Please explain this.

[bbyrd009]

That is your right, but I don't see what you have to complain about. You asked a rather brief and vague question ...


To which I offered what I thought was a fairly specific answer ...


Most of Jesus' "specific instructions" do not directly apply to me. I cannot let down a fishing net that I don't have. I cannot leave my fishing boat. I cannot climb down and prepare a dinner party at my home for Jesus. I cannot seek a colt tied up in town. I cannot stand watch in Gethsemane. I cannot sell my cloak to buy a sword. I cannot follow Jesus to see where he is sleeping tonight.

If you had specific questions about specific commands, then you should have asked them.

ah well my apologies then, i thought "instructions to the seventy" was plainer than it apparently is?

And fwiw in my lexicon at least "fishing net, boat, dinner party, colt of a donkey specifically, Gethsemane, cloak, sword, follow Jesus," these all have easily identifiable literal analogs

 

[brakelite]

"all us sabbatarians are about to be killed here any second" thing, i just cant help but goto "fear mongering"

Actually, the passage of scripture that mentions the mark etc isn't a warning about what becomes of Sabbatarians...but rather a warning of judgement against non-sabbatarians. That there is indeed coming a death sentence at some time is more an aside ...and there's plenty of encouragement elsewhere that it isn't what should concern us...God has our back. Discussions over the Sabbath/Sunday issue rarely progresses as far as consequences. God is gracious and no-one I know wants to start condemning Sunday keepers for ignorantly/innocently/servijng God the best they know how.
The issue currently isn't a "you should keep Sabbath and obey God" one. It is more a "you need Jesus and He will show you the way to go in good time". The urgency of the message however is t a warning that many who now currently have not attached much importance to the issue, would be well advised to take note that there are moves in certain circles, both Catholic and Protestant, to establish a sunday law (and not for the first time ) enforcing sunday observance and penalising dissenters. At first, such a law wont' bother me...I have no difficulty taking sunday off. I might even attend church on a sunday. NO worries. But history records that such laws quickly developed into anti-sabbath laws. At that time everyone is going to have to make a decision. Then, then, everyone will have to make a choice, and be adequately informed of the scriptural and historical foundations that undergird either sunday or sabbath observance. IT will then be a choice between obeying God, or obeying man. The interesting part for me and some of my friends is fitting this scenario into the Hegelian political movements now being enacted around us.

 

[bbyrd009]

Understanding what is coming shouldn't bring comfort.

ah, and what is coming, bl? Are you understanding that, or imagining it? See bc "secretly everyone is waiting for the end of the world" right? So we um naturally Read of armies arrayed for battle and whatnot, but even the Apostles imagined all kinds of things, entering Jerusalem for instance, that just werent true yeh?

Actually, the passage of scripture that mentions the mark etc isn't a warning about what becomes of Sabbatarians...but rather a warning of judgement against non-sabbatarians. That there is indeed coming a death sentence at some time is more an aside

forgot all about that brief naive episode now, huh bl? "Actually?" Actually wadr you are preaching at me again, ok, at least it sure feels that way, and i dont wanna get in your way or even damp you down there, might be helpful to someone idk but all i could really do herenow is dispute, being as how you have left no room for debate with your syntax wadr. See the only way i can walk beside you rather than behind you now is to dispute, right? So, i dispute, and not bc i want to either. Irl i would just ignore or dismiss, or maybe even make it a point to attend if i chose, but this is a forum so hereiam with little other choice, see

 

[brakelite]

ah, and what is coming, bl? Are you understanding that, or imagining it? See bc "secretly everyone is waiting for the end of the world" right? So we um naturally Read of armies arrayed for battle and whatnot, but even the Apostles imagined all kinds of things, entering Jerusalem for instance, that just werent true yeh?

Close, very, very close.

 

[bbyrd009]

forgot all about that naive thing huh bl. Talktome talktome talktome talktome, all played out bro, tell me did you feel that?
:)

 

[bbyrd009]

END

Now your question has been answered with absolutely no subtlety.

wadr i never quite got clear whether the Witch of Endor saw Samuel or not iyo? Ty

 

[brakelite]

Anyway, whenever i hear stuff like "the sky is falling, tomorrow," by which i mean thats the way i read your "all us sabbatarians are about to be killed here any second" thing, i just cant help but goto "fear mongering" mentally

Mmm, I think it was you who first mentioned Armageddon, and I offered my perspective on it. I normally don't mention the fate of Sabbath keepers although I do from time to time mention that the mark of the beast does come with a death sentence...but that doesn't necessarily mean it's a successful enterprise...like I said earlier, God has our back. The passages of scripture I was referencing was Revelation 14:6... The warning there isn't "actually" about the fate of Sabbatarians, but that of Sunday keepers. Fear-mongering B? I think I write often enough elsewhere of the blessings that attend Sabbath keeping to give some balance.

