Physical and Spiritual churches defined

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RichardBurger

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Physical and Spiritual churches defined:

*****
church:
In the early centuries of Christianity, “church” meant the community of all Christians. But in 1054, a split occurred between Christians in Western Europe and those in Eastern Europe and western Asia. The communities in Eastern Europe and western Asia became known as the Eastern Orthodox churches. ----- The early Christians had no physical church buildings because they feared persecution from the Roman rulers. They met secretly in private homes and in underground passages called catacombs.
Taken from “The World Book Encyclopedia.”
*****

*****
Church:
a building set apart or consecrated for public worship especially one for Christian worship.
the ecclesiastical government of a particular religious group.
the profession of the clergy; clerical profession.
having to do with organized Christian worship.
Taken from Webster’s New World Dictionary
*****

The physical, organized, Church ran by men:

The above definitions define the physical, organized, Church run by men. The Physical Church is an organization located at a physical place. It is the building and furniture located in the building. There are usually rooms for offices with desks, phones, etc. There are people in these offices that are paid, or volunteer, to carry out the business of the physical organization. There is a leader (CEO) who is called by names such as Pastor, Bishop, Priest, and Pope. The leaders of the physical Church set up the doctrines of the Church for all the common people that go there. They are the leaders or rulers. The common people are there to support the physical church by their money, time, and voluntary service but they do not have a say as to the doctrines of the Church leaders.

 
The Spiritual church:

The spiritual church is not made with human hands It has no physical location. “””Nor does it have any physical business to perform. It is not of this world.”””

The Spiritual church is in the hearts of each and every child of God. The child of God has been born of the Holy Spirit and is no longer a physical part of this world. The person lives in a body of flesh but it is not his home. The following scriptures support my conclusions.

1 Pet 2:4-5
4 As you come to him, the living Stone-- rejected by men but chosen by God and precious to him--
5 you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.
(NIV)

The true church is a Spiritual house. The church has this in common with the Jewish Temple of the O.T. in that it is the dwelling place of God on earth. But it is contrasted with the Temple, a physical, tangible, perishable materials. The church is a structure built of living stones.

John 18:36 Jesus speaking
36 Jesus answered, "My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, My servants would fight, so that I should not be delivered to the Jews; but **now** My kingdom is not from here."
Now = not at this moment

John 17:14-16 Jesus speaking
14 "I have given them Your word; and the world has hated them because they are not of the world, just as I am not of the world.
15 "I do not pray that You should take them out of the world, but that You should keep them from the evil one.
16 "They are not of the world, just as I am not of the world.
(NKJ)

Col 2:20
20 Therefore, if you died with Christ from the basic principles of the world, why, as though living in the world, do you subject yourselves to regulations--
(NKJ)

John 3:8 Jesus speaking
8 "The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit."
(NKJ)

1 Cor 2:13-14
13 These things we also speak, not in words which man's wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
(NKJ)

The true church is a spiritual one. It is not made with human hands or human works.

Acts 17:24-25
24 "The God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in temples built by hands.
25 And he is not served by human hands, as if he needed anything, because he himself gives all men life and breath and everything else.
(NIV)

Heb 9:11
11 When Christ came as high priest of the good things that are already here, he went through the greater and more perfect tabernacle that is not man-made, that is to say, not a part of this creation.
(NIV)

I have often wondered why men want a physical Church and I think it is because they can control a physical Church. They don’t have to be honest with a physical organized church. They can make it whatever they choose to make it. I think that is what John was expressing in John 3:19-21
19 And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20 For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed.
21 But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God."
NKJV

Man cannot control a Spiritual church. It exists in the hearts of God's children and God sees into everyone’s heart.

