you think the KJV just had publishing errors above, then maybe you too are simply in waters over your understanding.
So, telling me to look at scripture which you don't even unpack, nor do you ask me to deal with from my understanding, just leads me to believe your "GOODBYE" is really just the camouflage for a white flag. You should have just started with Goodbye if it means you have no intention of reading anything I'm posting.
Hillsage
Well-Known Member
"Simple English" sounds a bit simple minded to me. Explain why your 'simple English answer' is it not found in any other bible translation? Answer that instead of some off the top of YOUR head diatribe. And if I'm wrong about that, then quote a source higher than yourself.
FYI Father, Son and Holy Spirit AREN'T names. They are TITLES representing 'character and authority' of someone. Each of the Trinity represent those individual differences making up the one whole Godhead. And 'that' is simple English.
So, maybe 'your' dad's name really is Father and your boy's name really is Son, but no one I've ever asked, did so with Father or Son when I asked their father and son's names.
Do your homework in Strong's. Look up the definition of "name" in both the Hebrew and the Greek. You'll see their is a LITERAL and a FIGURATIVE definition.
And the next time someone knocks on your door and demands you "Open up in the NAME of the law!!!! Please don't be so dumb as to look through your door's peephole for a name-tag that says OFFICER LAW on it. Look for character and authority....the figurative definition of name. IOW look for a badge and a gun.
Then you might JUST MIGHT realize that a single baptism in the NAME (singular) of Three entities (plural) doesn't even make grammatical sense....except to a nominal church, that is.
"Goodbye" sounds best to me too.
A single baptism in the name of 3 entities makes perfect sense. You aren't understanding the fact that it's their names which can't all be named, but rather it means the authority of just like you would say in the name of the king or queen you're doing this or that: it's by the authority of the king or queen, likewise, it's by the authority of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. Same applies when you're baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. It means by the authority of Jesus Christ; in his name it is being done.
And you are correct which I also stated regarding title and not name. The Holy Ghost and the use if a capital H would be correct when referring to the specific entity or person of the Holy Ghost, but when using the word holy as a description and not part of the official title, then the lower case is correct. It is simple English. And once again, you've deviated ftom the original discussion.
There are many "Christians" that don't know The Lord, Jesus, The Word of God, His Spirit.
After Jesus died and resurrected, only by receiving the Holy Spirit will we be saved. Only those God called and has given them the understanding of His mystery by His mercy and grace will be saved.
After Jesus died and resurrected, only by receiving the Holy Spirit will we be saved. Only those God called and has given them the understanding of His mystery by His mercy and grace will be saved.
St. SteVen
Well-Known Member
No. The baptism with the Holy Spirit is a subsequent experience to a renewed relationship with God.
Question: How did the Apostles know that the Believers in Samaria had not received the Holy Spirit?
Acts 8:14-17 NIV
When the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had accepted the word of God, they sent Peter and John to Samaria. 15 When they arrived, they prayed for the new believers there that they might receive the Holy Spirit, 16 because the Holy Spirit had not yet come on any of them; they had simply been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 17 Then Peter and John placed their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.
I'm not really going to be able to watch this, is it possible for you to summarize?
Much love!
marksman
My eldest granddaughter showing the result of her
I think you will find that they did this because that is what the Spirit told them to do on the day of Pentecost as in Repent and be baptized for the remission of sins and you will receive the Holy Spirit.
St. SteVen
Well-Known Member
marks said:
Water baptism was something the gentile did to become a Jew.
Baptism was already a part of Judaism before John the Baptist began baptizing in the wilderness.
They had an indoor baptistry pool. Article link below.
www.jewishencyclopedia.com
Water baptism was something the gentile did to become a Jew.
@marks is correct, as I understand it.
Baptism was already a part of Judaism before John the Baptist began baptizing in the wilderness.
They had an indoor baptistry pool. Article link below.
BAPTISM - JewishEncyclopedia.com
Complete contents the 1906 Jewish Encyclopedia.