Omicron variant

[Taken]

You will never hear me call it the jab.

Yes, I and my whole family chose to be vaccinated and to vaccinate our children.

Okay, tnx for your reply.

 

[Taken]

We chose to be vaccinated as we have immunocompromised family members, family that has COPD and I have moderate to severe asthma.

Our choice was simple once we outweighed the pros and the cons. For us, the pros far outweighed the cons.

What in general were the pros and cons ?

 

[Brakelite]

The strategy of seeking middle ground is employed when two people, at odds with one another, attempt to understand the position of their opponent by suspending their own position long enough to hear and consider what their opponent is actually saying. One common technique among those seeking middle ground is for both party to agree on a set of facts or sources of facts on which to make an appeal to reason. Another common technique is for each party to ask leading questions and pursue a line of thinking to its ultimate conclusion.

Having a genuine interest in the welfare of others and wanting to understand them is essential in any relationship.

People take offence at someone who appears to be asking "too many questions" but that is precisely what seeking middle ground looks like. I often wonder if those who become offended at being questioned are insecure with their position and perhaps detest the thought that they were duped or made a mistake.

It isn't coincidence that today people are getting offended at questions. It means one has to be transparent. Questions inevitably reveal truth. But truth is being shut down... Anyone who challenges the narrative is shut down, shamed publicly, vilified, and everything that was once logical, decent, honorable and praiseworthy about that persons past is cast aside to be trodden underfoot. Why is that? Because the powers that be controlling the narrative want conflict. The very last thing they want is people communicating amiably and sharing experiences, truth, observations, and witnessed events. Hence one reason why lockdowns and all discouragement against speaking and sharing. Soon, you can count on it that forums such as this will be closed if they become too popular. You can't post opinions like this anymore on any of the major social media platforms without signs and notices that fact checkers have cancelled you for "missing context" etc etc and ban you. I've been banned from commenting on Microsoft news. Permanently. And I have no idea what I said. I can't even remember posting there previously.

 

[Naomanos]

What in general were the pros and cons ?

If I can remember to, I will answer this later. I have work today and my kids this weekend, so before work, I would like to spend a little time with them.

 

[Taken]

If I can remember to, I will answer this later. I have work today and my kids this weekend, so before work, I would like to spend a little time with them.

Gotcha...enjoy.

 

[Taken]

Having a genuine interest in the welfare of others and wanting to understand them is essential in any relationship.

It isn't coincidence that today people are getting offended at questions. It means one has to be transparent.

I believe the “offense” hangs on, the fact they do not know WHY they believe what they do, because they believe what they were TOLD, without themselves every ASKING WHY.

There is a little story about...a g-ma, mom, daughter...cooking supper together.
The mom gets the HAM, says to the daughter, cut the ends off the HAM and put it in this big pot.
The daughter ASKS the mom WHY cut the ends off. The mom says, because my mother did and told me to...
mimicking, but doesn’t really know WHY.
The daughter turns to the g-ma and asks HER, why did SHE cut the ends off from HAM.
The g-ma says SHE cut the end off because HER POT was too small to hold the HAM!

The mom had followed direction, made it a tradition, but really did not know WHY.
People are content to do without knowing WHY...especially IF they are “rewarded” with some little “atta boy” or “trinket”...WHY falls by the wayside.
And when challenged...they do not know WHY...so choose to be offended...
(Which mean, (in many cases)...ignore the point, and deflect to snarky responses)...

 

[JohnPaul]

The Pope said that to take the jab is an expression of love for your neighbor.
In any language, forced, mandated, coerced love is rape.

Not that I follow any Pope anymore but this Pope is evil, and was put there by the powers that be and Pope Benedict either stepped down because he wasn't going to go along with what the RCC has planned and I believe that is to accept homosexuality and all the deviancy associated with it like the LGTB's and all that other garbage, or he was forced to step down so they could elect Francis.

 

[Brakelite]

I believe the “offense” hangs on, the fact they do not know WHY they believe what they do, because they believe what they were TOLD, without themselves every ASKING WHY.

There is a little story about...a g-ma, mom, daughter...cooking supper together.
The mom gets the HAM, says to the daughter, cut the ends off the HAM and put it in this big pot.
The daughter ASKS the mom WHY cut the ends off. The mom says, because my mother did and told me to...
mimicking, but doesn’t really know WHY.
The daughter turns to the g-ma and asks HER, why did SHE cut the ends off from HAM.
The g-ma says SHE cut the end off because HER POT was too small to hold the HAM!