In Christian love, Richard
 
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Episkopos

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Physical and Spiritual churches defined:

*****
church:
In the early centuries of Christianity, “church” meant the community of all Christians. But in 1054, a split occurred between Christians in Western Europe and those in Eastern Europe and western Asia. The communities in Eastern Europe and western Asia became known as the Eastern Orthodox churches. ----- The early Christians had no physical church buildings because they feared persecution from the Roman rulers. They met secretly in private homes and in underground passages called catacombs.
Taken from “The World Book Encyclopedia.”
*****

*****
Church:
a building set apart or consecrated for public worship especially one for Christian worship.
the ecclesiastical government of a particular religious group.
the profession of the clergy; clerical profession.
having to do with organized Christian worship.
Taken from Webster’s New World Dictionary
*****

The physical, organized, Church ran by men:

The above definitions define the physical, organized, Church run by men. The Physical Church is an organization located at a physical place. It is the building and furniture located in the building. There are usually rooms for offices with desks, phones, etc. There are people in these offices that are paid, or volunteer, to carry out the business of the physical organization. There is a leader (CEO) who is called by names such as Pastor, Bishop, Priest, and Pope. The leaders of the physical Church set up the doctrines of the Church for all the common people that go there. They are the leaders or rulers. The common people are there to support the physical church by their money, time, and voluntary service but they do not have a say as to the doctrines of the Church leaders.

 
The Spiritual church:

The spiritual church is not made with human hands It has no physical location. “””Nor does it have any physical business to perform. It is not of this world.”””

The Spiritual church is in the hearts of each and every child of God. The child of God has been born of the Holy Spirit and is no longer a physical part of this world. The person lives in a body of flesh but it is not his home. The following scriptures support my conclusions.

1 Pet 2:4-5
4 As you come to him, the living Stone-- rejected by men but chosen by God and precious to him--
5 you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.
(NIV)

The true church is a Spiritual house. The church has this in common with the Jewish Temple of the O.T. in that it is the dwelling place of God on earth. But it is contrasted with the Temple, a physical, tangible, perishable materials. The church is a structure built of living stones.

John 18:36 Jesus speaking
36 Jesus answered, "My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, My servants would fight, so that I should not be delivered to the Jews; but **now** My kingdom is not from here."
Now = not at this moment

John 17:14-16 Jesus speaking
14 "I have given them Your word; and the world has hated them because they are not of the world, just as I am not of the world.
15 "I do not pray that You should take them out of the world, but that You should keep them from the evil one.
16 "They are not of the world, just as I am not of the world.
(NKJ)

Col 2:20
20 Therefore, if you died with Christ from the basic principles of the world, why, as though living in the world, do you subject yourselves to regulations--
(NKJ)

John 3:8 Jesus speaking
8 "The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit."
(NKJ)

1 Cor 2:13-14
13 These things we also speak, not in words which man's wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
(NKJ)

The true church is a spiritual one. It is not made with human hands or human works.

Acts 17:24-25
24 "The God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in temples built by hands.
25 And he is not served by human hands, as if he needed anything, because he himself gives all men life and breath and everything else.
(NIV)

Heb 9:11
11 When Christ came as high priest of the good things that are already here, he went through the greater and more perfect tabernacle that is not man-made, that is to say, not a part of this creation.
(NIV)

I have often wondered why men want a physical Church and I think it is because they can control a physical Church. They don’t have to be honest with a physical organized church. They can make it whatever they choose to make it. I think that is what John was expressing in John 3:19-21
19 And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20 For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed.
21 But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God."
NKJV

Man cannot control a Spiritual church. It exists in the hearts of God's children and God sees into everyone’s heart.

In Christian love, Richard

The spiritual church is also the true physical church. The religious intitutions are of men not God. So they are counterfeit if they are not spiritual in conduct and guidance. We cannot serve two masters.
 

veteran

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The spiritual church is also the true physical church. The religious intitutions are of men not God. So they are counterfeit if they are not spiritual in conduct and guidance. We cannot serve two masters.

And that's the real matter, since it's also the same example per OT Scripture of a house of God vs. a beth-aven (house of vanity).


