Omnist Christianity and the elohim.

[Brakelite]

That's how I see it as well. Rather than straight up say he rejects Scripture, he invents personal interpretation. Clearly, he is a Leftist at heart, where words can expand and contract to mean whatever you want them to mean. @Skovand, how do you interpret these verses in the world view of many gods in this world?

Exodus 3:15​

God also said to Moses, “Say this to the children of Israel: ‘Yahweh, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.’ This is my name forever, and this is how I am to be remembered for generation after generation.​

​

Isaiah 45:6​

6 so that they may know, from the rising of the sun

and from the west, that there is no one besides me;​

I am the LORD, and there is no other.​

​

Joel 2:27 (REV)​

I am Yahweh your God, and there is no other​

Mmm. He said He believes scripture, but just not the way we do. So he believes in evolution, would like to know what he makes of the following...
“1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; 3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high; 4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they. 5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son? 6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him. 7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire. 8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. 9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows. 10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands: 11 They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment; 12 And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail. 13 But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool? 14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation? ”
Hebrews 1:1-14 KJV

Unfeigned Bible

Unfeigned Bible

www.unfeignedbible.app

 

[Skovand]

Mmm. He said He believes scripture, but just not the way we do. So he believes in evolution, would like to know what he makes of the following...
“1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; 3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high; 4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they. 5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son? 6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him. 7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire. 8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. 9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows. 10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands: 11 They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment; 12 And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail. 13 But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool? 14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation? ”
Hebrews 1:1-14 KJV

Unfeigned Bible

Unfeigned Bible

www.unfeignedbible.app

I would say what would that have to do with anything to be honest? If you want to learn more about Christianity and why so many accepts evolution, besides the fact it’s built off of thousands of facts, but how do we as Christians not find issues with evolution there is a forum called Biologos. The overwhelming majority there accepts evolution and biblical scholarship. There are several there who can engage with you in that conversation.

God's Word, God's World - BioLogos

Are science and religion at war? Many people today believe they are in conflict. BioLogos exists to show that you don’t have to choose between modern science and biblical faith.

biologos.org

But as far as this particular thread goes it’s not related to evolution and ancient cosmology really.

 

[amadeus]

And don’t forget. Everything you believe in is nothing more than your interpretation of the Bible as well. It’s all “theory” as well.

It is interpretation or theory in a measure for each believer until and if one has moved from a "through a glass darkly" to a "face to face" vision, What is it that we "see"?

Pr 29:18

Where there is no vision, the people perish:

Ps 13:1

How long wilt thou forget me, O LORD? for ever? how long wilt thou hide thy face from me?

Ps 27:8

When thou saidst, Seek ye my face; my heart said unto thee, Thy face, LORD, will I seek.

1co 13:12

For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

1jo 3:2

Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

 

[talons]

Nowadays most forms of Christianity has dropped differences between enochian angels, fallen angels, demons, and spirits and just labeled them all fallen angels.

There are angels that do God's bidding and there are angels that are under command of satan but that does not mean God can't still use them . Prince of Persia in the book of Daniel is definitely an angel under satan's command .
Demons are earthbound and I see no reason say satan's angels and demons are the same entities . Angels are able to manifest their own body but for demons to have a body need to possess another living body .

Definitely could be.

Was the "prince of Persia " under the command of satan , yes . I see it no other way . You should have no reason to hedge your bet here .

 

[Brakelite]

I would say what would that have to do with anything to be honest? If you want to learn more about Christianity and why so many accepts evolution, besides the fact it’s built off of thousands of facts, but how do we as Christians not find issues with evolution there is a forum called Biologos. The overwhelming majority there accepts evolution and biblical scholarship. There are several there who can engage with you in that conversation.

God's Word, God's World - BioLogos

Are science and religion at war? Many people today believe they are in conflict. BioLogos exists to show that you don’t have to choose between modern science and biblical faith.

biologos.org

But as far as this particular thread goes it’s not related to evolution and ancient cosmology really.

As I said, many believe in evolution because they don't believe in scripture.
God's own words... not those of a prophet, a translation, a redacted interpretation, or bible critic, but the hand written word of God Himself utterly contradicts any evolution theory...

