Past The Exuberance of Victory: Assessing MAGA's enemies

[Aunty Jane]

Ridiculous!!

We fundamentally disagree. Hence, your refusal to address the OP, enemies of MAGA. You’ve made yourself irrelevant. Go be irrelevant in todays wars.

Have you heard of community responsibility Wrangler? If you read about Israel’s history, you will see that when the nation was led astray by corrupt leaders, the faithful suffered along with the unfaithful. When Israel was conquered by Babylon and taken into exile far away from their homeland, the faithful ones like Daniel and his companions remained faithful to God even when the bulk of the Israelites compromised with the Babylonians. It shows that what the majority do, holds no sway with God.

When apostasy was foretold for the Christian faith, it was “already at work” towards the end of the first century. The apostles were acting as a restraint until the last words of the Christian Scriptures were penned by the apostle John…..his Revelation, which was pictorial for our day (the time of the end) and his last three letters. Upon his death, the restraint was removed and the apostasy grew rapidly resulting in the Roman takeover of the church, and it’s present state of corruption….in its many manifestations known today collectively as Christendom.

2 Thess 2
“Let no one deceive you in any way, for that day will not come unless the rebellion [apostasy] comes first and the lawless one is revealed, the one destined for destruction. . . . .And you know what is now restraining him, so that he may be revealed when his time comes. . . . .For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work, but only until the one who now restrains it is removed. . . . .The coming of the lawless one is apparent in the working of Satan, who uses all power, signs, lying wonders, and every kind of wicked deception for those who are perishing because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion, leading them to believe what is false, so that all who have not believed the truth but took pleasure in unrighteousness will be condemned.” (NRSVUE)

The majority in Christendom support their nation’s politics and any resulting bloodshed is justified in their eyes….but not to God or his son, who told us to be “peacemakers” and not to meddle in this world’s affairs.

The devil rules this world, (1 John 5:19) so no matter who you vote for, the devil is the only one who has candidates in government. (Luke 4:5-7) Propaganda serves these candidates well because politicians rarely carry out what they promise…especially in a so-called democracy. The system has ways to sabotage the opposition, no matter who is in power. It’s the power behind the power you have to worry about, because there are no good guys…..there is only the lesser of two evils in a two party system. It’s up for grabs who is the better pretender. Australia is on the same treadmill…..red or blue…blue or red…no one can do what only God’s Kingdom can…..but some will pretend that they can bring in God’s kingdom on their own….

No power corrupts like absolute power….

I’d rather be irrelevant in this world, than irrelevant to God when he demands an accounting about how we spent our time. Whose interests have we served?

 

[Aunty Jane]

You would obviously agree that to render unto Caesar that which is his, and render unto God that which is His, is a spiritual truth to be honoured. The problem the church has these days is in discerning what actually belongs to each camp. Also, I believe there were many genuine Christians being led by their conscience to vote for Trump, thus giving to Caesar his due. They, while believing it their God given duty to do so, did not go so far as to align that duty with the idea that Trump is God's anointed servant and the saviour of the American Church. Nevertheless, they voted for someone they believed would better promote freedom to exercise their religious duty in rendering to God that which is God's. Any sane, sensible, observant Christian would have recognised the attacks that Satan, through the political, educational, legal and media apparatus, had made against family and the laws, and the people of God. Those voters, at least many of them, would have also recognised that only God can change hearts and minds, and that the voting for Trump cannot do that work. But it can do work in as much as Caesar is given authority and power to bring common sense back into American society, just as we would hope Caesar can do in Australia. Where I would draw the line, is not in refusing to give Caesar his due as you espouse, but in refusing to use Caesar or allow Caesar to give the church power which is outside of his perview. That is my greatest fear as far as the current American situation stands. That America would create an image to the medieval church/ state union as per the prophecy of Revelation 13. An image to the Catholic beast. That people voted for Trump doesn't bother me. What bothers me is the present relationship between church and state. The amalgamation between Caesar and God is purely a Roman Catholic concept, totally contradictory to the intents and beliefs of those founding fathers who wrote the constitution based on protestant principles that repudiated the Catholic mindset and dogmas of the dark ages.

If Jesus told us to be “NO PART“ of the world under satan’s control, (1 John 5:19) then voting in any candidate or party is a vote for satan, not Jesus, who said his kingdom is not from this source (John 18:36)…..not from this world….nothing whatever to do with it.

Satan actually admitted that world rulership had been delivered to him, and that he could give it to whomever he wished…..what is that telling us? (Luke 4:5-7) Jesus did not deny it.

