Please explain this.

[stunnedbygrace]

sbg, "The best cure for Christianity is to read the Bible?" Yes, even a Two-Eyed, Literal Reading of the Scriptures--almost zero, iow, almost no info being imparted at all--that i would be offering for consideration will plainly guide anyone who Reads them, and riddles be damned imo, the riddles can be puzzled out like they are sposed to as you go. Now if you still "believe" that you might go up to heaven after you have literally died then bam right, the other bam, you have a prob or issue or really an opp right there. This is an opportunity for you, right there in the Book, see. Bc you already know the v about that one, surely. My opinion about the v really doesnt matter, your opinion is the only one that matters. No reason that you cannot inform and then continue to inform that opinion as you go, right, at least until you form a "belief" anyway and then youre screwed lol, sorry, there just is no better way to put someone who says that they know into a cat, than that. imo.
ah, sbg you got me answering now and i dont really like to answer, answers i'm just flopping around now too see, bc i dont know, so that said i at least do not assume that i have done much more than um touched the hem at this point, stopped the bleeding a little maybe. I yoyo between being completely at peace with nothing and even momentarily suicidal surrounded by everything one could possibly want, and i'm talking like up to pjs here lol. matter of fact getting on a jet makes me really depressed now, nevermind.

Anyway, i would look for the signs that will determine if and where (you) are on that path up there you describe, with the understanding that we look for the stuff we want to find, and ignore the other stuff or worse. Imo you should not think you have ever met God. Imo we each get a measure of the Spirit, and you might define "each" diff than me, or God. "We should assume we have only mistakenly thought that we were born from above?" You posit an instantaneous birth in your yesterday that i do recall, and yes you should only mistakenly assume that imo, mostly bc of the way you have chosen to define "born again" imo, as this instantaneous thing that happens just like we imagine as we are reading that passage, "do this and do that, and get baptized, and voila." see but i read of a...hmm, an impregnation and a carrying and a labor and then a birth. Do i also have rest right now? yes, i do, but suicide might also cross my mind later lol, which btw mostly makes me smile now, its more like a joke to me, Abba is asking me if my widdle feewings are hurt or what lol. Knowledge brings sorrow, suck it up buttercup, all that. yikes, a book.

"We should assume we have only been fooled that He knocked and we opened the door when really it was just our own emotions producing the experience?" at least until you have verified otherwise, of course! the heart is deceitful above all, and what is...quite carefully and artfully masked is, um, there are no male and female in the kingdom so we should not be reading that way, and female in the bible...will lead one to that, um lets see the progression is more or less her desire will be for her man which most any guy whos been married more than a month can verify lol, then two men in a field, in a bed, and...voila, lol, your chick is running your dude, youre old lady is blabbing in church, and you are singing WHEN WE ALL GET TO oops heaven.

your desire to know and be sure that you are "saved" is mooted by the possibility that "saved" has been misdefined, to suit your desire, the same desire incidentally that every one on the whole planet now or ever shares with you, we all have the residue of immortality and may put it back on...ha, pretty much any time we like, there is no secret or knowledge or thing to say correctly that will help i guess lol, just leave the world and dont come back until you dont really want to i guess. It has been said that toddlers experience irl the way we experience a dream, as adults. i expect lucid dreaming to come next, its so weird, it only seems to work when...i am not relying on it? ha
prolly gonna erase this post :)

How have I defined born again from above with the Spirit any differently than you when you say, each man receives a measure of the Spirit?

 

[stunnedbygrace]

i like how Sun Tzus are like more applicable to even that, whereas U's are pretty specific to literal battle

I agree that U was talking about literal battle. But everything we see shows Gods glory, so I saw even U's quote as applicable to the spiritual matter.

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

1. Yes. If you'e offended by ME...maybe you shouldn't be on ANY forum since I'm one of the least offensive person you'll meet on them.