The mom had followed direction, made it a tradition, but really did not know WHY.
People are content to do without knowing WHY...especially IF they are “rewarded” with some little “atta boy” or “trinket”...WHY falls by the wayside.
And when challenged...they do not know WHY...so choose to be offended...
(Which mean, (in many cases)...ignore the point, and deflect to snarky responses)...

The trinkets these days are "freedoms". Rewarded with what never should have been removed in the first place. But it ain't really freedom. We all lost that centuries ago.

 

[GEN2REV]

I disagree with you. I can be all in with God and sit in the middle of things with allowing people to choose whether or not to vaccinate. I do not see the vaccines as evil. I simply don't.

I was commenting mostly on your position of taking the middle ground. Not so much about how you perceive the jabs.

So I am fine sitting in the middle. You also do not get to decide what my relationship ship with God is. I am right with God and I am saved by the blood of Jesus.

No, I don't decide. You do. And everything I posted about taking middle ground is God's Word. Not mine. If you don't like it, you don't agree with God and you don't agree, or know much about, His Word.

But take heart. You are in synch with the vast majority of Christians today. Most know almost nothing of Him and His opinions because they don't spend any time in The Word, nor do they hold those who have a firm grasp of it in high regard. Most Christians in churches today see those who know their Bibles well as Bible nerds. I can promise you God sides with the Bible nerds.

I stand by my statement, those yelling the loudest are causing their own problems.

Yes, of course. Those warning others about dangers and wrongdoing are causing the dangers and wrongdoing.

You are fully in-line with the Powers that Be in that opinion. Congratulations.

Whistleblowers are TERRORISTS!!

 

[Cassandra]

I was commenting mostly on your position of taking the middle ground. Not so much about how you perceive the jabs.
No, I don't decide. You do. And everything I posted about taking middle ground is God's Word. Not mine. If you don't like it, you don't agree with God and you don't agree, or know much about, His Word.

But take heart. You are in synch with the vast majority of Christians today. Most know almost nothing of Him and His opinions because they don't spend any time in The Word, nor do they hold those who have a firm grasp of it in high regard. Most Christians in churches today see those who know their Bibles well as Bible nerds. I can promise you God sides with the Bible nerds.

Oh, for Pete's sake! Cut it out! How do you know how well he knows his Bible? And I suppose you are one of God's elect Bible nerds?
Do you remember what Jesus said to the rich young ruler? He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou? Maybe he readest differently than you.

The biggest problem with this forum is the attack mode . You come up all six guns on anyone who expresses a different belief with respect to Corona and its variants. Some think it is a hoax as well. (Jesus said there would be pestilence) but this one is mostly a political fight.
I don't mind discussing mainline beliefs or different church doctrines, but this is has a different spirit to it. Look at the threads where this is talked about. What Spirit do you see? I see something closely toward hate spued.

 

[GEN2REV]

@Cassandra

You are way overreacting and out of line.

If you're going to butt in to a debate that is between two people, you need to read every page of the thread, and every associated comment, and THEN decide if what you have to say is even worth saying, or relevant for that matter.

You act as if I'm bullying somebody inappropriately when our exchange was a measured evolution of ideas back and forth. He wasn't under duress and was responding just fine on his own.

And if you believe this:

Do you remember what Jesus said to the rich young ruler? He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou? Maybe he readest differently than you.

... then YOU need to study up on your Bible.

The Bible says what it says and it means what it means. There is no "readest differently" and there is no private interpretation of scripture.

2 Peter 1:20

If there were, that would throw every single verse of scripture into question and the power of God's Word would carry no weight at all.

 

[Taken]

The trinkets these days are "freedoms". Rewarded with what never should have been removed in the first place. But it ain't really freedom. We all lost that centuries ago.

Freedoms fall by the way-side....B-cause IMO, of indoctrination teaching methods....
Then enter the “authorities”...gov. Schools, whatever....and announce their “PRIVILEGES”....(that they will GRANT YOU....”IF” )...you will give them ...
Every private piece of information....and perhaps also, some urine, hair lock, sperm, blood...THEN they will decide “IF” you are qualified to be STAMPED with their approval to “partake in THEIR PRIVILEGES”.
See how that works? Ignore, an individuals God given Freedom...and change it up to...Govy Granted Privileges...they give and they can take away.
“Ignore their pseudo Privileges, exercise your Liberty”.... and you become LABELED...troublemaker, conspiracist, racist, hater, eh, whatever name they pick out of their stash.