 

[farouk]

Was thinking about that exact same thing just minutes ago...fwiw:)

Hi; all that the believer has and is centred on Him. If we look at all the things mentioned in Philippians 4.8, for example, and follow through the themes, the themes in the end are all centred upon the Lord Jesus (e.g., truth, etc...)

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

I agree, except for your characterization of Luther's position on salvation. Luther never advocated that Faith apart from obedience would save anyone. Luther advocated that the power to save came from God without the need for our works to earn God's love.

"The first and chief article is this: Jesus Christ, our God and Lord, died for our sins and was raised again for our justification (Romans 3:24-25). He alone is the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world (John 1:29), and God has laid on Him the iniquity of us all (Isaiah 53:6). All have sinned and are justified freely, without their own works and merits, by His grace, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, in His blood (Romans 3:23-25). This is necessary to believe. This cannot be otherwise acquired or grasped by any work, law, or merit. Therefore, it is clear and certain that this faith alone justifies us." - Martin Luther​

Luther's faith only denies that one obeys UNTO salvation, hence James says one is not justified by faith only......one is not FIRST justified by faith only THEN obeys. Luther's ideas obviously contradicted James and therefore he attacked the epistle. Luther also contradicts Paul in Romans 6:17-18 where Paul has the order of:

1) servants of unrighteousness
2) obeyed from the heart
3) then freed from sin, a servant of righteousness.

Paul clearly puts obedience BEFORE justification/free from sin.


James-----------------works>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>justifies
Paul-----------------obey from the heart>>>>>>>>>>justifies/frees from sin

Paul agrees with James that works justify. Not just any kind of work justifies but specifically obedience to the will of God justifies.

 

[marks]

Yet if a professing Christian is disobedient, sinning, ungodly, unholy or profane, a liar, and exchanging the holy for the profane, (and who would declare the are no such ones, even ourselves perhaps to a certain extent) would not the law be for him? When we say the law is not for a righteous man, are we claiming it is for a man accounted righteous, or a man practicing righteousness? Or both?

Hi brakelite,

There is the man who is not born again, the child of Adam's line, who is the sinner, lawless, and ungodly, the Law is given for that man.

There is the man who is reborn with God's nature, and is now holy and righteous (Eph 4:24), the Law is not for that man.

Much love!

 

[Episkopos]

Hi brakelite,

There is the man who is not born again, the child of Adam's line, who is the sinner, lawless, and ungodly, the Law is given for that man.

There is the man who is reborn with God's nature, and is now holy and righteous (Eph 4:24), the Law is not for that man.

Much love!

This is not right.

We all need the law. To not be under the law means that we are walking in another power that fulfills the law. But the law is required as long as this age lasts.

Being reborn is not enough to be holy and righteous. Being reborn is something that God does...but as a deposit...a vessel...that is meant to go to God with so as to fill up with His oil...to enter INTO Christ. By doing so the person puts on God's holiness and righteousness.

So then the logic can easily be flipped upside down.

A born again Christian is now become subject to the law. He is not exempt from the law. It is the ungodly who will not submit to the law. We are not to be lawless as they are.

But here as elsewhere there is a lot of confusion of what is meant by "law."

Being born again places the law in our hearts....which we are to obey by walking out that law. When we find that we are still breaking the laws...that we now love...that's when we go to God in order to surrender ourselves so as to enter fully into Christ.

The cost of that is everything we have and are. The price is ALL. It never changes. AFTER that we are truly under grace since we are fully obeying the law...perfectly.

Is the law abolished for us? Not at all...it is meant to be fulfilled in us.

Rom. 8:4 so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

 

[bbyrd009]

This is not right.

We all need the law. To not be under the law means that we are walking in another power that fulfills the law. But the law is required as long as this age lasts.

Being reborn is not enough to be holy and righteous. Being reborn is something that God does...but as a deposit...a vessel...that is meant to go to God with so as to fill up with His oil...to enter INTO Christ. By doing so the person puts on God's holiness and righteousness.

