Psalm 122:6 Does NOT Refer to Jerusalem of the Zionist Israel of Today

[IndianaRob]

'''For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again.''' verse 21

Truly I tell you, this generation will not pass away until all these things have taken place. verse 34

In the segment it speak of the sun being darkened and the moon not giving its light. In Rev ch8, it states a third of the moon and sun will not shine, meaning one third of the earth will be covered in darkness. It also stataes one third of the earth and trees will be burned up.
When, by 70AD did the world see horrors unequalled since the creation and have not been seen since?
When by 70AD was a third of the earth covered in darkness?
When by 70AD was a third of the land and trees burned up?
These prophecies can NOW come to fruition, man is capable of bringing them all to pass, but not by 70AD. It will be caused by an abomination that causes desolation. That exists now.
What horror was seen by 70 AD than was worse than the second world war?
50 million dead, 6 million Jews gassed to death. Babies used as bayonet practice in russia, two atomic bombs detonated?
THIS GENERATION(the one that would be alive at the time of these events) will not pass away until all these things have happened.
The prophets spoke with one voice. At a time in the future, God would return the Israelites to their biblical homeland and bless them there. In 1948 this happened, they became a nation again in at least part of their biblical homeland. You may look at it from a human perspective, the UN was behind it. But God will use whoever he wants to use to fulfill his purposes. Cyrus, Pharoah, even the united nations, anyone he wants to use, for he is God Almighty

The world saw those horrors right here.

2Sa 22:5 When the waves of death compassed me, the floods of ungodly men made me afraid;


2Sa 22:6 The sorrows of hell compassed me about; the snares of death prevented me;


2Sa 22:7 In my distress I called upon the LORD, and cried to my God: and he did hear my voice out of his temple, and my cry did enter into his ears.


2Sa 22:8 Then the earth shook and trembled; the foundations of heaven moved and shook, because he was wroth.


2Sa 22:9 There went up a smoke out of his nostrils, and fire out of his mouth devoured: coals were kindled by it.


2Sa 22:10 He bowed the heavens also, and came down; and darkness was under his feet.


2Sa 22:11 And he rode upon a cherub, and did fly: and he was seen upon the wings of the wind.


2Sa 22:12 And he made darkness pavilions round about him, dark waters, and thick clouds of the skies.


2Sa 22:13 Through the brightness before him were coals of fire kindled.


2Sa 22:14 The LORD thundered from heaven, and the most High uttered his voice.


2Sa 22:15 And he sent out arrows, and scattered them; lightning, and discomfited them.


2Sa 22:16 And the channels of the sea appeared, the foundations of the world were discovered, at the rebuking of the LORD, at the blast of the breath of his nostrils.

 

[uncle silas]

The world saw those horrors right here.

2Sa 22:5 When the waves of death compassed me, the floods of ungodly men made me afraid;


2Sa 22:6 The sorrows of hell compassed me about; the snares of death prevented me;


2Sa 22:7 In my distress I called upon the LORD, and cried to my God: and he did hear my voice out of his temple, and my cry did enter into his ears.


2Sa 22:8 Then the earth shook and trembled; the foundations of heaven moved and shook, because he was wroth.


2Sa 22:9 There went up a smoke out of his nostrils, and fire out of his mouth devoured: coals were kindled by it.


2Sa 22:10 He bowed the heavens also, and came down; and darkness was under his feet.


2Sa 22:11 And he rode upon a cherub, and did fly: and he was seen upon the wings of the wind.


2Sa 22:12 And he made darkness pavilions round about him, dark waters, and thick clouds of the skies.


2Sa 22:13 Through the brightness before him were coals of fire kindled.


2Sa 22:14 The LORD thundered from heaven, and the most High uttered his voice.


2Sa 22:15 And he sent out arrows, and scattered them; lightning, and discomfited them.


2Sa 22:16 And the channels of the sea appeared, the foundations of the world were discovered, at the rebuking of the LORD, at the blast of the breath of his nostrils.

Really? A third of the earth was burnt up, a third of the trees were burned up? A third of the earth was covered in darkness?

 

[uncle silas]

The world saw those horrors right here.

2Sa 22:5 When the waves of death compassed me, the floods of ungodly men made me afraid;


2Sa 22:6 The sorrows of hell compassed me about; the snares of death prevented me;


2Sa 22:7 In my distress I called upon the LORD, and cried to my God: and he did hear my voice out of his temple, and my cry did enter into his ears.


2Sa 22:8 Then the earth shook and trembled; the foundations of heaven moved and shook, because he was wroth.


2Sa 22:9 There went up a smoke out of his nostrils, and fire out of his mouth devoured: coals were kindled by it.


2Sa 22:10 He bowed the heavens also, and came down; and darkness was under his feet.