When Jesus said to ‘give Caesar the things that are Caesar’s’, he was speaking about taxes and the things that Caesar has a right to demand from his subjects.…within limits set by God.
So what were the things that a Christian needed to ‘give to God’? Their exclusive devotion and loyalty to the King of the only government that will do what it promises….God’s Kingdom.

If we have our citizenship in the Kingdom of God, then we cannot have a foot in both camps. God has given satan what he asked for, rulership of the fallen human race…..but not indefinitely. His time is almost up.

 

[Wrangler]

Have you heard of community responsibility Wrangler?

What does this have to do with the enemies of MAGA? I find your position, refusal to deal with the OP utterly absurd. I suppose that is the effect one one fully indoctrinated in foolishness.

The majority in Christendom support their nation’s politics and any resulting bloodshed is justified in their eyes….but not to God or his son, who told us to be “peacemakers” and not to meddle in this world’s affairs.

You promote lies and contradictions. Being a peacemaker is meddling in this world's affairs! But Jesus did not tell us to be peacemakers but rather peacemakers are blessed. Do you hear that? We are not cursed as though it were a sin, we are blessed for meddling in this world's affairs and God also loves justice. As President George W Bush said, we will bring evil doers to justice or we will bring justice to evil doers, i.e., captured as a criminal or killed via war. Scripture tells us
2 Corinthians 6:14-15 (CEV)
Can someone who is good get along with someone who is evil? Are light and darkness the same? 15 Is Christ a friend of Satan?[a] Can people who follow the Lord have anything in common with those who don't?

Do you get that? We cannot get along with someone who is evil. War is the ultimate manifestation of not getting along! Jesus did not come to bring peace - and we are to follow Jesus! If we were not to meddle in this world's affairs, Jesus would not have come, healed people, preached or gave us the Great Commission. Here Moses stated war as a fact of history, and a means God uses to achieve his political ends, not condemning it and we are made in God's image, warriors, like him. (I noticed you just ignored the fact that YHWH is a warrior and we are made in his image. Odd).
Deuteronomy 3:3, 6
We struck him down until not a single survivor was left ... utterly destroying men, women and children.

 

[TheHC]

I know you want the superior culture to apologize for their superiority. That’s just plain stupid!

It is not about race - no matter how much you try. Renaissance Man. Stone Age Man. Not equal in development.

Grief, what a repugnant view!

Sounds like you would have supported Hitler, had you been born in Germany a hundred+ years ago. (Would you have been executed at Nuremberg? I wonder…)

“Not equal in development”… who cares?! They’re equal!

Acts 10:34,35.

We’re all cousins.

 

[Wrangler]

“Not equal in development”… who cares?! They’re equal!

On display THE PERVERSION OF EQUALITY. Sure, I agree that except for all the ways that various cultures are different, they are equal. LOL

To clarify, I am not taking about individuals but cultures.

Grief, what a repugnant view!

Sounds like you would have supported Hitler

Godwin's law strikes again. No, I would not have supported an ideology that takes away rights of his own citizens. However, it is ironic. that you invoke this reference. Do you think the Stone Age people of the New World would have been able to stand up to Hitler?

The obvious answer is no. And this is the price civilization must pay; it must have more violent capability and the willingness to use it against the barbarian. But you are doing far worse; you are supposing the civilized must limit themselves to the barbarian due to some misguided notion of equality.

Regarding your claim that they are (individually) equal; it is for this reason that the great Christopher Columbus baptized the savages into the Christian faith. He is credited with bringing Christianity to half the globe. You? Are your accomplishments equal?

 

[Wrangler]

Grief, what a repugnant view!

Just because one follows Christ does not make it wrong to:

1. Understand economics.
2. Benefit from knowledge of economics.

 

[Aunty Jane]

What does this have to do with the enemies of MAGA? I find your position, refusal to deal with the OP utterly absurd. I suppose that is the effect one one fully indoctrinated in foolishness.

One can be a hero in their own eyes but utter fools to God….thankfully he knows the difference.

You promote lies and contradictions. Being a peacemaker is meddling in this world's affairs! But Jesus did not tell us to be peacemakers but rather peacemakers are blessed. Do you hear that? We are not cursed as though it were a sin, we are blessed for meddling in this world's affairs and God also loves justice. As President George W Bush said, we will bring evil doers to justice or we will bring justice to evil doers, i.e., captured as a criminal or killed via war.

