Peace on Earth and Goodwill to all men

[bro.tan]

“Tis the season to be jolly.” Peace on Earth and Goodwill to all men. These are sayings associated with Christmas, the day that Jesus the Christ was born; or was it? Certainly this could be a description of Christmas. Celebrations such as these were taking place among non-Christians centuries before Jesus Christ was born! Such customs do not come from the Bible. They have nothing to do with the birth of Jesus Christ. Jesus did not originate them, nor were they observed by the prophets (Old Testament) or the apostles (New Testament). We're going to examine Christmas, its origin and customs, and see if in fact Christmas is of God or Pagan. Should it be Celebrated or Rejected?

Peace on Earth and Goodwill to all men. Why, because we feed and shelter the less fortunate on this one day called Christmas? Shouldn't we care for the less fortunate all year long? Retailers increase the prices on merchandise, to try to recover from poor sales from the 1st three-quarters of the fiscal year.

Christmas (December 25th) is taught to be the day that Jesus the Christ was born. The fact is Jesus was not even born in the winter season. When Jesus was born, "there were shepherds abiding in the field, keeping watch over their flock by night." (Luke 2:8). This could never have occurred in Judea in the month of December. The shepherds always brought their flocks from the mountainsides and fields and corralled them no later than October, to protect them from the cold, rainy season that followed. Notice in Songs of Solomon 2:11 and Ezra 10:9, 13, that winter was a rainy season and typically the herds would most likely not be out in the rainy winter season. "It was an ancient custom among Jews of those days to send out their sheep to the fields and deserts about the Passover (early spring), and bring them home at commencement of the first rain," says the Adam Clarke Commentary (Vol. 5, page 370, New York ed.) Continuing, "During the time they were out, the shepherds watched them night and day. As..the first rain began early in the month of Marchesvan, which answers to part of our October and November (begins sometime in October), we find that the sheep were kept out in the open country during the whole summer. And, as these shepherds had not yet brought home their flocks, it is a presumptive argument that October had not yet commenced, and that, consequently, Jesus was not born on December 25th, when no flocks were out in the fields; nor could He have been born later than September, as the flocks were in the fields by night.

Therefore, to celebrate Jesus' birth date on December 25th is not scripturally sound. Any encyclopedia will tell you that Christ was not born on December 25th. The exact date of Jesus' birth is entirely unknown, as all authorities acknowledge - though by reading the scriptures, it strongly indicates His birth was in the early fall, probably September, approximately six months after Passover. This can also be found in the Catholic Encyclopedia 1967.

Some may say, "It does not matter when He was born. I am just celebrating His birth."; whereas others may say "Jesus is the reason for the season." Is that really the case? If Jesus is the reason for the season, then why didn't He let us know when to celebrate his birth? We claim we love Jesus so much but why don't we observe his death as he commanded us. Luke 22:19, "And he took bread, and gave thanks, and break it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me." He commanded you to observe the Passover, not Easter, which is also a pagan holiday associated with wild sexual orgies.

Jesus commanded us to observe the Holy Days in Leviticus the 23rd chapter but we ignore those days and observe traditions that have nothing to do with Jesus. But Jesus says in (Matthew 15: 1-9). 1 Then came to Jesus scribes and Pharisees, which were of Jerusalem, saying, 2 Why do thy disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? for they wash not their hands when they eat bread. 3 But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition? 4 For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death. 5 But ye say, Whosoever shall say to his father or his mother, It is a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; 6 And honour not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition. 7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying, 8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. 9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

 

[Rockerduck]

“Tis the season to be jolly.” Peace on Earth and Goodwill to all men. These are sayings associated with Christmas, the day that Jesus the Christ was born; or was it? Certainly this could be a description of Christmas. Celebrations such as these were taking place among non-Christians centuries before Jesus Christ was born! Such customs do not come from the Bible. They have nothing to do with the birth of Jesus Christ. Jesus did not originate them, nor were they observed by the prophets (Old Testament) or the apostles (New Testament). We're going to examine Christmas, its origin and customs, and see if in fact Christmas is of God or Pagan. Should it be Celebrated or Rejected?