2Sa 22:11 And he rode upon a cherub, and did fly: and he was seen upon the wings of the wind.


2Sa 22:12 And he made darkness pavilions round about him, dark waters, and thick clouds of the skies.


2Sa 22:13 Through the brightness before him were coals of fire kindled.


2Sa 22:14 The LORD thundered from heaven, and the most High uttered his voice.


2Sa 22:15 And he sent out arrows, and scattered them; lightning, and discomfited them.


2Sa 22:16 And the channels of the sea appeared, the foundations of the world were discovered, at the rebuking of the LORD, at the blast of the breath of his nostrils.

A nuclear war amongst the main countries that have nuclear weapons(main countries), would result in a cloud covering one third of the earth. The sun and moon would not shine upon one third of the earth. The land and trees over one third of the earth could be burned up. It would be caused by an abomination that causes desolation-nuclear weapons

 

[IndianaRob]

Really? A third of the earth was burnt up, a third of the trees were burned up? A third of the earth was covered in darkness?

Those details aren’t given in 2 Samuel they’re given in the book of Revelation.

 

[uncle silas]

Those details aren’t given in 2 Samuel they’re given in the book of Revelation.

Yep, and in Matt 21, the subject of discussion, Jesus said the sun and moon would not shine
There could be no greater horror ever seen on this earth than a nuclear war

 

[Arthur81]

'''For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again.''' verse 21

Truly I tell you, this generation will not pass away until all these things have taken place. verse 34

In the segment it speak of the sun being darkened and the moon not giving its light. In Rev ch8, it states a third of the moon and sun will not shine, meaning one third of the earth will be covered in darkness. It also stataes one third of the earth and trees will be burned up.
When, by 70AD did the world see horrors unequalled since the creation and have not been seen since?
When by 70AD was a third of the earth covered in darkness?
When by 70AD was a third of the land and trees burned up?
These prophecies can NOW come to fruition, man is capable of bringing them all to pass, but not by 70AD. It will be caused by an abomination that causes desolation. That exists now.
What horror was seen by 70 AD than was worse than the second world war?
50 million dead, 6 million Jews gassed to death. Babies used as bayonet practice in russia, two atomic bombs detonated?
THIS GENERATION(the one that would be alive at the time of these events) will not pass away until all these things have happened.
The prophets spoke with one voice. At a time in the future, God would return the Israelites to their biblical homeland and bless them there. In 1948 this happened, they became a nation again in at least part of their biblical homeland. You may look at it from a human perspective, the UN was behind it. But God will use whoever he wants to use to fulfill his purposes. Cyrus, Pharoah, even the united nations, anyone he wants to use, for he is God Almighty

You need to go back to school and brush up on your English grammar. There is a difference between the word "this" and the word "that".

At least 400 years after the 40 years in the wilderness, this is recorded in the Psalms:

"For forty years I loathed that generation and said, 'They are a people whose hearts go astray, and they do not regard my ways.'” (Ps 95:10 NRSV)
Paul quotes from this verse
"for forty years. Therefore I was angry with that generation, and I said, ‘They always go astray in their hearts, and they have not known my ways." (Heb 3:10 NRSV)

When a time is spoken of many centuries in the future, you use the word "that", and Jesus did not say "that generation", he said "this generation". This is a normal reading of Jesus' words unless a preconceived theology insists it must refer to a time 2000 years in the future!

Jesus said, "Truly I tell you, this generation will not pass away until all these things have taken place." (Matt 24:34 NRSV)

What is the difference between the words "this" and "that"? That is basic grammar -

This vs. That vs. These vs. Those: Basic Grammar Guide

In grammar, it's important to understand the difference between this vs. that vs. these vs. those, both in terms of demonstrative pronouns and demonstrative adjectives.

www.yourdictionary.com

Not only do we have the difference between "this" and "that", we have a key fulfillment in Paul's day -

Jesus said -
"And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come." (Matt 24:14 KJV)
that took place and was fulfilled in the first century
"First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world." (Rom 1:8 KJV)
and also
"If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister" (Col 1:23 KJV)

It is important to learn about apocalyptic language from the OT that is used in the NT to picture future events in prophecy:
Examples - Isa. 19:1; 13:1, 10, 19-20; 28:1-2; 34:4-5, 10; Eze 32:2, 7-8; Psa. 18:12-13; 104:3

If you had read Josephus' account of the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple, you'd not be contradicting God's word. Also, recently I watched a series by the BBC on the destruction in 66-70AD. You'd see the horrors vividly in that one episode!

It was about 50 years ago that I began to see how the footnotes in the Scofield and preached by those from Bob Jones, U. etc. would flat out contradict the very words of God in the scriptures themselves.

