PETER AND PAUL AND THE RESURRECTION AND SALVATION

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Matthias

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If there is only one gospel …

Why if? Paul himself tells us that there is only one gospel.

…. what do you do with this verse

[Rev 14:6 KJV] 6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
[Rev 14:7 KJV] 7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

What do I do with it? I believe it.

It does not say believe Christ died for our sins was buried rose again nor the kingdom is at hand

All of those things go hand in hand with fearing the one God.
 

Matthias

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Paul said this seeing he preached that the message of the grace of God made Jew and Gentile one in Christ
Jews today are to believe the gospel Paul preached to become one new creature

The message of the grace of God is the message of the kingdom of God.
 

Matthias

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But Paul says otherwise
[1Co 11:1 KJV] 1 Be ye followers of me, even as I also [am] of Christ.
If one wants to follow Jesus we should follow Paul

Paul doesn’t say otherwise. I follow Paul because he, just like all of the other apostles, follows Jesus.

Every follower of Jesus must follow the apostles.
 

Matthias

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What verse says there is a body of Messiah

Why are you asking? This is another reasonable question, and one that I would expect a newbie to ask.

Are you telling me that you don’t see the body of Messiah presented in scripture? Are you telling me that the concept has no meaning whatsoever to you?

If that really is the case, then we can and should discuss it.
 

Doug

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What do I do with it? I believe it.
If there is only one gospel …
Why if? Paul himself tells us that there is only one gospel.

…. what do you do with this verse

[Rev 14:6 KJV] 6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
[Rev 14:7 KJV] 7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.
What do I do with it? I believe it.

So if you believe the everlasting gospel in Revelation then you believe there is more than one gospel
 

Doug

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Are you telling me that you don’t believe the audience that Jesus and the apostles are addressing isn’t all of mankind?
[Mat 10:5-6 KJV] 5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into [any] city of the Samaritans enter ye not: 6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

At that time Jesus told them only go to Israel not all of mankind....we can see dispensations here....he later would tell them to preach to all nations
 

Matthias

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[Mat 10:5-6 KJV] 5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into [any] city of the Samaritans enter ye not: 6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

At that time Jesus told them only go to Israel not all of mankind....we can see dispensations here....he later would tell them to preach to all nations

Their preaching of the gospel has gone into all nations. That’s the worldwide audience of mankind.
 

Doug

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I follow Jesus and all of the apostles. Anything short of that is dividing the body of Messiah.
What I meant to say was show me a verse in Jesus's or the twelve's ministry where they revealed the body of Christ
Why are you asking? This is another reasonable question, and one that I would expect a newbie to ask.

Are you telling me that you don’t see the body of Messiah presented in scripture? Are you telling me that the concept has no meaning whatsoever to you?

If that really is the case, then we can and should discuss it.
What I meant to say was show me a verse in Jesus's or the twelve's ministry where they revealed the body of Christ
 

Matthias

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What I meant to say was show me a verse in Jesus's or the twelve's ministry where they revealed the body of Christ

What I meant to say was show me a verse in Jesus's or the twelve's ministry where they revealed the body of Christ

The followers of anyone constitute the body of believers in the one being followed.

The followers of Jesus are the body of believers in the Messiah.

We see it being displayed, revealed, lived, in the ministry of Jesus and all of the apostles. It is the story of the church, and that story doesn’t begin with the ministry of Paul.
 

Doug

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There is only one gospel and it is called everlasting.
[Rev 14:7 KJV] 7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

It does not say anything about the cross or the kingdom
 

Matthias

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[Rev 14:7 KJV] 7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

It does not say anything about the cross or the kingdom

It doesn’t have to. Fearing God is related to believing the gospel of God.
 

Doug

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Their preaching of the gospel has gone into all nations. That’s the worldwide audience of mankind.
The twelve were to preach Matthew 28:19-20 but as far as I know they never left Jerusalem and could not fulfill it

[Act 8:1 KJV] 1 And Saul was consenting unto his death. And at that time there was a great persecution against the church which was at Jerusalem; and they were all scattered abroad throughout the regions of Judaea and Samaria, except the apostles.

Besides that they gave up the command in Galatians when they determined to go only to the circumcision

[Gal 2:9 KJV] 9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we [should go] unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.
 

Doug

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The followers of anyone constitute the body of believers in the one being followed.

The followers of Jesus are the body of believers in the Messiah.

We see it being displayed, revealed, lived, in the ministry of Jesus and all of the apostles. It is the story of the church, and that story doesn’t begin with the ministry of Paul.
Only Paul revealed the body of Christ the twelve and the remnant were in Christ but not in the body
 

Matthias

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The twelve were to preach Matthew 28:19-20 but as far as I know they never left Jerusalem and could not fulfill it

I’m linking an article which I think does a pretty good job of addressing where the twelve went.


[Act 8:1 KJV] 1 And Saul was consenting unto his death. And at that time there was a great persecution against the church which was at Jerusalem; and they were all scattered abroad throughout the regions of Judaea and Samaria, except the apostles.

Besides that they gave up the command in Galatians when they determined to go only to the circumcision

There is only one gospel. The apostles gave up nothing concerning the gospel.

[Gal 2:9 KJV] 9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we [should go] unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.
 

Matthias

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Only Paul revealed the body of Christ the twelve and the remnant were in Christ but not in the body

This is very important for our readers, especially newbies, to see and think carefully about: You’ve excluded the other apostles from being in the body of Christ.

I would explain to newbies that being “in Christ” is being ”in the body of Christ.”
 

Doug

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If a person is not born again, then this proves you have not been forgiven your sin, and are not a Christian.
You can use that phrase but all I was saying it's misapplied Biblically
Paul never uses it for the body of Christ.
 

Doug

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It doesn’t have to. Fearing God is related to believing the gospel of God.
Peter preached the name of Christ
Paul preached Christ and the cross
But the everlasting preaches the hour of judgement