“8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: 10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: 11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it. ”
Exodus 20:8-11 KJV

Unfeigned Bible

Unfeigned Bible

www.unfeignedbible.app

 

[Skovand]

There are angels that do God's bidding and there are angels that are under command of satan but that does not mean God can't still use them . Prince of Persia in the book of Daniel is definitely an angel under satan's command .
Demons are earthbound and I see no reason say satan's angels and demons are the same entities . Angels are able to manifest their own body but for demons to have a body need to possess another living body .

Was the "prince of Persia " under the command of satan , yes . I see it no other way . You should have no reason to hedge your bet here .

One of th

As I said, many believe in evolution because they don't believe in scripture.
God's own words... not those of a prophet, a translation, a redacted interpretation, or bible critic, but the hand written word of God Himself utterly contradicts any evolution theory...

“8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: 10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: 11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it. ”
Exodus 20:8-11 KJV

Unfeigned Bible

Unfeigned Bible

www.unfeignedbible.app

well I believe in evolution and I believe in gods word. The difference between us is not if we believe in the power of God or if we believe that the Bible is the words of God. The difference is that I believe that the words of God in genesis 1-11 is mythological. I don’t think it’s literal. I don’t even think it’s systematic. I think it’s a reimagining of the epic of Gilgamesh. The ancient near eastern tribes Mesopotamia was heavily influenced by each others. I don’t think there was flying talking snakes, fire breathing multi headed sea serpents or giants that were half angels and half human or whatever. I think it’s all clearly god using myths and hyperbole. So I believe in the word of God just as much as you. You don’t think it’s metaphorical. You think God was using a historical narrative filled with scientific truths. You apply what is known as a literalistic and concordistic lens. I apply what is known as a metaphorical and accomondationist lens. Your interpretation demands that science matches it and my interpretation has nothing to do with science so therefore science can exist with it in perfect harmony. I don’t think that way because it’s easier. I think that way because it’s where the Holy Spirit has led me.

 

[Brakelite]

One of th

well I believe in evolution and I believe in gods word. The difference between us is not if we believe in the power of God or if we believe that the Bible is the words of God. The difference is that I believe that the words of God in genesis 1-11 is mythological. I don’t think it’s literal. I don’t even think it’s systematic. I think it’s a reimagining of the epic of Gilgamesh. The ancient near eastern tribes Mesopotamia was heavily influenced by each others. I don’t think there was flying talking snakes, fire breathing multi headed sea serpents or giants that were half angels and half human or whatever. I think it’s all clearly god using myths and hyperbole. So I believe in the word of God just as much as you. You don’t think it’s metaphorical. You think God was using a historical narrative filled with scientific truths. You apply what is known as a literalistic and concordistic lens. I apply what is known as a metaphorical and accomondationist lens. Your interpretation demands that science matches it and my interpretation has nothing to do with science so therefore science can exist with it in perfect harmony. I don’t think that way because it’s easier. I think that way because it’s where the Holy Spirit has led me.

I accept metaphor when the text demands it. I accept literal unless it is clear and obvious it must be metaphor. Your description above is a mixture of both, not knowing how to discern between the two paradigms. I accept a literal 6 day creation because God personally wrote with His own finger on stone tablets that such was the case.
“8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: 10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: 11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it. ”
Exodus 20:8-11

And God cannot lie. Your perception of who God is and what He is like is founded on your own personal sinful biases. You have created a God after your own image and likeness, which is the reverse of truth. You don't believe in scripture despite your claims to the contrary. You look to philosophy, myths, and man's carnal fallen thinking to understand spiritual truth and reality.

 

[Skovand]

I accept metaphor when the text demands it. I accept literal unless it is clear and obvious it must be metaphor. Your description above is a mixture of both, not knowing how to discern between the two paradigms. I accept a literal 6 day creation because God personally wrote with His own finger on stone tablets that such was the case.
“8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: 10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: 11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it. ”
Exodus 20:8-11

And God cannot lie. Your perception of who God is and what He is like is founded on your own personal sinful biases. You have created a God after your own image and likeness, which is the reverse of truth. You don't believe in scripture despite your claims to the contrary. You look to philosophy, myths, and man's carnal fallen thinking to understand spiritual truth and reality.

Actually all I do is look at the Bible and understand that it was written to ancient Jews, not modern Americans. Again, and I know you don’t understand this. There are two separate creation accounts in Genesis. 1 and 2 has things in different orders. 1 and 2 is written in different styles, using different vocabulary and even different words for god. Someone took these two different traditions and seamed them together. We can also see that with the genealogies. We can look to things like the work by Tim Mackie on Toho Wabohu, which I’m sure you are not even aware of. J Richard Middleton does a fantastic job with showing why the genealogies can’t possibly be literal. It’s just not hard to see it’s not literal.