BETH-AVEN

BETHAVEN

("house of nothingness or vanity"). On the mountains of Benjamin, E. of Bethel (Josh 7:2; 18:12), between it and Michmash (1 Sam 13:5; 14:23). Near it was the "wilderness," i.e. pasture land of Bethaven (Josh 18:12.) In Hos 4:15; 5:1; 10:5 Bethel, "house of God," is called Bethaven, "house of vanity," because of Jeroboam's golden calf.
(from Fausset's Bible Dictionary, Electronic Database Copyright ©1998 by Biblesoft)
 
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Episkopos

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And that's the real matter, since it's also the same example per OT Scripture of a house of God vs. a beth-aven (house of vanity).


BETH-AVEN

BETHAVEN

("house of nothingness or vanity"). On the mountains of Benjamin, E. of Bethel (Josh 7:2; 18:12), between it and Michmash (1 Sam 13:5; 14:23). Near it was the "wilderness," i.e. pasture land of Bethaven (Josh 18:12.) In Hos 4:15; 5:1; 10:5 Bethel, "house of God," is called Bethaven, "house of vanity," because of Jeroboam's golden calf.
(from Fausset's Bible Dictionary, Electronic Database Copyright ©1998 by Biblesoft)
This is truth!
 

Lively Stone

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Great post, Richard. We all need to know that Jesus is the one who established the Church, His spiritual people, bit He also set up the physical church for our benefit. The downside is that it has been abused by man's strong desire to run everything, and his penchant for religiosity. Are we to abandon meeting together becasue of the abuses? Not according to His word.


Hebrews 10:25 (NLT)

And let us not neglect our meeting together, as some people do, but encourage one another, especially now that the day of his return is drawing near.
 

prism

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The spiritual church is also the true physical church. The religious intitutions are of men not God. So they are counterfeit if they are not spiritual in conduct and guidance. We cannot serve two masters.

Since it is physical as well, where do we see it (except as the Church Triumphant)?.
 

veteran

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It's important to know just who it was that had hand in establishing the beth-avens (houses of vanity) per OT Scripture. It was not just about believers on The LORD GOD Yehovah, but servants of the devil who followed after paganism.

The area of Bethaven was a possession of the idol-worshipping Canaanites, the cities Ai and Jericho near it. God had told the Israelites to utterly destroy the nations of Canaan, leaving nothing alive that breatheth (Deut.20). God had given the Canaanites space of around 400 years to repent from their iniquities (Gen.15:16). God's prophet Hosea only used the 'Bethaven' label for Beth-El (house of God) because of how Jeroboam, king of Israel (ten tribes only) had setup golden calf idol worship in Bethel.

Bethel was the place where Jacob made a pillar stone his pillow, and had visions of angels, and anointed the stone in that area calling the place and stone Bethel (house of God - Gen.28; Gen.31:13). God agreed with Jacob doing that, and allowed it to be an early place for Israel to worship God . It bordered the southern part of Ephraim's lands, who took Bethel by God's hand for a possession (Judges 1).

After God split Israel into two separate kingdoms, the Ephraimite king Jeroboam over the ten northern tribes setup golden calf worship at Bethel and made common priests from Bethel; thus it became like old Beth-aven (house of vanity, or house of idols) - 1 Kings 12. And Canaanites were still there with a hand in that.

Why is knowing about that history important with this matter of mere physical places of worship vs. Christ's true spiritual Church?

It's a Lesson for us, even today, to be careful just 'where' or 'what' we put our faith in. What king Jeroboam had done was mix the method of true worship for that time with the Canaanite style pagan worship methods involving idols. He had done that for political purposes thinking to preserve his northern kingdom of Israel which God gave him (1 Kings 11). Instead, God destroyed Jeroboam's kingdom over the ten tribes, and removed them all out of the northern lands of Israel into captivity to Assyria.

Thus today, the real battle within Christ's Churches on earth is still... with the old Canaanite systems and methods of pagan worship that always seek to creep in and turn things upside down. Because Israel failed in God's command to utterly destroy all the Canaanite nations, He said He'd use them to test His people to see if His people would follow Him or not (Judges 2 & 3).