So then the logic can easily be flipped upside down.

A born again Christian is now become subject to the law. He is not exempt from the law. It is the ungodly who will not submit to the law. We are not to be lawless as they are.

But here as elsewhere there is a lot of confusion of what is meant by "law."

Being born again places the law in our hearts....which we are to obey by walking out that law. When we find that we are still breaking the laws...that we now love...that's when we go to God in order to surrender ourselves so as to enter fully into Christ.

The cost of that is everything we have and are. The price is ALL. It never changes. AFTER that we are truly under grace since we are fully obeying the law...perfectly.

Is the law abolished for us? Not at all...it is meant to be fulfilled in us.

Rom. 8:4 so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

every one will reap what they sow whether they "believe" in works or not i reckon huh

 

[marks]

We all need the law. To not be under the law means that we are walking in another power that fulfills the law. But the law is required as long as this age lasts.

Hi Episkopos,

I don't disagree on the necessity of the Law, however, God tells us about it's application.

1 Timothy 1
7 Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.
8 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;
9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;
11 According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.

Much love!

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

To give credit where it may be due, I am not sure bbyrd009 is completely wrong in his theology. I am unsure if he is correct, incorrect or somewhere in between. His posts are so ‘sharp’ that it is difficult to tease the message out from the parries and thrusts.

I sort of wish he would just make theological points and support them with scripture without the snarking sarcasm and insults. However let’s be honest, this isn’t really a “communication” topic ... it feels more like a donnybrook (Irish brawl).

After you are here for a while, you learn to "ignore" him--I have him on ignore but occasionally I see a post of his on my email notification.

 

[bbyrd009]

Jesus says we all do:

• [Mat 10:28 NASB] 28 "Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

ah, and that should read Gehenna btw, not hell, dunno if you are aware, or someone else might not be anyway. To hell with scribes who add or subtract Scripture, i say

The Bible

your avatar tickles me no end for some reason mr bass, lol, ty

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

Do you really think that anyone who was living for the devil will be standing anywhere near Christ in judgement?

That is why said this: "It has been my experience that those who say such things are not in possession of eternal life." If they are truly His, they will want to live for Him and not for the devil.

Okay, an edit on that. Everyone must stand before Christ at some stage. What I mean by the above, for him, the outcome methinks will find him losing his balance rather abruptly when his foundations begin to crumble.

Agreed.

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

I have to agree with all of the above.

I just want to say that IF someone IS living for the devil...
how does he get into heaven?
Rev 21:27

@justbyfaith believes in a two tier belief system.
Some solution has to be found because there are persons going around who claim to be Christian but have not experienced what you say above.

I guess the answer is that many people claim to be all sorts of things, but are deluded or ignorant of what is required to say one is such a thing. For example, I might say that I am an airline pilot but, unless I have gone through the requisite training and licensing, it would be unwise for an airline to hire me. It has been my experience that those who say such things are ignorant or deluded and are NOT in possession of eternal life but remain dead in their trespasses and sins. Sadly, should they die in that state, it will not go well for them.

 

[GodsGrace]

ha well it has serious limitations, or at least i am not proficient at working it yet? I do a lot of editing of my posts, italics and whatnot, weird sentence constructions that are not acceptable English, that the feature fights, mostly. Might use it sometimes tho, as i dont feel compelled to do that when replying to the one eyed for whatever reason

Right.
And auto-correct makes me crrrrrazzyyyy.
I use my tablet for two languages....you know the rest of the story.

I've learned to just hit on one of those 3 words that appear on the top line.
It's easier.
If you can't fight 'em,,,
join 'em.

Yeah.

 

[GodsGrace]

I guess the answer is that many people claim to be all sorts of things, but are deluded or ignorant of what is required to say one is such a thing. For example, I might say that I am an airline pilot but, unless I have gone through the requisite training and licensing, it would be unwise for an airline to hire me. It has been my experience that those who say such things are ignorant or deluded and are NOT in possession of eternal life but remain dead in their trespasses and sins. Sadly, should they die in that state, it will not go well for them.

I AGREE!!
This is why I worry for their soul.
This is why I try so hard to make them realize their error.
I don't think it even works....
But, you know:
One plants, one waters and God gives the growth.

 

[bbyrd009]

Looking forward to you pages of convo!

ha as if right lol