A god floated above a dark and watery formless place ( never says what day water was created it just was already there ). First he made light before he even made the sun and stars. He made trees before he made animals but we know angiosperms only developed a little while ago. One of the animals created is a fire breathing multi headed sea dragon. He makes a golem and then brings it to life. He cuts the golem in half and one half because a woman. The word is not rib. A flying talking snake, and yes in Hebrew it’s a winged snake, not a snake with legs like art shows, tricks the woman into eating magical fruit that grants wisdom. God then comes down from the heavens…. Comes down…. Because the Bible also teaches a flat earth with a dome over it, with heaven above that and god floated down from the heavens. He kicks them out so that they can’t eat another magical tree that grants life. A brother kills his brother with a spear ( and yes in Hebrew we can tell it’s a spear for two reasons ), and the blood screams from the ground. A floating fiery sword protests the gate there. Flying supernatural beings have sex with women and they birth giants….. just everything is clearly not meant to be read literal.

 

[Brakelite]

Actually all I do is look at the Bible and understand that it was written to ancient Jews, not modern Americans. Again, and I know you don’t understand this. There are two separate creation accounts in Genesis. 1 and 2 has things in different orders. 1 and 2 is written in different styles, using different vocabulary and even different words for god. Someone took these two different traditions and seamed them together. We can also see that with the genealogies. We can look to things like the work by Tim Mackie on Toho Wabohu, which I’m sure you are not even aware of. J Richard Middleton does a fantastic job with showing why the genealogies can’t possibly be literal. It’s just not hard to see it’s not literal.

A god floated above a dark and watery formless place ( never says what day water was created it just was already there ). First he made light before he even made the sun and stars. He made trees before he made animals but we know angiosperms only developed a little while ago. One of the animals created is a fire breathing multi headed sea dragon. He makes a golem and then brings it to life. He cuts the golem in half and one half because a woman. The word is not rib. A flying talking snake, and yes in Hebrew it’s a winged snake, not a snake with legs like art shows, tricks the woman into eating magical fruit that grants wisdom. God then comes down from the heavens…. Comes down…. Because the Bible also teaches a flat earth with a dome over it, with heaven above that and god floated down from the heavens. He kicks them out so that they can’t eat another magical tree that grants life. A brother kills his brother with a spear ( and yes in Hebrew we can tell it’s a spear for two reasons ), and the blood screams from the ground. A floating fiery sword protests the gate there. Flying supernatural beings have sex with women and they birth giants….. just everything is clearly not meant to be read literal.

Yep. Regardless of how much of that prejudiced dissertation I believe to be either literal or metaphorical, the predominant message you are giving is that you do not believe in scripture, despite your claims to the contrary. You claim to be a follower of Jesus, yet don't believe what He revealed concerning Himself. Nor do you believe what God wrote with His own finger on stone, which I cannot help but notice that you avoid any reference to. And do I know those people you cite as experts in biblical criticism? Nope. But I'm sure that they, just like you, me, and everyone else on this planet, are sinners in need of the grace, mercy, and ransom paid through the blood of the Lamb of God, His Son Jesus.

 

[Skovand]

Yep. Regardless of how much of that prejudiced dissertation I believe to be either literal or metaphorical, the predominant message you are giving is that you do not believe in scripture, despite your claims to the contrary. You claim to be a follower of Jesus, yet don't believe what He revealed concerning Himself. Nor do you believe what God wrote with His own finger on stone, which I cannot help but notice that you avoid any reference to. And do I know those people you cite as experts in biblical criticism? Nope. But I'm sure that they, just like you, me, and everyone else on this planet, are sinners in need of the grace, mercy, and ransom paid through the blood of the Lamb of God, His Son Jesus.

I think what you meant is that I’m not dumb enough to believe your interpretation of something that is clearly baffling to you.