This is why today we can see some Christian Churches springing up supporting the gay lifestyle, and other Churches that practice some of the old repititious methods of pagan worship to induce spiritual phenomena within the Church. Those kind of things (including the gay lifestyle) originated with the old Canaanite nations, even using sexual fertility rituals as part of religious worship. Some Churches today are even inviting into their service shows of other religions under the guise of inter-faith cooperation. Dangerous times we're living in, especially for those who don't know their Old Testament history.
 

Episkopos

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Since it is physical as well, where do we see it (except as the Church Triumphant)?.
The true church in our time is in Babylonian captivity. There are very few who are left in the land. Most have been captured by the man-made institutions and share in the idolatries of this world.

For now....
 

prism

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The true church in our time is in Babylonian captivity. There are very few who are left in the land. Most have been captured by the man-made institutions and share in the idolatries of this world.

For now....

So, greater is he who is in the world than He who is in us?
I think the true church is in Christ although to varying degrees they are mesmerized by Babylon.
 

Stefcui

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I think the true church is in Christ although to varying degrees they are mesmerized by Babylon.

Mesmerised? Yes, drunk on the wine of her fornications... Spiritual compromise and unfaithfulness is called fornication. When we spiritually fornicate we become drunk. When we are drunk we cannot see straight, and our holiness is molested.

Are all churches in our time in Babylonian captivity”? I fear Episkopos is right.

When you are caught by the police for drink driving, you blow into the breathalyzer and you confess to having only two drinks, so you say to yourself, 'I will be fine.' Then you realize, ‘hey, I started drinking at 8.00 pm, and it’s now 2.00 am.’ That means you most likely have had maybe 3 or 4 drinks? Time went so fast and you had so much fun, you must have forgotten how many drinks you had. Next thing you realize is that you are a lot drunker than what you thought. Some come home after drinking and ask “what did I do last night?”

This never happens to Christians, of course. It only happens to unbelievers…

The principal is the same with spiritual drunkards. We don’t realize how drunk we are. God has a way of giving us a spiritual breathalyzer, and he says that we are all drunk. We say, “no were not...” We deny out sorry state, and continue in our sorry ways. We are drunkards and fornicators. God called His people Israel a harlot; and now He calls His people a Harlot again… What is it with us? Why are we so unfaithful? Why do we deny being drunk when God has the evidence?

God Bless
Steve
 

prism

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Steve,
You seem to be speaking of the apostate (liberal) church.
As the true church (regenerate of God through the Blood of Christ) we are not "drunkards and fornicators" and we don't "deny our sorry state" as you say.
Our state includes being Children of God, purchased/ransom/redeemed by the Blood of Christ risen with Christ, seated in the heavenlies, filled with His Holy Spirit, sealed unto the Day of redemption of our bodies etc. etc.
 

Stefcui

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As the true church (regenerate of God through the Blood of Christ) we are not "drunkards and fornicators" and we don't "deny our sorry state" as you say.

Of course not, you are the church of Philadelphia... every other church needs to repent; but not you... One day they will write stories about you..,
 

prism

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I am the Church of Philadelphia??
Oooookayyyy, whatever you say.
 

aspen

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Boy....talk about confusing!

I am in no way in agreement with Prism on most subjects........but I have had to humble myself over and over again because he/she has been consistently right regarding Biblical interpretation - the fact is, I rely on him/her as an anchor on this website.
 

prism

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Apsen,

The respect is mutual and so are our often disagreements.
 

Episkopos

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Rather than boast and be arrogant it is far wiser to just claim to be a Laodicean like everyone else and take it from there. It is far safer to assume you're duped and asleep spiritually then make Pharisaical claims to be able to see and thus prove you're a Pharisee.
 

RichardBurger

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Rather than boast and be arrogant it is far wiser to just claim to be a Laodicean like everyone else and take it from there. It is far safer to assume you're duped and asleep spiritually then make Pharisaical claims to be able to see and thus prove you're a Pharisee.

The truth is that no one can proclaim that Jesus' shed blood on the cross pays for their sins unless they truely believe it does.