You are quoting George W Bush now???? All these paragons of virtue that you seem to idolize are not seen that way outside of the US I’m afraid. Only those completely politically indoctrinated could make such a statement in quoting such a man.…especially when his words are so incredibly devoid of any reality experienced by the means you promote. Where is justice in this world? Do you find it in the US…or in any other nation that simply incarcerates its criminals in a breeding ground for more criminality….or fights wars that nobody really wins in the big picture?…..big noting themselves because of their superior weaponry (readily on sale to any nation that wants to buy them)…..you seem to have no concept of what is the reality, rather than the pipe dream that never materializes.

I also think you are conflating the terms “peacemaker” with “peacekeeper”…..the main difference being that one has weapons to force peace (only the absence of conflict through fear of said weapons) whist the other has God’s means to create real peace, which is the absence of conflict among his collective people in their hearts, that translates over into peaceful conduct. No carnal weapons needed.…conquering evil with good, not more evil. (Rom 12:17-21) You never got the memo.
You ignore so much Scripture to promote your very worldly position. No one can tell you…but Christ will.

Scripture tells us
2 Corinthians 6:14-15 (CEV)
Can someone who is good get along with someone who is evil? Are light and darkness the same? 15 Is Christ a friend of Satan?[a] Can people who follow the Lord have anything in common with those who don't?

Do you get that? We cannot get along with someone who is evil. War is the ultimate manifestation of not getting along! Jesus did not come to bring peace - and we are to follow Jesus! If we were not to meddle in this world's affairs, Jesus would not have come, healed people, preached or gave us the Great Commission. Here Moses stated war as a fact of history, and a means God uses to achieve his political ends, not condemning it and we are made in God's image, warriors, like him. (I noticed you just ignored the fact that YHWH is a warrior and we are made in his image. Odd).

You refer to Old Testament stuff, as if Christians are under the same rules as ancient Israel. The one thing you continually forget or ignore, is the fact that Israel only ever fought wars in defense of their God given land….God sanctioned that warfare only for that reason. So when Israel was taken by the Babylonians as a punishment for their sins, the Promised Land was no longer sacred to God because from that point in history, gentiles held dominion over Israel’s territory. The Gentile Times spoken of by Daniel reinforced the truth that God only sanctions wars that are directly connected to the land he promised to his people, but they broke the contract and suffered his rejection. He kept them in existence in their land until they produced his Messiah as he promised…but when they murdered his son, he cast them off forever. (Matt 23:37-39)

The US support for Israel is entirely selfish, imagining that they are supporting God’s people, but Israel despises the worship of its allies. They do not have God’s backing because they have sought alliances with foreign nations, not relying on their God to save them as they did in times past. When they sought such alliances in the past, God allowed their enemies to defeat them.

What are we seeing now in “the unholy land”? Bloodshed….and the death of innocents….Abrahamics fighting one another over a land that God has long abandoned…..this bloodshed is not sanctioned by God any more than so called “Christians“ taking up arms is appropriate for a peacemaker. We are told to be no part of this world, so all who have blood on their hands will merit God’s disfavor. (Isa 1:15)

Deuteronomy 3:3, 6
We struck him down until not a single survivor was left ... utterly destroying men, women and children.

See…you have to resort to ancient Israel to justify your position…..those times are well and truly over. The Christian Era is one of peace, not war. God’s sanction is what is missing in all worldly conflicts, but patriotic justification dismantles Bible truth in those who want vengeance immediately. (Rom 12:19)

You will find out soon enough that no Christian can resort to bloodshed for any reason. Think back to the Christian martyrs and ask yourself why they chose death rather than compromise….all that was needed to save their lives was a pinch of intense on the alter as an act of worship to the Empreor and they could walk free…..but they chose to be torn apart by lions in the Roman arena, rather than break God’s law. We are in the arena again….are you giving the Emperor an aleagence that belongs only to God?

 

[Wrangler]

All these paragons of virtue that you seem to idolize are not seen that way outside of the US

Don’t care.

The beauty of American exceptionalism is that we do not aspire to be like the rest of the world or liked by the rest of the world. This is a Christian mindset. And I’m disappointed that you resort to such an appeal of worldly favor.

 

[Rockerduck]

When a wicked ruler rises up, the good people will hide from them. Righteousness is increased right now.

Proverbs 28:28 - When the wicked arise, men hide themselves;
But when they perish, the righteous increase.

 

[Wrangler]

You refer to Old Testament stuff

In response to me citing 2 Corinthians 6:14-15. Nice!

 

[Wrangler]

I also think you are conflating the terms “peacemaker” with “peacekeeper”…..the main difference being that one has weapons to force peace (only the absence of conflict through fear of said weapons) whist the other has God’s means to create real peace

PUL-EASE. Nirvana fallacy.

