Question for Amill's only

[Randy Kluth]

Actually I’m an amill and what I believe is that satans little season is at the end part of the millennial age not after it. It’s after the binding ends not the reigning

Thanks Marty. Some people involved in this discussion need to hear that. I'm aware that your version of Amill is Partial Preterist. It's comforting to know that with all of these diverse Christian positions, I have at least one element in common with all of them! :)

 

[ewq1938]

Actually I’m an amill and what I believe is that satans little season is at the end part of the millennial age not after it. It’s after the binding ends not the reigning

Except it literally says the Millennium ends before satan's little season begins.

Rev 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

 

[Marty fox]

Except it literally says the Millennium ends before satan's little season begins.

Rev 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

Actually it doesn’t literally say the millennium ends it says the thousand years and the text in both parts that you highlighted is satans binding not the reigning

 

[ewq1938]

Actually it doesn’t literally say the millennium ends

It does and the text posted shows it. Two times the text shows the Millennium/thousand years ends before the little season starts.

 

[Marty fox]

It does and the text posted shows it. Two times the text shows the Millennium/thousand years ends before the little season starts.

No it doesn’t the actual text you posted yourself says thousands years not millennium

 

[ewq1938]

No it doesn’t the actual text you posted yourself says thousands years not millennium

That is not a valid argument.

 

[Marty fox]

That is not a valid argument.

What do you mean you said that it said millennium and the words you posted said thousand years? It can’t get more valid than that

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I only believe what God's Word says, so I don't care if others want to believe doctrines of men instead, but I will... point out that difference as necessary, just as all... those who actually 'keep' God's Word as written have the authority to do so.

I believe what God's Word says as well, so don't act like you believe it and everyone who disagrees with you doesn't. Will you please just grow up already? Why do you act like a little immature child? You have no interest in adult discussions? You can't expect people to agree with everything you believe. You need to learn how to handle disagreement. I've never seen a more immature person than you on any of these forums. I think you act like a 6 year old on here. Just a little brat who whines every time you don't get your way. It's ridiculous. You should be embarrassed.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

You're making me LAUGH!!

You make me cry because you're so closed minded and extremely immature and just an absolutely ridiculous person. You have these ludicrous beliefs like thinking that dead people still get a chance to be saved and your utterly ridiculous belief that some people will be resurrected one day with mortal bodies and get a second chance at salvation. You believe doctrines of devils like that and you're laughing at me? No, I'm laughing at you.

1 Peter 4:5-6
5 Who shall give account to Him That is ready to judge the quick and the dead.

6 For, for this cause was the gospel preached also...
... to them that are dead, ...
... that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.
KJV

Even in that last phrase, "that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit", is a DIRECT COMPARISON to their being in the 'spirit" when The Gospel was preached to them!

So why... would you go DIRECTLY AGAINST God's written Word there???

You're not even thinking here. That is saying the gospel had previously been preached to them that are now dead, not preached to them while they were dead. Nowhere does scripture teach that people get a second chance at salvation after they die. That is a lie straight from the pit of hell. It was preached to them when they were still alive. Do you think the Holy Spirit never spoke to people's hearts until Christ game?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Actually I’m an amill and what I believe is that satans little season is at the end part of the millennial age not after it. It’s after the binding ends not the reigning

What do you make of these verses then:

Revelation 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

Revelation 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

These verses make it very clear that Satan's little season occurs AFTER the thousand years end, so can you explain how you conclude that Satan's little season occurs at the end of the thousand years rather than after the thousand years end?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Actually it doesn’t literally say the millennium ends it says the thousand years and the text in both parts that you highlighted is satans binding not the reigning

Isn't "the millennium" a reference to the thousand years?

 

[ewq1938]

What do you mean you said that it said millennium and the words you posted said thousand years? It can’t get more valid than that

It's not valid at all. "millennium" and "thousand years" are the same concept. Either term can be used regarding the language of Rev 20.

 

[Marty fox]

It's not valid at all. "millennium" and "thousand years" are the same concept. Either term can be used regarding the language of Rev 20.

But Revelation 20 separates them it describes the binding and the reigning and your two text's were the binding

 

[Davy]

I believe what God's Word says as well, so don't act like you believe it and everyone who disagrees with you doesn't.

Your 'fruit' has already shown you DO NOT keep God's Word, but work against it. Will you LIE again and say the 1 Peter 3:18-20 and 1 Peter 4:6 is NOT about Jesus preaching The Gospel to the 'dead'?

And I can save time by debunking your post #129 also, because nowhere does that Scripture even hint... at The Gospel being preached them while alive!