But, if you recall, I told you that I wasn't insulted--that I'd have to care what you said about me to be insulted and I don't.

2. Calling someone ignorant is very isulting.

No, it was just true to the way I see you. Blunt perhaps, but it was meant kindly. I also said that we are ALL ignorant. Lauding one's "credentials" (as a "Bible teacher" and as one who "teaches new Christians") may impress the world, but do you really think God is impressed with your knowledge?

3. You say we don't know each other...great. So do YOU know ME?

I can only "know" you by what you say about yourself and what you say to others.

You told me several times to go study and other demeaning things.

Why is that "demeaning"? I tell myself to go and study the Bible every day of my life. Do you really think that anyone thinks that anyone here has "all knowledge"?

4. Yes, please don't say anything about hypocrisy since you are one of the most hypocritical persons I've ever met. Anywhere. Attributing to ME what YOU do.

LOLOLOL Sorry if my laughter offends you--but I am genuinely amused by that remark. I don't think you understand what a hypocrite is. (By the way, you haven't "met" me.)

5. Sorry, but I'm not here to learn. I'm so proudful..isn't it terrible...but I already know what I know and don't need to be taught it by anyone.
Awful, isn't it?

Sadly, that statement from you just confirms what I thought about you from the beginning of our "encounters". I am here to learn and you should be too. It's a pity, really--since you "teach Bible study" and all.

6. Perhaps YOU could learn that GOD MUST BE OBEYED.
yeah.

Have I given you any reason to assume that I do not obey Him? You really do sound like an angry parent or school teacher with your last remark--sorry to say. It sounds like the angry parent who takes a paddle to the backside of their five-year-old and yells, "I'll teach YOU that it is wrong to hit your brother!!"

 

[bbyrd009]

What does "believe into a cat" mean?

believe into a category, sorry

You are a tad bit nihilistic.

ya, i struggled with that for a while, know some great nihilists, but my arg there is i do not yet know what i will become, and recalling myself form an ego that day long time ago that i guess for whatever reason i was never that attached to anyway just...kinda makes that question moot to me, sbg. My personal take on that is that my ego is this imaginary thing that really doesnt exist anyway, see, so we could talk for days and agree or not agree but none of that will change what happens when we actually die, and no one knows where they go when they die to toss on the pile i guess. So yes i do share sort of certain beliefs with nihilists, from a certain pov. I really dont hold them as beliefs so much, but i find who disturbs my rest? compelling, yes.

Work while it is day imo, ok?

What makes you think Abba is saying anything to you?

bazinga. Now let me refer you to the beginning of our chat...lol

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Bazinga. That's what I was going for.

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

But you do think we should read the bible. We should just not think we have ever met God or received the Holy Spirit? We should assume we have only mistakenly thought that we were born from above? We should assume we have only been fooled that He knocked and we opened the door when really it was just our own emotions producing the experience?

1 John gives very definite criteria for judging whether one is "walking in the truth" and/or "walking in the light". This is not to deny experiences of one sort or another but they can be deceptive, as you know.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I can agree that no one yet knows where they will go when they die, because the race is not yet fully run but we are rather currently IN the race of trust.

So in that respect I can agree. But...if you currently are trusting outrageously, at least as far as He has given you to see, and you have dealt with the places He's shown you that you are not trusting, you are currently walking with Him and in agreement with Him. And you find that's all you really want anyway. Anything else He would care to give you is fine, but its the walking with Him that you really crave.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

believe into a category, sorry

ya, i struggled with that for a while, know some great nihilists, but my arg there is i do not yet know what i will become, and recalling myself form an ego that day long time ago that i guess for whatever reason i was never that attached to anyway just...kinda makes that question moot to me, sbg. My personal take on that is that my ego is this imaginary thing that really doesnt exist anyway, see, so we could talk for days and agree or not agree but none of that will change what happens when we actually die, and no one knows where they go when they die to toss on the pile i guess. So yes i do share sort of certain beliefs with nihilists, from a certain pov. I really dont hold them as beliefs so much, but i find who disturbs my rest? compelling, yes.