Better to have the absence of conflict through fear of said weapons that ongoing violence!

Honestly, it is hilarious how you keep doubling down on these overly spiritualized tropes as a means to distract from Oklahoma decided to improve their public education system by including Bible Study in the curriculum. Revealing that you only got negative things to say about more people learning about the Bible.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Regarding your claim that they are (individually) equal; it is for this reason that the great Christopher Columbus baptized the savages into the Christian faith. He is credited with bringing Christianity to half the globe. You? Are your accomplishments equal?

Are you serious? What “Christian faith” existed in the days of “the great Cristopher Columbus”? He was Italian and so a product of the Roman Catholic Church….if you think that was true “Christianity”, rather than the “weeds” of Jesus parable, then I have land at the South Pole to sell you really cheap.

”He baptized the savages”???…and that forced baptism at the point of a sword was the stamp of genuine Christianity? You are digging yourself into a very deep hole right now. He did not bring “Christianity” to half the globe….he forced them into Roman Catholicism through fear. Not the same at all…..nothing like the way Christ taught, but you show little interest in that.

Have you never explored the real history of Columbus in the destructive side of his conquests, which include the slave trade and the transmission of diseases to indigenous populations of the Caribbean and the Americas. His legendary status in the light of such information reveals a man who was deeply flawed. A man with notable abilities as a navigator, but not the hero he is painted in history. He hoped to rise from his humble beginnings and to accumulate wealth for his family and to join the nobility of Spain.
In an alliance with the papacy, there was hope to take the lead in the “Christian“ war against the infidel…..(Info from Britannica)
I see that you don’t like history when told more correctly from the other side. There are two sides to every story….do you understand what propaganda is? Edited history is all part of that story, fed to people like you who accept it all without question. Your trust is misplaced.

Christendom relished the idea of defeating the enemy in the so called “Crusades”….but God was absent in those conflicts. The three Abrahamic faiths still fight over the “holy land”, now soaked in blood. God left a long time ago.

So please tell me how this hero of yours was anything more than a puppet for the bloodthirsty Catholic monarchs…?

In response to me citing 2 Corinthians 6:14-15. Nice!

I believe it was you who mentioned Moses…and I quote….

“Here Moses stated war as a fact of history, and a means God uses to achieve his political ends, not condemning it and we are made in God's image, warriors, like him. (I noticed you just ignored the fact that YHWH is a warrior and we are made in his image. Odd).
Deuteronomy 3:3, 6
We struck him down until not a single survivor was left ... utterly destroying men, women and children.”

Like I said….Old Testament stuff used to justify ignoring New Testament teachings. It doesn’t work.

Better to have the absence of conflict through fear of said weapons that ongoing violence!

That is not what Jesus taught at all…..the world will do what the world will do….we are to be NO PART of it….
You just don’t get it, do you? We are not to interfere….it’s not our place. God is in control, so nothing happens that he cannot take care of.

Honestly, it is hilarious how you keep doubling down on these overly spiritualized tropes as a means to distract from Oklahoma decided to improve their public education system by including Bible Study in the curriculum. Revealing that you only got negative things to say about more people learning about the Bible.

Bringing the Bible into schools will create a backlash because no one these days really lives the Bible’s moral code. It’s been too long……just in divorce and remarriage, how many remain true to Christ’s teachings (Matt 19:9)…..how many live together without being married?……fornication and adultery were punishable by death in Israel….are they less important to God now?……like everything else, it’s easier to ignore these inconvenient things and pretend it doesn’t matter.

God is not concerned with the enemies of MAGA….he is more interested in those who make themselves enemies of God by their involvement with the world. (James 4:4)

 

[Wrangler]

Are you serious? What “Christian faith” existed in the days of “the great Cristopher Columbus”?

Yes, I am deadly serious. That you don’t know what Christian faith existed in the days of “the great Christopher Columbus” tells the story.

It’s one thing to not agree with an alternate world view. It’s another thing to be oblivious to its existence.

 

[Wrangler]

He did not bring “Christianity” to half the globe….he forced them into Roman Catholicism through fear.

And you criticize the means as a way to condemn the ends. Not all were forced. Proof is how half a Millenia later, most of the New World is made up of Christian nations.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Yes, I am deadly serious. That you don’t know what Christian faith existed in the days of “the great Christopher Columbus” tells the story.