Peace on Earth and Goodwill to all men. Why, because we feed and shelter the less fortunate on this one day called Christmas? Shouldn't we care for the less fortunate all year long? Retailers increase the prices on merchandise, to try to recover from poor sales from the 1st three-quarters of the fiscal year.

Christmas (December 25th) is taught to be the day that Jesus the Christ was born. The fact is Jesus was not even born in the winter season. When Jesus was born, "there were shepherds abiding in the field, keeping watch over their flock by night." (Luke 2:8). This could never have occurred in Judea in the month of December. The shepherds always brought their flocks from the mountainsides and fields and corralled them no later than October, to protect them from the cold, rainy season that followed. Notice in Songs of Solomon 2:11 and Ezra 10:9, 13, that winter was a rainy season and typically the herds would most likely not be out in the rainy winter season. "It was an ancient custom among Jews of those days to send out their sheep to the fields and deserts about the Passover (early spring), and bring them home at commencement of the first rain," says the Adam Clarke Commentary (Vol. 5, page 370, New York ed.) Continuing, "During the time they were out, the shepherds watched them night and day. As..the first rain began early in the month of Marchesvan, which answers to part of our October and November (begins sometime in October), we find that the sheep were kept out in the open country during the whole summer. And, as these shepherds had not yet brought home their flocks, it is a presumptive argument that October had not yet commenced, and that, consequently, Jesus was not born on December 25th, when no flocks were out in the fields; nor could He have been born later than September, as the flocks were in the fields by night.

Therefore, to celebrate Jesus' birth date on December 25th is not scripturally sound. Any encyclopedia will tell you that Christ was not born on December 25th. The exact date of Jesus' birth is entirely unknown, as all authorities acknowledge - though by reading the scriptures, it strongly indicates His birth was in the early fall, probably September, approximately six months after Passover. This can also be found in the Catholic Encyclopedia 1967.

Some may say, "It does not matter when He was born. I am just celebrating His birth."; whereas others may say "Jesus is the reason for the season." Is that really the case? If Jesus is the reason for the season, then why didn't He let us know when to celebrate his birth? We claim we love Jesus so much but why don't we observe his death as he commanded us. Luke 22:19, "And he took bread, and gave thanks, and break it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me." He commanded you to observe the Passover, not Easter, which is also a pagan holiday associated with wild sexual orgies.

Jesus commanded us to observe the Holy Days in Leviticus the 23rd chapter but we ignore those days and observe traditions that have nothing to do with Jesus. But Jesus says in (Matthew 15: 1-9). 1 Then came to Jesus scribes and Pharisees, which were of Jerusalem, saying, 2 Why do thy disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? for they wash not their hands when they eat bread. 3 But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition? 4 For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death. 5 But ye say, Whosoever shall say to his father or his mother, It is a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; 6 And honour not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition. 7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying, 8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. 9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

Matthew and Luke made a big deal out of Christ birth, that means something about celebrating. The angel announced Christs birth in a big way.
And behold, an angel of the Lord stood before them, and the glory of the Lord shone around them, and they were greatly afraid. 10 Then the angel said to them, “Do not be afraid, for behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy which will be to all people. 11 For there is born to you this day in the city of David a Savior, who is Christ the Lord. 12 And this will be the sign to you: You will find a Babe wrapped in swaddling cloths, lying in a manger.”
13 And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God and saying:
14 “Glory to God in the highest, And on earth peace, goodwill toward men!”.

Who were the first missionaries? The Shepherds were, do you know why?

And they came with haste and found Mary and Joseph, and the Babe lying in a manger. 17 Now when they had seen Him, they made widely known the saying which was told them concerning this Child. 18 And all those who heard it marveled at those things which were told them by the shepherds.

Don't you think alot of people remembered that night, after the shepherds made the birth widely known.

Do a little research and you'll find Nativity scenes being put up in the first century churches.