You really must not be too bright, because those of 1 Peter 3 that Jesus preached to were those who died BACK TO THE FLOOD OF NOAH'S DAY. So HOW is The Gospel going to be preached to them BY JESUS back then in Noah's times??? And those of 1 Peter 4:6 is simply a continuation of the subject of Jesus preaching to those "spirits in prison". Hey, and there's even yet another clue they were dead when Jesus preached to them, because that idea "spirits in prison" isn't about flesh men locked in earthly prisons, it's about the 'spirits' of the dead locked in Satan's prison in the heavenly dimension! And the Isaiah 42:7 Scripture was that very event prophesied that Jesus would preach to the dead, and lead those who believed out of that prison house! So you are completely Biblically illiterate about that too!

With your mind like a 'tare', you're not worth the time. Welcome to my IGNORE LIST.

 

[Marty fox]

What do you make of these verses then:

Revelation 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

Revelation 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

These verses make it very clear that Satan's little season occurs AFTER the thousand years end, so can you explain how you conclude that Satan's little season occurs at the end of the thousand years rather than after the thousand years end?

Because there are two separate thousand years one the binding and one the reigning.

Satan’s binding for 1000 years starts in Revelation chapter 20:2
2 He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years.

Satan’s 1000 year binding ends in verse 7.
7 When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison

The 1000 year reign starts in verse 4
4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years

The 1000 year reign ends in verse 12 at the end of our world
. 12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books.

We know that the reign ends here in verse 12 because verse 5 tells us
5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection

Jesus doesn't reign because satan is bound Jesus reigns because He is God.

Jesus will never stop reigning until the end of our world as the bible tells us

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Your 'fruit' has already shown you DO NOT keep God's Word, but work against it. Will you LIE again and say the 1 Peter 3:18-20 and 1 Peter 4:6 is NOT about Jesus preaching The Gospel to the 'dead'?

It's ironic that you are accusing me of lying when you are lying repeatedly about me. To give an interpretation of a passage is not lying, it's just giving an opinion on what a scripture means. To lie means you are PURPOSELY misinterpreting scripture, which I am not doing. Jesus said we will be judged with the same measure that we judge others and you are judging me for no reason. You need to repent of that or you will face the consequences on judgment day.

And I can save time by debunking your post #129 also, because nowhere does that Scripture even hint... at The Gospel being preached them while alive!

You really must not be too bright, because those of 1 Peter 3 that Jesus preached to were those who died BACK TO THE FLOOD OF NOAH'S DAY. So HOW is The Gospel going to be preached to them BY JESUS back then in Noah's times???

Are you incapable of having a discussion without insults? Why not give me a chance to explain before assuming I have no explanation? Look at this passage:

1 Corinthians 10:1 For I do not want you to be ignorant of the fact, brothers and sisters, that our ancestors were all under the cloud and that they all passed through the sea. 2 They were all baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea. 3 They all ate the same spiritual food 4 and drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was Christ.

Using your flawed logic, it wasn't possible for the Old Testament saints Paul referenced in this passage to drink "from the spiritual rock that accompanied them", which was Christ. But, they did. You understand that He is God and has always existed, don't you? It's not as if He was completely inactive until being born as a human on the earth. You understand that, don't you?

Do you understand that the gospel was even preached to Abraham?

Galatians 3:
6 So also Abraham “believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.” 7 Understand, then, that those who have faith are children of Abraham. 8 Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, and announced the gospel in advance to Abraham: “All nations will be blessed through you.” 9 So those who rely on faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.

So, tell me again how I'm not too bright for believing that the gospel was preached to people even before Jesus came to the earth as a human being?

And those of 1 Peter 4:6 is simply a continuation of the subject of Jesus preaching to those "spirits in prison". Hey, and there's even yet another clue they were dead when Jesus preached to them, because that idea "spirits in prison" isn't about flesh men locked in earthly prisons, it's about the 'spirits' of the dead locked in Satan's prison in the heavenly dimension! And the Isaiah 42:7 Scripture was that very event prophesied that Jesus would preach to the dead, and lead those who believed out of that prison house! So you are completely Biblically illiterate about that too!

You're not reading what I'm saying. Yes, it's talking about people who were dead at that time, but it's talking about how they PREVIOUSLY had been preached to when they were alive. I've already explained that. This idea that you are promoting of people getting second chances after they die is a doctrine of devils from the pit of hell. Scripture never teaches that! Instead, it teaches this:

Hebrews 9:27 Just as people are destined to die once, and after that to face judgment,

Your beliefs blatantly contradict the truth proclaimed in this verse.

With your mind like a 'tare', you're not worth the time. Welcome to my IGNORE LIST.

Go cry to your mommy instead of being an adult and taking on a challenge to your false doctrine then. That's your choice.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Because there are two separate thousand years one the binding and one the reigning.

Satan’s binding for 1000 years starts in Revelation chapter 20:2
2 He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years.

No, Marty, that is not the case. The thousand years is the thousand years. There is no basis whatsoever for claiming that it's referring to two different "thousand years" in Revelation 20.