 

[Skovand]

As far the “finger rin stone”…. I did not avoid it. It’s just so dumb of an argument and I’ve responded to that same type of argument several times already. You just don’t know what I’m saying because you don’t know the Bible. You know a kids version of the Bible doing plain text reading.
So even when I answer something several times you don’t know. This whole conversation is just me trying to give you tools to better understand what you are reading. You can’t even see it. You’re so far behind the curve it’s ridiculous. I know 9th graders with 10x the grasp of science and theology. And yes in im ok with speaking to you like this. After you call me not a Christian and a liar and still think you’ve bested me with argument my patience is just done. Once you’ve looked up at the minimum accommodationist and concordism and their approaches to the Bible I’ll respond to you. Until then. Just ignoring you.

And again I can’t stress this enough. I don’t disagree with God, Jesus or the Bible, any of the Bibles. What solely disagree with you my guy. Just you. It’s crazy you think to disagree with tourists as to disagree with god. You hold yourself up to such an extreme position you actually think disagreeing with you means disagreeing with god…. Foolish. Beyond foolish.

 

[Ritajanice]

You just don’t know what I’m saying because you don’t know the Bible. You know a kids version of the Bible doing plain text reading.

Can I ask a question, do you believe there is a supernatural witness, the Holy Spirit...who can only witness the truth of Jesus?.to one’s heart/ spirit? @Skovand

Do you think you need to read a Bible to know of Jesus in one’s spirit?

 

[talons]

There are angels that do God's bidding and there are angels that are under command of satan but that does not mean God can't still use them . Prince of Persia in the book of Daniel is definitely an angel under satan's command .
Demons are earthbound and I see no reason say satan's angels and demons are the same entities . Angels are able to manifest their own body but for demons to have a body need to possess another living body .

One of th

Do you have a reply for me or no ? @Skovand

 

[Skovand]

Do you have a reply for me or no ? @Skovand

No. I’m not sure why part of your convo got copied and the reply stayed. I deleted the response several times, and it just kept showing up so I posted the response to the other person. I would refresh, I would delete the response, and then when I tried to post it would say oops. Don’t know why but it just was not disappearing.

 

[Skovand]

Can I ask a question, do you believe there is a supernatural witness, the Holy Spirit...who can only witness the truth of Jesus?.to one’s heart/ spirit? @Skovand

Do you think you need to read a Bible to know of Jesus in one’s spirit?

Yes I believe in the Holy Spirit. I just think the Holy Spirit is the power of god. I think it’s the power that reaches out to all of humanity.

No we don’t need a bible to know Jesus. For one bibles were not even really a thing until a few hundred years ago. Bibles use to be so expensive sometimes an entire town would have to save up to purchase just one because they had to all be hand copied.

I also think that Jesus is the incantation of the god and god is bigger than just one version of god like Yahweh. I don’t think indigenous tribes were cut off from God for thousands of years just because colonizers had not yet reached America. Richard Twiss and Bear Heart are two great indigenous Christians who spoke up about omnism and syncretism before and after colonialism in America.

When we look at history , in the Bible even, there are things that subtly hint at this .

So the father of the Abrahamic faiths is Abraham. Before Jews were here Abraham was here. Abrahams faith was from the land of Canaan. The Jews are mostly likely a tribe that arose within the Canaanites. Originally all of the tribes that became Jews were polytheists, who then became monolatrist when then became monotheists.

Then look at Melchizedek. He was a Canaanite priest who worshipped the god El, and Abraham saw that El was quite similar to Yahweh.

Abraham, Melchizedek, and Jesus

Explore the relationship between Abraham, Melchizedek, and Jesus in the Bible in BibleProject’s blog post: Abraham, Melchizedek, and Jesus.

bibleproject.com

We see something similar with Jethro the father in law of Moses. A Midianite priest. He is also possibly the same as Reuel the Midianite priest from the book of Jasher. Which is a book not included in the Bible even though it’s mentioned in the Bible several times. The New Testament also mentions the laws of god, which is the words of god, written on the hearts of man. Those words are summed up by Jesus as loving your neighbor which includes your enemies and loving God and Jesus says that you love god when you do things like give strangers water. So the best way to love god is to love others. However that does not mean we must be active in everyone’s life or keep them in our own.

​

 

[Ritajanice]

Thanks for sharing that, taking the time to write it all down... @Skovand .

 

[talons]

The difference is that I believe that the words of God in genesis 1-11 is mythological. I don’t think it’s literal. I don’t even think it’s systematic. I think it’s a reimagining of the epic of Gilgamesh.

I am going to have to say Jesus thought Genesis1-11 was literal , after all he quotes and talks about it .
Mark Chapter 6
6But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female.