 

[Johann]

"for forty years. Therefore I was angry with that generation, and I said, ‘They always go astray in their hearts, and they have not known my ways." (Heb 3:10 NRSV)

grieved. Greek. prosochtizo. Only here and Heb_3:17. Many times in the Septuagint, including Psa_95:10, whence this is quoted.
that. The texts read "this".

2) 'With that generation, and said,"(te genea taute kai eipon) "With regards to this generation, and I said;" Isa_7:13; Isa_63:10-14.



Transliteration: tautē
Morphology: DPro-DFS
Demonstrative Pronoun - Dative Feminine Singular
Strong's no.: G3778 (οὗτος)
Meaning: This; he, she, it.

J.

 

[uncle silas]

You need to go back to school and brush up on your English grammar. There is a difference between the word "this" and the word "that".

At least 400 years after the 40 years in the wilderness, this is recorded in the Psalms:

"For forty years I loathed that generation and said, 'They are a people whose hearts go astray, and they do not regard my ways.'” (Ps 95:10 NRSV)
Paul quotes from this verse
"for forty years. Therefore I was angry with that generation, and I said, ‘They always go astray in their hearts, and they have not known my ways." (Heb 3:10 NRSV)

When a time is spoken of many centuries in the future, you use the word "that", and Jesus did not say "that generation", he said "this generation". This is a normal reading of Jesus' words unless a preconceived theology insists it must refer to a time 2000 years in the future!

Jesus said, "Truly I tell you, this generation will not pass away until all these things have taken place." (Matt 24:34 NRSV)

What is the difference between the words "this" and "that"? That is basic grammar -

This vs. That vs. These vs. Those: Basic Grammar Guide

In grammar, it's important to understand the difference between this vs. that vs. these vs. those, both in terms of demonstrative pronouns and demonstrative adjectives.

www.yourdictionary.com

Not only do we have the difference between "this" and "that", we have a key fulfillment in Paul's day -

Jesus said -
"And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come." (Matt 24:14 KJV)
that took place and was fulfilled in the first century
"First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world." (Rom 1:8 KJV)
and also
"If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister" (Col 1:23 KJV)

It is important to learn about apocalyptic language from the OT that is used in the NT to picture future events in prophecy:
Examples - Isa. 19:1; 13:1, 10, 19-20; 28:1-2; 34:4-5, 10; Eze 32:2, 7-8; Psa. 18:12-13; 104:3

If you had read Josephus' account of the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple, you'd not be contradicting God's word. Also, recently I watched a series by the BBC on the destruction in 66-70AD. You'd see the horrors vividly in that one episode!

It was about 50 years ago that I began to see how the footnotes in the Scofield and preached by those from Bob Jones, U. etc. would flat out contradict the very words of God in the scriptures themselves.

So, please address the questions
What horror was seen by 70 AD that was a worse horror than has ever been seen since?
When was a third of the land and grass burnt up?
When was a third of the earth covered in darkness?
Those prophecies can be accomplished by man now, but not in those days. So, your reasoning that it all took place in the generation of that era is false isn't it.
Your this and that is not definitive, you have to take everything into account. The world has seen worse horrors since 70AD than it saw by then!

 

[Arthur81]

grieved. Greek. prosochtizo. Only here and Heb_3:17. Many times in the Septuagint, including Psa_95:10, whence this is quoted.
that. The texts read "this".

2) 'With that generation, and said,"(te genea taute kai eipon) "With regards to this generation, and I said;" Isa_7:13; Isa_63:10-14.



Transliteration: tautē
Morphology: DPro-DFS
Demonstrative Pronoun - Dative Feminine Singular
Strong's no.: G3778 (οὗτος)
Meaning: This; he, she, it.

J.

The KJV puts added words in italics and the word "this" is that way, showing it was not in the Hebrew.

"Forty years long was I grieved with this generation, and said, It is a people that do err in their heart, and they have not known my ways:" (Ps 95:10 KJV)

For an up to date, correct English translation of the Septuagint, you can read it online:

https://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/nets/edition/24-ps-nets.pdf

"This electronic edition contains the masters of the second printing of A New English Translation of the Septuagint, as published by Oxford University Press in 2009, including corrections and emendations made in the second printing (2009) and corrections and emendations made in June 2014."

NETS: Electronic Edition

LXXE Psa. 94(95):10 - "For forty years I loathed that generation, and said, 'Always do they stray in heart, and they did not know my ways.'"

I will trust the scholarship of the Oxford Edition and put online by the University of Pennsylvania.

The Orthodox Church uses the Septuagint and in their 2008 Orthodox Study Bible they have the English translation from the Greek as:

"For forty years I was treated with contempt by that generation, And I said, 'They always go astray in their heart, And they do not know My ways.'"