Is it your concern that seeing only one "thousand years" in Revelation 20 could imply that Jesus's reign would end when the thousand years ends just as Satan's binding does? I can't think of any other reason why you would come up with this scenario of two different "thousand years".

It does not say He stops reigning after the thousand years ends, it only says Satan is loosed when the thousand years ends. Jesus, of course, will never stop reigning (Isaiah 9:6-7). But, you don't have to resort to claiming that it's talking about two separate "thousand years" time periods to support the fact that He won't stop reigning when the thousand years ends. Again, it never says that He only reigns for the thousand years and then stops reigning. He continues to reign afterwards, but the difference is that Satan is loosed at that point. So, while He does continue to reign at that point, He also takes the restraints off of Satan like Paul writes about in 2 Thess 2:3-12 as well.

Satan’s 1000 year binding ends in verse 7.
7 When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison

If John was referring to two different "thousand years" time periods, then why does he call it "the thousand years". That implies that there is just one "thousand years" time period that he referred to, not two.

The 1000 year reign starts in verse 4
4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years

The 1000 year reign ends in verse 12 at the end of our world
. 12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books.

We know that the reign ends here in verse 12 because verse 5 tells us
5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection

Jesus doesn't reign because satan is bound Jesus reigns because He is God.

Jesus will never stop reigning until the end of our world as the bible tells us

Of course, Marty. But, again, you don't have to resort to seeing two different "thousand years" time periods being referenced in order to come to those conclusions. Of course Jesus will never stop reigning. Everyone here knows that (or should, at least).

It only specifically says that Satan will no longer be bound when the one and only "thousand years" ends and never says that Christ will stop reigning just because the thousand years comes to an end. I appreciate your concern about that, but I just disagree with the idea that it has to be talking about two different "thousand years" in order for it to not imply that His reign will end when the thousand years ends.

 

[Marty fox]

No, Marty, that is not the case. The thousand years is the thousand years. There is no basis whatsoever for claiming that it's referring to two different "thousand years" in Revelation 20.

Is it your concern that seeing only one "thousand years" in Revelation 20 could imply that Jesus's reign would end when the thousand years ends just as Satan's binding does? I can't think of any other reason why you would come up with this scenario of two different "thousand years".

It does not say He stops reigning after the thousand years ends, it only says Satan is loosed when the thousand years ends. Jesus, of course, will never stop reigning (Isaiah 9:6-7). But, you don't have to resort to claiming that it's talking about two separate "thousand years" time periods to support the fact that He won't stop reigning when the thousand years ends. Again, it never says that He only reigns for the thousand years and then stops reigning. He continues to reign afterwards, but the difference is that Satan is loosed at that point. So, while He does continue to reign at that point, He also takes the restraints off of Satan like Paul writes about in 2 Thess 2:3-12 as well.


If John was referring to two different "thousand years" time periods, then why does he call it "the thousand years". That implies that there is just one "thousand years" time period that he referred to, not two.


Of course, Marty. But, again, you don't have to resort to seeing two different "thousand years" time periods being referenced in order to come to those conclusions. Of course Jesus will never stop reigning. Everyone here knows that (or should, at least).

It only specifically says that Satan will no longer be bound when the one and only "thousand years" ends and never says that Christ will stop reigning just because the thousand years comes to an end. I appreciate your concern about that, but I just disagree with the idea that it has to be talking about two different "thousand years" in order for it to not imply that His reign will end when the thousand years ends.

If there is only one thousand years then how come the scriptures shows two different endings?

7 When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison

Satan is released and does his final assault on the church before he is cast into hell.

5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection.

The rest of the dead come to life in verse 12

11 Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. The earth and the heavens fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books.

This is after satan is released defeated and cast into the lake of fire

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

If there is only one thousand years then how come the scriptures shows two different endings?

They don't.

7 When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison

Satan is released and does his final assault on the church before he is cast into hell.

5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection.

The rest of the dead come to life in verse 12

11 Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. The earth and the heavens fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books.

This is after satan is released defeated and cast into the lake of fire

I don't understand what you're saying here. Are you thinking that verse 5 is saying that the rest of the dead come to life immediately upon the end of the thousand years? If so, that is not what it means. Obviously, the rest of the dead are resurrected and judged not only after the thousand years end, but also after Satan's little season that follows the thousand years ends. It just doesn't specifically mention that they are resurrected after Satan's little season in verse 5, but that can be easily implied since they are obviously not judged until after Satan's little season is over.

 

[ewq1938]

But Revelation 20 separates them it describes the binding and the reigning and your two text's were the binding

You are wrong on all that but that doesn't matter. We are talking about when the little season starts. You said, "at the end part of the millennial age not after it." but that is wrong according to the text.