7For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife;

8And they twain shall be one flesh: so then they are no more twain, but one flesh.

Luke Chapter 17
26And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.

27They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.

Luke Chapter 11
51From the blood of Abel unto the blood of Zacharias, which perished between the altar and the temple: verily I say unto you, It shall be required of this generation.

Comments or no ? @Skovand

 

[Skovand]

I am going to have to say Jesus thought Genesis1-11 was literal , after all he quotes and talks about it .
Mark Chapter 6
6But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female.

7For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife;

8And they twain shall be one flesh: so then they are no more twain, but one flesh.

Luke Chapter 17
26And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.

27They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.

Luke Chapter 11
51From the blood of Abel unto the blood of Zacharias, which perished between the altar and the temple: verily I say unto you, It shall be required of this generation.

Comments or no ? @Skovand

Obviously I don’t agree. Jesus was a jew and so he was using their stories. But that’s like when I refer to someone as Herculean strong. It does not mean I literally think Hercules existed. Jesus may or may not have believed in a a flat earth. But regardless if Jesus believed in a flat earth like most ancient Jewish people did does not mean it’s true.

Additionally, regardless if they believed in the cosmology showcased in Genesis does not make the genre of Genesis literal.

This is from a woman who is also with Biologos. She helps create their curriculum. She’s a good hearted and very educated professional biblical scholar who has been a very influential mentor through BL to me. Over the last ten years she’s been a great example of Christ.

https://www.asa3.org/ASA/PSCF/2019/PSCF12-19Hemphill.pdf

 

[talons]

Obviously I don’t agree. Jesus was a jew and so he was using their stories. But that’s like when I refer to someone as Herculean strong. It does not mean I literally think Hercules existed. Jesus may or may not have believed in a a flat earth. But regardless if Jesus believed in a flat earth like most ancient Jewish people did does not mean it’s true.

Additionally, regardless if they believed in the cosmology showcased in Genesis does not make the genre of Genesis literal.

This is from a woman who is also with Biologos. She helps create their curriculum. She’s a good hearted and very educated professional biblical scholar who has been a very influential mentor through BL to me. Over the last ten years she’s been a great example of Christ.

https://www.asa3.org/ASA/PSCF/2019/PSCF12-19Hemphill.pdf

I can see we don't agree . I will read the article at the link thoroughly .

While you are still talking to me , one more question . I saw where you do not believe in hell . Do you believe there are demons here with us in this earthly realm and they can possess people ?

 

[Skovand]

I can see we don't agree . I will read the article at the link thoroughly .

While you are still talking to me , one more question . I saw where you do not believe in hell . Do you believe there are demons here with us in this earthly realm and they can possess people ?

I will talk to anyone who is decent even if we strongly disagree. Even those I block, it’s normally just for a few days to stop the rampant back and forth. Then I unblock them or whatever it’s called here.

So I believe hell is the event of the body and soul being destroyed. I think it’s the second death. But I do think that death is a real death. I think we die once physically, or rather we die and don’t back back to life eventually, even if we die and shocked back into life, eventually doctors can’t bring us back. That’s the first death. The second death I believe is that we stand before God and are judged for being evil. I think those found guilty die again, and never come back. But I don’t think the wicked gets eternal life even to be tortured in the fires of hell.

As for demons I’ve not made up my mind. In the Bible, I believe the lore around demons are that they are the bodiless living spirits of the nephilim. The hybrid children of angels and women. I guess maybe in the folklore there could have been men who slept with angelic women but I lean more towards just male angels sleeping with women giving birth to giants and after those giants died, their body decayed but their spirit continued on. But I don’t think that’s real thing. I think the giants, and therefor their spirits known as demons, don’t exist.

I think it’s possible that perhaps that story was developed around man who were possessed by spirits of some sort. Like the various spirits mentioned in the Bible other than fallen angels . There is always a chance that some kernel of reality invoked the myths.

But even demons existed and were not just hyperbole for mental disorders or whatever. If there was some kind of supernatural entities that possessed humans I would think they have all died in the first century. I think revelation and so on was about the events of the second temple being destroyed, the fall of Rome and so on. I heavily influenced by cessationism of gifts that were given to the apostles or those they laid their hands on. With the apostles gone I believe the gifts of laying on of hands have ended .

So if they ever existed, now I believe that it’s God and his angels.