Work while it is day imo, ok?


bazinga. Now let me refer you to the beginning of our chat...lol

If egos were imaginary things that didn't really exist anyway...we would never see any man slap, murder, take prisoner or harm any other man...

I don't think self love is imaginary at all...

 

[bbyrd009]

How have I defined born again from above with the Spirit any differently than you when you say, each man receives a measure of the Spirit?

hmm. does your born-againness imply that you might go up to heaven after you have died?

 

[bbyrd009]

I agree that U was talking about literal battle. But everything we see shows Gods glory, so I saw even U's quote as applicable to the spiritual matter.

ah. well i guess that is intrinsic to our understanding of the battle is over, the fight is won, which i would say is pretty much disregarded in our quest to be tha winnas prolly

 

[bbyrd009]

If egos were imaginary things that didn't really exist anyway...we would never see any man slap, murder, take prisoner or harm any other man...

I don't think self love is imaginary at all...

so, bad choice of words, yeh. it is imaginary in the sense that the self you imagine is not anyone that any of your friends know as you, nor would they be able to pick you out if you were to write your description of your "self." Doesnt mean it doesnt exist...well, manifest would i guess be the right term, it does not exist, literally, just like God hey! As proof i offer the difference in descriptions, thus definitions. A thing either is or is not, right
lol

but i mean really any psych can tell us that the ego is a construct, yeh? We just dont really meditate on the implications of that? The "you" that you know and love does not exist for anyone other than you

so in a very real sense we do not exist, at least not as we imagine

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

NO THEY'RE NOT FAROUK.

Unfortunately, I just don't feel like it right now.
But I'll give you this one: (and I've got pages of 'em)
Colossians 1:21-23
21And although you were formerly alienated and hostile in mind, engaged in evil deeds,
22yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach—
23if indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel that you have heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, was made a minister.

And since you're in the letter to the Romans,
let me post this verse:

Romans 11:21-22
21for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either.
22Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off.

Paul speaks of those who fell....
So I'd say it's possible to fall.

He speak of CONTINUING in God's kindness...
So I'd say it's possble to NOT continue in His kindness.

Perhaps you'd like to read something JESUS said:

Mathew 23:13 and
Mathew 25:45-46
45“Then He will answer them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’
46“These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
P
Now, so far you've never replied to my verses posted special for you.
Give it a try now...perhaps @Lady Crosstalk would like to give it a try.

Did you forget that NO ONE is righteous ("no, not one") except those who have been made righteous by the indwelling Holy Spirit and certainly not of ourselves? God sends the rain on the just and the unjust--He really is kind to all. Those who "remain in His kindness" are those who are under grace and will forever be entirely grateful for His specific kindness of the astounding act of pouring Himself out in a
saving act of grace and love.

In Luke 31-32 (also Mark 2:17) Jesus also observed, “Healthy people don’t need a doctor—sick people do. I have come to call not those who think they are righteous, but those who know they are sinners and need to repent. " (emphasis mine). Peace.

 

[farouk]

Farouk, how could someone "fall" from nothing? They HAD to be believers at one time. Paul tells us to CONTINUE the race until the Day of The Lord. (paraphrased) Many grow weary in well doing...

"Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ" (Philippians 1.6).

If God did not really begin a good work in someone, the person won't continue. If God does begin a good work in someone, then He will preserve the person.