While the Scriptures do not state what date Jesus was born, there is in fact a wealth of evidence presented in the Gospels that a careful comparison with historical and archaeological data will demonstrate that the date that has been held as that of the birth of Jesus since very nearly the time of the Apostles is testified to by theologians as early as 50 years after the Apostles:

Theophilus Bishop of Caesarea (115-181)wrote: "We ought to celebrate the birthday of our Lord on what day so ever the 25th of December shall happen." (Magdeburgenses, Cent. 2. c. 6. Hospinian, de orign Festorum Chirstianorum)

Also Hippolytus (ca. 165 – 235 C.E.), in his commentary on Daniel 4:23 wrote: “The first coming of our Lord, that is in the flesh, in which he was born at Bethlehem, took place eight days before the Kalends of January …”
Eight days before the calends of January is December 25.

And another citation: Theophilus of Antioch (ca. 171 – 183 C.E.), in his discussion about the proper time to observe Easter state that the Gauls contended that just as they celebrated the birth of the Lord on December 25, regardless of what day of the week that fell on, so too Christians ought to celebrate Easter on March 25, regardless of what day of the week that fell on.

So there is ample evidence that the nativity of Jesus was being celebrated on December 25 from very shortly after the lifetime of the Apostles.

 

[Rockerduck]

You’ll notice the average night time temperature in Bethlehem on Christmas Eve is 42 degrees F, mild by any standards, and certainly not so cold that woolly sheep could not be out in the fields. Temperatures on Christmas Day are in the 60's. Israel has a moderate climate. After all, this is a land of palm trees, and fig trees, and pomegranates, plants that only grow in climates with mild winter temperatures.

But for specific historical references on the actual practice at the time of Jesus’ birth, there are two references in the Talmudic literature (Bezah 40a and Tosephta Bezah iv. 6) that says specifically that during the 2nd Temple times the flocks of sheep laid out both in the summer and in the rainy season, ergo, summer and winter, which directly refutes the unsupported notion that woolly flocks of sheep couldn’t have been out in the fields Christmas Eve because of the weather.

But that aside, the primary issue is that the flock at Bethlehem was no ordinary flock anyway. You must understand that the temple cultus required literally thousands of animals to meet the sacrificial needs, so much so that sacrificial animals was the primary import commodity of Israel during the 2nd temple period (“Jerusalem in the Time of Jesus,” Joachim Jeremias Part One: II. A. 3. c) Josephus records that as many as a quarter million lambs could be slain on Passover alone. But the problem is that Rabbinic laws prevented the keeping of sheep near a city or town or village because of the smell, along with other activities that produced offensive odors. And if you have ever been anywhere near a stockyard then you can appreciate why the Rabbis would not want to have thousands of lambs and goats and cattle kept anywhere near the city. Plus, if you’re familiar with the topography of Jerusalem, the only possible place which could be used for such a purpose would have been the slopes of Mount Scopus north of the city. But with the prevailing winds in winter and spring being from the west and north, the stench would have been blown directly into the city. So the solution was to quarter the animals 5 miles south of the city, at the village of Bethlehem. These flocks of sheep kept in Bethlehem were the “temple flock” spoken of in Talmudic literature, not ordinary flocks. So even if sheep were not kept out in fields at night in winter (which is not historically accurate), that would not apply to the flocks and herds kept at Bethlehem. These were not ordinary sheep but were inspected and then pastured there until they were needed and were brought up to the city for sacrifice.

 

[Rockerduck]

And a second bit of historical data the Gospel provide to those familiar with the times and culture and laws, these were no ordinary shepherds at Bethlehem. The reason we know this is that shepherds were among the class of Jews who were considered “unclean” because of their occupation, along with tax collectors, weavers, tanners, physicians, sanitation workers, etc. Because a shepherd had to travel with his flock seeking pasturage and water, he was unable to live a “kosher” life and was therefore considered defiled and the people were banned from socializing with them. And yet, on the night of Christ’s birth, we see the shepherds of Bethlehem going freely about the countryside speaking with everyone about the things they had seen and heard. The reason is that these were no ordinary shepherds, they kept watch over the flock of sheep destined for sacrifice in Jerusalem, so they were not isolated from the religious life of the community but in fact played a crucial role in that religious life.