GAG!

 

[Cassandra]

I read my Bible everyday, and I don't think I overreacted. The way I think it is played is 'that if you don't read the same thing in the Bible that I do, you are not a "Bible nerd" because I am." That's what you are saying . Right, isn't it? And is everyone who is not of your denomination not a Bible nerd, because they don't see things as you do?

 

[GEN2REV]

I read my Bible everyday, and I don't think I overreacted. The way I think it is played is 'that if you don't read the same thing in the Bible that I do, you are not a "Bible nerd" because I am." That's what you are saying . Right, isn't it?

I don't understand what you mean by this. The vast majority of the Bible is very clear and easy to understand what it means. Despite that, there are myriad so-called Christians who claim "Oh, that's not what it means, though. What it REALLY means is this ..."

Would you like to present a verse from scripture that is very difficult to understand and can easily be translated multiple different ways?

And is everyone who is not of your denomination not a Bible nerd, because they don't see things as you do?

My denomination is Bible-believing Christians and they're very easy to recognize. They have a passion for God's Word and ALL His Laws and are steadfast in their defending and upholding of them.

 

[Enoch111]

...But truth is being shut down... Anyone who challenges the narrative is shut down...

Correct. Watch this: “It’s Lies Built on Top of Lies… All of These Tyrannical Measures are Nonsensical… We’re Not in a Pandemic Emergency Anymore” – Dr. Naomi Wolf Destroys the Fauci Elites on Steve Bannon’s War Room
"It's Lies Built on Top of Lies... All of These Tyrannical Measures are Nonsensical... We're Not in a Pandemic Emergency Anymore" - Dr. Naomi Wolf Destroys the Fauci Elites on Steve Bannon's War Room

Dr. Naomi Wolf is actually a liberal but not a radical Marxist/Communist/Anarchist. She has spoken out before and it is absolutely true that there never was a pandemic. It is also perfectly true that these cocktails from Hell are not vaccines. They are anything but vaccines.

 

[Enoch111]

COVID-19 A Pandemic Of Fear "Manufactured" By Authorities: Yale Epidemiologist
“Overall, I’d say that we’ve had a pandemic of fear. And fear has affected almost everybody, whereas the infection has affected relatively few,” said Risch.
COVID-19 A Pandemic Of Fear "Manufactured" By Authorities: Yale Epidemiologist | ZeroHedge

 

[Brakelite]

For those who may have missed this link on another thread...
Walter Veith & Martin Smith - Omicron, Vaccine Mandates, Liberty, Conscience & Freedom - WUP 93

 

[Cassandra]

For those who may have missed this link on another thread...
Walter Veith & Martin Smith - Omicron, Vaccine Mandates, Liberty, Conscience & Freedom - WUP 93

Although I love him, and most of his series before, he gets too out there for me. When he has to broadcast off of you tube, I dont watch. I'm more of a Stephen Bohr type stuff girl.

 

[GaryAnderson]

When the internet first started, I participated in message boards where I might engage in Christian apologetics. I bought several books including "The Baker Encyclopedia of Christian Apologetics" by Norman Geisler, and "The Case for Christ" by Lee Strobel, and others. (I also had a Doctor of Philosophy, who was also a Christian believer, help me.) In order to discuss theology and atheism with an unbeliever one needs to find middle ground. Most of our arguments began with first principles, on which almost all people can agree. For instance, most reasonable people, theist or atheist will affirm the law of non-contradiction.*

After a couple of years, I discovered a strange phenomenon that I couldn't explain at first. The middle ground was shrinking very rapidly. Long story short, as postmodernism began to take root and grow among the population, apologists like me were having a hard time finding folks that believed in first principles. For centuries, most philosophers would agree on this one self-evident fact: though we argue over what is true, we all agree that a universal, common truth, exists for us all to find. We may not agree about what is true, but we know that truth exists.

Much of what I learned about the course set by those who were leading society and culture came through dialogue with college students. What were they learning from their teachers and professors? The up and coming fad in philosophical thought was postmodernism, which affected all areas of life including architecture, fine arts, dramatic arts, college campuses, until eventually it was common thinking among the regular populous. Postmodernism, by contrast to previous areas of human thought, not only doubted whether truth could be found; it question whether universal truth actually existed. The core principle of postmodernism is the belief that "truth" is simply the consensus opinion.