The Orthodox Church has always used the Septuagint, so I would think they have good scholarship to translate as "that", instead of "this".

 

[Arthur81]

So, please address the questions
What horror was seen by 70 AD that was a worse horror than has ever been seen since?
When was a third of the land and grass burnt up?
When was a third of the earth covered in darkness?
Those prophecies can be accomplished by man now, but not in those days. So, your reasoning that it all took place in the generation of that era is false isn't it.
Your this and that is not definitive, you have to take everything into account. The world has seen worse horrors since 70AD than it saw by then!

I'm a born from above New Covenant believer, and I live by faith, not by what I can personally see or reason apart from His word. Again, one feature of apocalyptic language is hyperbole. By the way, were you in Jerusalem in 70 AD to witness this and give us an authoritative account? Again, I'll believe God's word as given.

 

[uncle silas]

I'm a born from above New Covenant believer, and I live by faith, not by what I can personally see or reason apart from His word. Again, one feature of apocalyptic language is hyperbole. By the way, were you in Jerusalem in 70 AD to witness this and give us an authoritative account? Again, I'll believe God's word as given.

You believe what happened in Jerusalem in 70 AD was a worse horror than the fifty million dead of the second world war? It was horrific yes, but not on the scale of the second world war for instance
Two Atomic bombs set off
6 million Jews gassed to death including the elderly, women and children?
Only today can Jesus words and Rev 8 come to pass, not then

 

[Johann]

The KJV puts added words in italics and the word "this" is that way, showing it was not in the Hebrew.

"Forty years long was I grieved with this generation, and said, It is a people that do err in their heart, and they have not known my ways:" (Ps 95:10 KJV)

For an up to date, correct English translation of the Septuagint, you can read it online:

https://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/nets/edition/24-ps-nets.pdf

"This electronic edition contains the masters of the second printing of A New English Translation of the Septuagint, as published by Oxford University Press in 2009, including corrections and emendations made in the second printing (2009) and corrections and emendations made in June 2014."

NETS: Electronic Edition

LXXE Psa. 94(95):10 - "For forty years I loathed that generation, and said, 'Always do they stray in heart, and they did not know my ways.'"

I will trust the scholarship of the Oxford Edition and put online by the University of Pennsylvania.

The Orthodox Church uses the Septuagint and in their 2008 Orthodox Study Bible they have the English translation from the Greek as:

"For forty years I was treated with contempt by that generation, And I said, 'They always go astray in their heart, And they do not know My ways.'"

The Orthodox Church has always used the Septuagint, so I would think they have good scholarship to translate as "that", instead of "this".

No problem-thanks for the links.
J.

 

[Biblepaige]

I may be in the wrong place. I wasn't aware there were anti-Jewish members here,till now .

Shame on you.

 

[uncle silas]

I may be in the wrong place. I wasn't aware there were anti-Jewish members here,till now .

Shame on you.

We are not all like that. Jesus is with Israel, though hardships lie ahead, future victory is assured

 

[Biblepaige]

We are not all like that. Jesus is with Israel, though hardships lie ahead, future victory is assured

I agree.
Meanwhile,their enemies are bold.

 

[uncle silas]

I agree.
Meanwhile,their enemies are bold.

I feel greatly for what Israel has still to go through, but I have no doubt of the end result. We cannot understand now, everything about God's plan for them, but, I hope you take this the right way, I do not believe anything that is now happening is outside of the plan God has for their future victory

 

[Biblepaige]

I feel greatly for what Israel has still to go through, but I have no doubt of the end result. We cannot understand now, everything about God's plan for them, but, I hope you take this the right way, I do not believe anything that is now happening is outside of the plan God has for their future victory

I understand and agree. Time will tell the whole story.

 

[Arthur81]

No problem-thanks for the links.
J.

There were several versions of the Septuagint made by Theodotion, Aquila, Symmachus, etc.

 

[Arthur81]

I may be in the wrong place. I wasn't aware there were anti-Jewish members here,till now .

Shame on you.

I've gone back and reread the articles in this thread, and I do not find anyone here that is "anti-Jewish". Where do you find any anti-Jewish statement that you are talking about?

 

[face2face]

A Christian who is excitedly focused on Jerusalem today appears to be a Zionist and Judaizer.

What a foolish comment! You should read Isaiah 62 and stare directly into the Face of him who is coming.

62:5 As a young man marries a young woman, so your sons will marry you. As a bridegroom rejoices over a bride, so your God will rejoice over you. 62:6 I post watchmen on your walls, O Jerusalem; they should keep praying all day and all night. You who pray to the Lord, don’t be silent! Is 62:5–6.

If you need help with the interpretation let me know!


F2F