 

[Rockerduck]

And one more bit of data, this time from archaeology. We know that Bethlehem was the ancestral home of David, and was therefore a royal city. And at one time there was a castle there. Of course, even by the time of Jesus the castle had long since become a ruin. But it is believed that the “tower” from which the shepherds kept watch over the fields that lay just east of Bethlehem was in fact one of the old watchtowers from the royal castle. And there was an ancient prophecy from Micah (4:8) that foretold that the Messianic kingdom would be announced from this watchtower, the “Migdal Eder,” or “watchtower of the flock.” The Talmud also records that the Jews believed, based on that prophecy, that the Messiah would be born in the royal castle. How appropriate that the birth of the Savior should be announced by those very shepherds who kept watch from the royal "tower of the flock" over the lambs destined for sacrifice in Jerusalem.

 

[Rockerduck]

Census time

December would have been the most logical time for a country-wide census. The agricultural year for Israel began in March with the flax and barley harvest and ended in November with the last of the fall planting of the grain crops.

Students tend to think of the agricultural year as something similar to the west, where we plant crops in the spring and harvest in the summer or fall. But in Israel it was different. The primary planting season was the fall. After the long, summer dry-season ended and the rains came in the fall to soften the soil the farmers would go out into the fields and plant their grain crops. The crops would grow over winter and be harvested in spring and early summer. Then the summer dry season began and the fig harvest which was then followed by the vintage in late summer. Then the cycle began anew.

So the period of time between the vintage in late summer and the completion of the planting in late fall was a very busy time and it is unlikely that a census that would require an entire population to be uprooted and moved around would have been conducted then. And same with the spring and early summer when the grain crops had to be harvested. The summer dry season would have been brutal with scorching temperatures and no water. And in late summer the vintage took place. The only time that was economically feasible was in fact the early winter, after the olive harvest was finished and the crops were all planted and there was no more agricultural activity until the spring, and the heaviest rains had not yet begun.

And a second point, while it was Augustus who issued the decree, it was up to Herod to carry it out, and he did so, belatedly because of the intrigues and problems at court, but the census was conducted according to Jewish law, by tribes, which means every person had to return to the ancestral seat of their fathers, unlike the Roman method which required every man to be counted in the city of his birth. And undoubtedly Herod had every reason to try to assure that there was as little disruption to the agricultural-based economy as possible, his tax revenue depended on it.

And a third point, travel in late December certainly did not pose any problem, the heaviest rains were in January and February. There is ample historical evidence that the Jews traveled up to Jerusalem from all over Palestine for Chanukah, which occurs at the same time of year. Jesus even went up to the Temple for the feast one year. (see John 4:35 cf. John 5:1)

 

[Rockerduck]

Now about those pagan holidays

Generally the charge is that Christianity has adopted a pagan holiday and the gross commercialization and abuses of the holiday are somehow supposed to prove it's "pagan" origins. But in truth the commercialization and abuses of the holidays are not because Christians adopted pagan celebrations 1688 years ago, but rather quite the opposite, pagans and atheists have adopted Christian holidays, stripped them of their religious significance, and then filled the void with material excesses. It is pagans who have adopted Christians holidays, not the other way around.

 

[bro.tan]

Matthew and Luke made a big deal out of Christ birth, that means something about celebrating. The angel announced Christs birth in a big way.
And behold, an angel of the Lord stood before them, and the glory of the Lord shone around them, and they were greatly afraid. 10 Then the angel said to them, “Do not be afraid, for behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy which will be to all people. 11 For there is born to you this day in the city of David a Savior, who is Christ the Lord. 12 And this will be the sign to you: You will find a Babe wrapped in swaddling cloths, lying in a manger.”
13 And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God and saying:
14 “Glory to God in the highest, And on earth peace, goodwill toward men!”.

Who were the first missionaries? The Shepherds were, do you know why?

And they came with haste and found Mary and Joseph, and the Babe lying in a manger. 17 Now when they had seen Him, they made widely known the saying which was told them concerning this Child. 18 And all those who heard it marveled at those things which were told them by the shepherds.

Don't you think alot of people remembered that night, after the shepherds made the birth widely known.

Do a little research and you'll find Nativity scenes being put up in the first century churches.