When I finally realized what was happening, I began to hear the following verses ringing in my ears. "[the man of lawless is coming] in accord with the activity of Satan, with all power and signs and false wonders, and with all the deception of wickedness for those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved. For this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false, in order that they all may be judged who did not believe the truth, but took pleasure in wickedness." 2 Thessalonians 2:9-12 College-aged kids were not receiving a love of the truth. And the atheists with which I engaged would not accept the truth in order to be saved.

So I wondered if God was finally sending a deluding influence now. I kept on the look out for signs that this was happening. I wondered who this deluding influence might be and how a lack of love for the truth might manifest itself. During that time I read a lot of books and a couple of books stand out now in my thinking. "The technological society" By Jacques Ellul, and "Propaganda: the formation of men's attitudes." also by Jacques Ellul. These two books, among others, became the framework of my new perspective on the state of truth-telling in the United States and perhaps the world.

Without giving you a complete argument at this time, I identified the sources of the "deluding influence" were mainly academia, Hollywood, and popular culture. And there are two competing, reality shaping forces in play: the old guard, consisting of the typical political structures, and the "new" elites consisting of the technocrats, who want to eliminate government altogether in favor of a technical elite consisting of so-called "scientists" who think that technology and especially "technique" should be the tools of the dominant class. (China is attempting this sort of rule via mass surveillance and social credit scores.) The more technocratic, the less human; and the highest value of a technocrat is efficiency.

Among Jesus-followers, the highest values are truth, goodness, and above all, love. Among Jesus-followers, the unit of highest value is the individual person. Among the technocrats, the unit of highest value is society, especially the technological class. (I took note of the emphasis on STEM at the expense of the humanities in colleges and universities.) Over time "the Good" has changed. Whereas, in ages past, "the good" was human fulfillment and thriving; today, the good is "the most efficient process in any given situation."

With regard to the Corona Virus, I have been following this story since it first started, and even before it was generally known.** And eventually we discovered that the mind-virus I described above, i.e. "efficiency" is the highest value, has infected the nation's hospital system. Whereas, in times past, the hospital would do everything in it's power, even lose lots of money, to save a dying patient. Today, unfortunately, the hospitals have changed their position on the treatment of those who fall outside the standard deviation. In other words, to put it bluntly, marginal patients are being allowed to die, rather than treating them. This is a nightmare situation. No more experimental treatments, no more experimental drugs, no more fighting for the patient until the last breath. Hospitals are now triage centers in which each patient is evaluated against the standard deviation, and those within the standard deviation are treated first and more effort is used to save them.

Sorry about the length of this post. Thanks for allowing me to get this off my chest this morning.

______________
*contradictory propositions cannot both be true in the same sense at the same time

**Before it was generally known as "Corona" virus, we were hearing anecdotal reports from around the country, especially the coastal states about an unusually strong flu that continued to hang on for a couple of weeks and unusually with aggressive symptoms. We suspect that folks were actually catching Corona Virus without knowing it. This led to speculation that some people were naturally immune to the virus, but I think, rather, that these folks were infected with Corona and gained an immunity.

Well, I now have a newfound respect for you. Why didn’t you speak like this before?
Let me share something with you in regards to hospitals. My cousin is a nurse in a hospital in Boston. I also work in a different hospital.
My experience and her experience can confirm that a lot of decisions in the hospital are made to be profit-based. This is sad but true. However the nurses or the staff or the treatments are not out there to get you and kill you but they will prioritize billing on the number of beds they can use.
Now, if you think this is bad or an American phenomenon alone then I would say to go in some other areas like Eastern Europe, where unless you pay the doctor cash in hand, they literally leave you there to die. People who have some money in those poor areas, they skip the doctors there altogether and go to places like Turkey where the healthcare is better, but they still expect payment.
So in comparison, USA is not so bad in terms of patient care. Money is the motivator in all hospitals worldwide and in some places it’s prioritized aggressively or more modestly like the hospital I work at.
Thanks again for your well-written post, I appreciate it.

 

[Cristo Rei]

Only one person in the world has died from omicron. Covid is now weaker than the common cold.
Yet look at the panic and lunacy they are making out of it... Especially in Europe... Its insane... Big pharma is loving it...
This is life now is it... Not for me... I will never subordinate myself to this dystopian lifestyle. I will continue to live my life without fear and without complying to any of these orders...