 

[bbyrd009]

i guess also, as hard as this is to realize, your whole world, every single element of it, is a product of your imagination, in a certain specific and um very functional way. Find dreaming irl and then find lucid dreaming, imo. "become like a little kid" redux maybe. Your world is the way it is bc you have ordered it that way, and your world can completely change just by ordering it a different way. The observer changes the wave. projecting "grateful" at water and then filming the change in the crystal structure, very much. go outside and pick a corner of a cloud and make it disappear, or get denser. It gets boring after a while but i guess it was pretty wow at first lol. ah, something else, what was it...ya, forgot.
no wait, leave town broke at least for a minute, ok, a week you can do tomorrow maybe. get totally out of your comfort zone. see just like a little kid pretty much alla time, see, no comfort zone much at all, in that sense. Your um uncomfortabilitude is in direct relation to your worldification lol. Have a nice trip. When it gets really bad, remember that you are ordering the world that way in your mind, and manifesting it in real time. period. You can be eating dinner in a mansion that evening, if you only change your mind. It is literally freaky.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

"Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ" (Philippians 1.6).

If God did not really begin a good work in someone, the person won't continue. If God does begin a good work in someone, then He will preserve the person.

As long as they continue in and grow in trust.

Or maybe I should just say, preserve to WHAT?

 

[stunnedbygrace]

hmm. does your born-againness imply that you might go up to heaven after you have died?

Mmm...yes, my born againness does imply the hope of going where God is and seeing Him face to face and not being on this crappy circle any more. So...yes, my born againness does have that hope.

 

[Grailhunter]

Did you forget that NO ONE is righteous ("no, not one") except those who have been made righteous by the indwelling Holy Spirit and certainly not of ourselves? God sends the rain on the just and the unjust--He really is kind to all. Those who "remain in His kindness" are those who are under grace and will forever be entirely grateful for His specific kindness of the astounding act of pouring Himself out in a
saving act of grace and love.

In Luke 31-32 (also Mark 2:17) Jesus also observed, “Healthy people don’t need a doctor—sick people do. I have come to call not those who think they are righteous, but those who know they are sinners and need to repent. " (emphasis mine). Peace.

I am still praying.....

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

I am still praying.....

Thank you for your concern and prayers, Grailhunter. :cool: Hopefully, it is not a lost cause.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

i guess also, as hard as this is to realize, your whole world, every single element of it, is a product of your imagination, in a certain specific and um very functional way. Find dreaming irl and then find lucid dreaming, imo. "become like a little kid" redux maybe. Your world is the way it is bc you have ordered it that way, and your world can completely change just by ordering it a different way. The observer changes the wave. projecting "grateful" at water and then filming the change in the crystal structure, very much. go outside and pick a corner of a cloud and make it disappear, or get denser. It gets boring after a while but i guess it was pretty wow at first lol. ah, something else, what was it...ya, forgot.
no wait, leave town broke at least for a minute, ok, a week you can do tomorrow maybe. get totally out of your comfort zone. see just like a little kid pretty much alla time, see, no comfort zone much at all, in that sense. Your um uncomfortabilitude is in direct relation to your worldification lol. Have a nice trip. When it gets really bad, remember that you are ordering the world that way in your mind, and manifesting it in real time. period. You can be eating dinner in a mansion that evening, if you only change your mind. It is literally freaky.

When you say "your whole world", do you mean "the whole world?" Like, do you mean say...the literal sun is a figment of my imagination?

 

[Nancy]

"Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ" (Philippians 1.6).

If God did not really begin a good work in someone, the person won't continue. If God does begin a good work in someone, then He will preserve the person.

Hebrews 6:4-8
"For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame. 7For ground that drinks the rain which often falls on it and brings forth vegetation useful to those for whose sake it is also tilled, receives a blessing from God; 8but if it yields thorns and thistles, it is worthless and close to being cursed, and it ends up being burned."

Who is it that was "once enlightened"? The unsaved? No. This scripture clearly shows that one CAN walk away from Jesus. The work He began in us is completed IF we finish the race set before us.
"...and then have fallen away..." Fallen away from what?

John 15:10
"If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commands and remain in his love."

I don't want to bombard you with scripture verses as, there are so many cross references to these verses but...we might have to agree to disagree brother. ♥