While the Scriptures do not state what date Jesus was born, there is in fact a wealth of evidence presented in the Gospels that a careful comparison with historical and archaeological data will demonstrate that the date that has been held as that of the birth of Jesus since very nearly the time of the Apostles is testified to by theologians as early as 50 years after the Apostles:

Theophilus Bishop of Caesarea (115-181)wrote: "We ought to celebrate the birthday of our Lord on what day so ever the 25th of December shall happen." (Magdeburgenses, Cent. 2. c. 6. Hospinian, de orign Festorum Chirstianorum)

Also Hippolytus (ca. 165 – 235 C.E.), in his commentary on Daniel 4:23 wrote: “The first coming of our Lord, that is in the flesh, in which he was born at Bethlehem, took place eight days before the Kalends of January …”
Eight days before the calends of January is December 25.

And another citation: Theophilus of Antioch (ca. 171 – 183 C.E.), in his discussion about the proper time to observe Easter state that the Gauls contended that just as they celebrated the birth of the Lord on December 25, regardless of what day of the week that fell on, so too Christians ought to celebrate Easter on March 25, regardless of what day of the week that fell on.

So there is ample evidence that the nativity of Jesus was being celebrated on December 25 from very shortly after the lifetime of the Apostles.

World Scope Encyclopedia (1960 vol.3) states, "Christmas, the festival observed by the Christian Church on the 25th day of December in commemoration of the birth of Jesus Christ. No certain knowledge of the birthday of Jesus Christ exists and its observance was not established until some time after the organization of the first churches. The 25th day of December was advocated by Julius 1, Bishop of Rome from 337 to 352, as the most suitable time to commemorate the birth of Christ. The day was finally placed on December 25th, which made it possible for all nations to observe a festival of rejoicing that the shortest day of the year has passed. Moreover, the newly converted peoples found it convenient to get a kind of substitute for their original celebrations of the solstice". The birth of Jesus the Christ was assigned the date of December 25th, because on this day, as the sun began its return to the northern skies, the pagan devotees of Mithra celebrated the dies natalis Solis Invicti (birthday of the invincible sun). The history book a Pictorial History of the Italian People states, "Saint Gregory was repelled by Graeco-Roman civilization and, paradoxically, did more than anyone else to facilitate the absorption of pagan residues into Italian Christianity. Through that process of absorption, any paganism hostile to Christianity remaining in Italian rural communities faded away". Check your history, you'll find that the customs associated with Christmas were celebrated some 2000 years before Jesus.

 

[Rockerduck]

World Scope Encyclopedia (1960 vol.3) states, "Christmas, the festival observed by the Christian Church on the 25th day of December in commemoration of the birth of Jesus Christ. No certain knowledge of the birthday of Jesus Christ exists and its observance was not established until some time after the organization of the first churches. The 25th day of December was advocated by Julius 1, Bishop of Rome from 337 to 352, as the most suitable time to commemorate the birth of Christ. The day was finally placed on December 25th, which made it possible for all nations to observe a festival of rejoicing that the shortest day of the year has passed. Moreover, the newly converted peoples found it convenient to get a kind of substitute for their original celebrations of the solstice". The birth of Jesus the Christ was assigned the date of December 25th, because on this day, as the sun began its return to the northern skies, the pagan devotees of Mithra celebrated the dies natalis Solis Invicti (birthday of the invincible sun). The history book a Pictorial History of the Italian People states, "Saint Gregory was repelled by Graeco-Roman civilization and, paradoxically, did more than anyone else to facilitate the absorption of pagan residues into Italian Christianity. Through that process of absorption, any paganism hostile to Christianity remaining in Italian rural communities faded away". Check your history, you'll find that the customs associated with Christmas were celebrated some 2000 years before Jesus.

I gave you references from the early second century that refutes that. Julius 1 bishop of Rome did not write that about Christmas,. It was fake letter So don't fall for lies, research it yourself.

 

[Rockerduck]

If anyone wants to believe that the shepherds didn't widely tell everyone they could that Messiah was born. Fine.
If anyone believes that Mary and Jesus's brothers and sisters never told anyone when Jesus was born. Fine
If anyone believes the Apostles and all the disciples never told anyone the date of Jesus's birth. Fine.

The early Church certainly believed it and Matthew and Luke documented it, which means we should celebrate it.

 

[bro.tan]

I gave you references from the early second century that refutes that. Julius 1 bishop of Rome did not write that about Christmas,. It was fake letter So don't fall for lies, research it yourself.