Tell me how much the church that Columbus promoted has changed since it’s inception in the third century? It was very much a “Roman” church. It’s adopted doctrines remain largely the same to this day…..except that it’s OK to eat meat on Fridays now, since the 1960’s I believe… (heaven help those in hell who did so before they decided it was OK)
And “limbo” has been relegated to the back burner now because there is no real Scriptural reason to believe that God would even think of such a place for unbaptized people or babies….which brings us to the act of baptism…..not something to be forced or coerced. The act itself is meaningless unless the person chose it of their own free will after learning the truth from God’s word.…like dunking donuts.…it’s meaning is lost on those who see only the dunking, which is symbolic.

t’s one thing to not agree with an alternate world view. It’s another thing to be oblivious to its existence.

The parable of the “wheat and the weeds” comes into its own with the institution of the Roman Catholic Church. Hundreds of years of apostasy contributed to its inception and adoption as “the state religion” of the Empire in the fourth century. The Roman church retained much of its pagan beliefs because it was a fusion of pagan Roman sun worship and a very weakened Christian faith. They retained their favorite celebrations, but just changed the name to accommodate the Christians. With a mandate from the Emperor, there was barely a whimper of protest.

I am always surprised by your ignorance about church history Wrangler. How did you come by your beliefs?
Who taught you your “Christianity”?

And you criticize the means as a way to condemn the ends. Not all were forced. Proof is how half a Millenia later, most of the New World is made up of Christian nations.

There is no such thing as a “Christian“ nation. The nations of the world are all run by the devil’s representatives, whether they acknowledge it or not. 1 John 5:19 leaves no part of the world exempt from that statement. Tell me please what nation on earth is run by incorruptible people? Power corrupts humans…..it always has, which is why we are not to have power over one another. Christianity had shepherds, not masters. It was very different in operation to the old Jewish system.

Political power is one of the most corrupting of all, but religious power depended on something deeper in humans…..in the spiritual person was the propensity to control them from within.

Free will was gifted to us, but in its abuse, free will was overpowered by those with a stronger will, so that it now fails to exist for many in the world. Imperialism in any nation is nothing to brag about….it’s the devil dividing us to create conflict….something he relishes….because it leads to violence, bloodshed and many forms of immorality, revealing his dominant characteristics. (Refer back to the days of Noah. Matt 24:37-39)

Look at the state of the world and see who is running this show. People can now be entertained with extreme violence and immorality in the comfort of their own homes……the more violent or immoral, the better they like it.
This world is in its death throes…..the devil’s time is almost up…where will Jesus find us when he comes as judge?…..Separate from the world?……Or up to our necks in it?

 

[Wrangler]

There is no such thing as a “Christian“ nation.

Again, you show your ignorance. You are ignoring reality to fit your doctrine.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Again, you show your ignorance. You are ignoring reality to fit your doctrine.

Your reality shows where you put your trust…..someone is fudging the truth to maintain their patriotism…..
One of us is trying to keep a foot in two incompatible camps…..I know where my feet are. Where are yours?

 

[TheHC]

On display THE PERVERSION OF EQUALITY.

???

Sure, I agree that except for all the ways that various cultures are different, they are equal.

Good. I apparently misunderstood, I apologize.

To clarify, I am not taking about individuals but cultures.

OK. But a culture is just a group of individuals.

No, I would not have supported an ideology that takes away rights of his own citizens.

Ok, but just one’s own citizens? What about foreigners? Are they all equal?

However, it is ironic. that you invoke this reference. Do you think the Stone Age people of the New World would have been able to stand up to Hitler?

The obvious answer is no.

In their own power, no.
But if they had Jehovah God’s backing? Oh, yeah!
But how does one (or a group) get His backing? By being disobedient? No; it requires obedience to Jehovah God, to gain His support.

And this is the price civilization must pay; it must have more violent capability and the willingness to use it against the barbarian.

And who judges who is a barbarian? I’d say the barbarians are all those who put themselves over others. Even if it’s only by thinking it.

But you are doing far worse; you are supposing the civilized must limit themselves to the barbarian due to some misguided notion of equality.

‘Some notion of equality’?

It’s about loyalty, its about obedience to God, by listening to His Son.

Regarding your claim that they are (individually) equal; it is for this reason that the great Christopher Columbus baptized the savages into the Christian faith. He is credited with bringing Christianity to half the globe.

Is that what they wanted?

So then, you condone forced conversion?

That’s the problem…. You can’t force it on people.
That was no Christlike example.

If it’s not Christlike, and not following the counsel of the Apostles….it’s not Christianity!

You? Are your accomplishments equal?

I hope not.