I have a little research and this is what I see, if we got Christmas from the Roman Catholics, and they got it from paganism, where did the pagans get it? Where, when, and what was its real origin? It started and originated in the original Bablyhon of ancient Nimrod. Nimrod, grandson of Ham, son of Noah built the tower of Babel. Nimrod married his own mother, whose name is Semiramis. After Nimrod's, Semiramis claimed a full grown evergreen tree sprang overnight from a dead tree stump, which symbolized the springing forth unto new life of the dead Nimrod. On each anniversary of his birth, she claimed Nimrod would visit the evergreen tree and leave gifts upon it. December 25th was the birthday of Nimrod. This is the real origin of the Christmas tree.

Through her scheming and designing, Semiramis became the Babylonia "Queen of Heaven," and Nimrod, under various names, became the "divine son of heaven." Through the generations, in this idolatrius worship, Nimrod also became the false Messiah, son of Baal the Sun-god. In this false Bablyhonish system, the "Mother and Child" (Semiramis and Nimrod reborn) became chief objects of worship. This worship of "Mother and Child" spread over the world. The names varied in different countries and languages. In Egypt it was Isis and Osiris. In Asia, Cybele and Deoius. In pagan Rome, Fortuna and Jupiterpuer. Even in Greece, China, Japan, Tibet is to be found the counterpart of the Madonna, long before the birth of Christ. The Lord God of Israel made reference to the worshiping and sacrificing to the "Queen of Heaven" in Jeremiah.

Jeremiah 7:18 The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead their dough, to make cakes to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto other gods, that they may provoke me to anger.

If anyone wants to believe that the shepherds didn't widely tell everyone they could that Messiah was born. Fine.
If anyone believes that Mary and Jesus's brothers and sisters never told anyone when Jesus was born. Fine
If anyone believes the Apostles and all the disciples never told anyone the date of Jesus's birth. Fine.

The early Church certainly believed it and Matthew and Luke documented it, which means we should celebrate it.

The bible record of the birth of Jesus doesn't give a date for his birth. Even Herod, the King of Judea, didn't know the date of Jesus birth; so how can we know it? The wise men (maybe 2 or 300), the bible didn't give a number, found the young child (not infant) in the house (not the manger). Well, so much for that fairy tale.

Let's look at some of the absurd things applied to the day that man has set for the birthday of the Son of God, Jesus the Christ, our Savior. Santa Clause, Ole Saint Nick, that jolly old fat man that lives in the North Pole, runs a workshop with Elves (little people) and ride on a sleigh pulled by flying reindeer. He is reported to deliver gifts to all good children around the world on Christmas, beginning at midnight and being done before morning. Entering houses by landing his sleigh on the rooftops and descending down the chimney with his bag of toys on his back. Once in the house, he puts the toys around the Christmas tree, eats the cookies and drinks the milk that is left for him before going to the next house. Sometimes taking time to get a kiss from mommy. Well, according to history, Saint Nicholas, who they portray Santa Clause, or Ole Saint Nick after, was a 4th century Bishop of Myra, which is located in Asia Minor , on the southwestern coast of the Mediterranean Sea.

A long way away from the North Pole! Also, according to Webster student dictionary, the definition for Nick, "The Devil" usually Old Nick. Now, is it possible to travel around the world in less than 24 hours stopping at every house? Reindeers don't fly; Christmas takes place in winter, so there's fire in the fireplaces to keep the house warm. What do you think would happen to a fat man trying to come down a chimney with a bag of toys on his back with a fire in the fireplace? If it's suppose to be Jesus birthday; why do we have to buy each other presents and what do we give him? A day filled with drinking, resulting in drunkenness, a day with a lot of fornication and adultery taking place. A day filled with lies pertaining to him. And what do a decorated tree, mistletoe, Yule logs, fire and lights have to do with Jesus?

 

[Rockerduck]

I have a little research and this is what I see, if we got Christmas from the Roman Catholics, and they got it from paganism, where did the pagans get it? Where, when, and what was its real origin? It started and originated in the original Bablyhon of ancient Nimrod. Nimrod, grandson of Ham, son of Noah built the tower of Babel. Nimrod married his own mother, whose name is Semiramis. After Nimrod's, Semiramis claimed a full grown evergreen tree sprang overnight from a dead tree stump, which symbolized the springing forth unto new life of the dead Nimrod. On each anniversary of his birth, she claimed Nimrod would visit the evergreen tree and leave gifts upon it. December 25th was the birthday of Nimrod. This is the real origin of the Christmas tree.

Through her scheming and designing, Semiramis became the Babylonia "Queen of Heaven," and Nimrod, under various names, became the "divine son of heaven." Through the generations, in this idolatrius worship, Nimrod also became the false Messiah, son of Baal the Sun-god. In this false Bablyhonish system, the "Mother and Child" (Semiramis and Nimrod reborn) became chief objects of worship. This worship of "Mother and Child" spread over the world. The names varied in different countries and languages. In Egypt it was Isis and Osiris. In Asia, Cybele and Deoius. In pagan Rome, Fortuna and Jupiterpuer. Even in Greece, China, Japan, Tibet is to be found the counterpart of the Madonna, long before the birth of Christ. The Lord God of Israel made reference to the worshiping and sacrificing to the "Queen of Heaven" in Jeremiah.

Jeremiah 7:18 The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead their dough, to make cakes to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto other gods, that they may provoke me to anger.

The bible record of the birth of Jesus doesn't give a date for his birth. Even Herod, the King of Judea, didn't know the date of Jesus birth; so how can we know it? The wise men (maybe 2 or 300), the bible didn't give a number, found the young child (not infant) in the house (not the manger). Well, so much for that fairy tale.

Let's look at some of the absurd things applied to the day that man has set for the birthday of the Son of God, Jesus the Christ, our Savior. Santa Clause, Ole Saint Nick, that jolly old fat man that lives in the North Pole, runs a workshop with Elves (little people) and ride on a sleigh pulled by flying reindeer. He is reported to deliver gifts to all good children around the world on Christmas, beginning at midnight and being done before morning. Entering houses by landing his sleigh on the rooftops and descending down the chimney with his bag of toys on his back. Once in the house, he puts the toys around the Christmas tree, eats the cookies and drinks the milk that is left for him before going to the next house. Sometimes taking time to get a kiss from mommy. Well, according to history, Saint Nicholas, who they portray Santa Clause, or Ole Saint Nick after, was a 4th century Bishop of Myra, which is located in Asia Minor , on the southwestern coast of the Mediterranean Sea.

A long way away from the North Pole! Also, according to Webster student dictionary, the definition for Nick, "The Devil" usually Old Nick. Now, is it possible to travel around the world in less than 24 hours stopping at every house? Reindeers don't fly; Christmas takes place in winter, so there's fire in the fireplaces to keep the house warm. What do you think would happen to a fat man trying to come down a chimney with a bag of toys on his back with a fire in the fireplace? If it's suppose to be Jesus birthday; why do we have to buy each other presents and what do we give him? A day filled with drinking, resulting in drunkenness, a day with a lot of fornication and adultery taking place. A day filled with lies pertaining to him. And what do a decorated tree, mistletoe, Yule logs, fire and lights have to do with Jesus?

Well my friend, the first part of you post came from Garner Ted Armstrong. His father said the same thing in his famous book on Christmas. You posted almost word for word from it. Like you said, Christ's birth isn't in the bible, and none this is either. Ted Armstrong came up with it. The Jeremiah 7:18 scripture is true, tho', God is telling Jeremiah not to pray for Israel, they have a one ticket to Babylon, As far a Santa, It was a marketing push from Bloomingdale's after the famous poem, "the night before Christmas" was read widely. Our Parents fell for it, big time, even today the kids still do it. But Santa is slowly fading away. Just a cartoon character now.

 

[Rockerduck]

Another Christmas nugget, in the 1800's in the Victorian age. People told ghost stories on Christmas eve. That's right. Listen to a Christmas song called " It's the most wonderful time of the year". This is the lyric -
There'll be parties for hosting
Marshmallows for toasting
And caroling out in the snow
There'll be scary ghost stories
And tales of the glories of Christmases long, long ago

Let's not forget Ebenezer Scrooge in the Christmas Carol play/movie. Yep, he was visited by the ghosts of Christmas.