Correct me if I am wrong here..are you saying we (believers) are sinless in all spheres of our lives?
Blessings
J.
Not Born with Sin Nature
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Correct me if I am wrong here..are you saying we (believers) are sinless in all spheres of our lives?
Blessings
J.
1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
According to how God sees us as His children, if we live up to the knowledge we have Philippians 3:16, as we walk in the light 1 John 1:7, then the blood of Jesus cleanses us of the unintentional sins we may commit unknowingly.
And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
So it is with all souls made by God: a living soul breathed into a babe in the womb by His Spirit.
God does not make dead souls with sin nature.
I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: marvellous are thy works; and that my soul knoweth right well. My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth.
Souls are not sinfully and wickedly made by God.
Men sin against their own souls, by sinning and making themselves sinners with dead souls separated from God.
For thou hast possessed my reins: thou hast covered me in my mother's womb.
God does not put dead souls with sin in the mother's womb.
Only the soul that sins shall die, not the soul created by God and has not sinned like all men.
All babes and little children with living souls, that grow to knowledge of good and evil, shall sin like all men, and so death shall pass upon them as well, until the judgement of death is taken away with their sins by the blood of the Lamb.
Born again Christians are become as newborn babes with living souls once again on earth, but with age and knowledge of all men that have sinned.
So it is with all souls made by God: a living soul breathed into a babe in the womb by His Spirit.
God does not make dead souls with sin nature.
I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: marvellous are thy works; and that my soul knoweth right well. My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth.
Souls are not sinfully and wickedly made by God.
Men sin against their own souls, by sinning and making themselves sinners with dead souls separated from God.
For thou hast possessed my reins: thou hast covered me in my mother's womb.
God does not put dead souls with sin in the mother's womb.
Only the soul that sins shall die, not the soul created by God and has not sinned like all men.
All babes and little children with living souls, that grow to knowledge of good and evil, shall sin like all men, and so death shall pass upon them as well, until the judgement of death is taken away with their sins by the blood of the Lamb.
Born again Christians are become as newborn babes with living souls once again on earth, but with age and knowledge of all men that have sinned.
1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
I wrote a response to your #54 which couldn't show up in mine, so I deleted mine. Yours had errors
1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
Robert, it would take a book to answer these questions. It looks like I would have to explain every verse in the Bible that you understand incorrectly.
--SEE Heredity, HEREDITY. Parental Influence, HOME
Thank you. Proves the point. Sinning is inherited by example, not by born nature of sin.
Babies die......that's gotta say something.....
It does. Unlike the first Adam, living souls created by the Spirit God are now formed in mortal bodies, covered in the womb with mortal flesh and blood.
men sin because they have a natural bent towards it.
Natural man can philosophize and think whatever he wants, but only Scripture is true:
Butter and honey shall he eat, that he may know to refuse the evil, and choose the good. For before the child shall know to refuse the evil, and choose the good, the land that thou abhorrest shall be forsaken of both her kings.
Men sin when they grow to choose the evil and refuse the good, and so make themselves sinners. They become natural men that sin naturally, and so are by nature of their sin they become children of wrath, which only passes upon all men that sin.
The death of the body is nothing, but only the death of a living soul by sinning.
Self honesty will reveal that without any difficulty!
The natural man of the world can be honest with himself about what he thinks and does. The spiritual man in Christ is honest with God about what He says is true, and does that.
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1) "I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord," (charis to theo dia lesou christou tou kuriou hemon) "Thanks to God through Jesus Christ our Lord;" this deliverance shall be through him. "through faith in his blood," not thru the Law of Moses, the church, baptism, or moral perfection, Rom_3:25.
2) "So then with the mind," (Ara oun to men noi) "So then with the mind, on the one hand;" the mind of the Spirit, which is renewed, grows in grace day by day, Rom_12:1-2; 2Pe_3:18.
3) “I myself serve the law of God," (autos ego douleuo nomo theou) "I myself serve the law of God," the law-principle of eternal holiness, as I work out my salvation, day by day (demonstrate it) in the fruit and deeds of the Spirit, Gal_5:22-25; Eph_4:32; 2Pe_1:4-10.
4) "But with the flesh the law of sin," (te de sarki nomo hamartias) "On the other hand with the flesh (I do slave service to) the law-principle of indwelling, inherent sin;" The new man, new creature, new nature longs for holiness, but the old struggles for lust and pride, and, greed and covetousness, much as Rom_7:17; Rom_7:20; the flesh principle has compulsions only for flesh desires; as the sow loves the mire and the dog his vomit; and every one with the Spirit of God should let him be master or commander-in-chief of all body members, to bring them under subjection, keep them from the mire and dead bodies, unto holiness of life and service. 1Co_9:26-27; 2Pe_2:22.
Rom_7:25. But with the flesh the law of sin.
With the flesh—this old rubbishing stuff that must die and be buried, and the sooner the better. With my old corrupt nature I serve the law of sin. But what a mercy it is that the next verse is, that, notwithstanding that, “There is, therefore, now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit.”
This exposition consisted of readings from Psalms 51. and Rom_7:7-25.
Blessings
J.
Incorrect.
Such as?
You don't answer my question but seems evasive..believers are NOT sinless...if you are not sinless then it stands to reason you have attained godhood..
Those who have true faith have truly been given new life in Christ. If a person believes in Christ, he or she has been “born of God” (1 John 5:1). Regeneration means that someone who was dead in sin is now alive in Christ (Eph. 2:4-5). However, new birth (regeneration) does not mean that the old sinful nature is completely gone. True believers still struggle with indwelling sin (Gal. 5:17). As Luther rightly said, the Christian is a saint and a sinner at the same time.
This means that when we stumble into sin, we can’t simply blame the devil or the world. The devil can mess with us and the world can entice us, but we sin because we still have the “old man” in us, the “flesh.” So how does this “old man” function in us? W. Brakel (d. 1711) explained this well in his discussion on sanctification. I’ll summarize it below:
- Sometimes the old nature stirs us up to sin by violent assaults. The lusts are so agitated and are stirring so vehemently that there is no time to think upon the fear of God. Even if the fear of the Lord is present, the lust is so strong and forceful that any good inclinations are quickly extinguished.
- Sometimes the old nature seeks some rest and relaxation. He begins to think upon natural things and the lusts of the flesh begin to stir, and the thoughts pertaining to natural things become sinful. His mind wanders and he lusts, covets, or becomes proud. He falls into more sin as the moment permits, or even to the degree he never thought himself capable of.
- Sometimes the old nature gains strength due to recklessness. He puts himself into situations he knows will ensnare him, but he does it anyway. The sin at hand gains the upper hand. Contact with grease cannot but leave a stain (vetjes maken smetjes).
- The old sinful nature also is engaged in keeping us from doing good. A) He makes us think there is no time to pray, read Scripture, sing, or meditate upon the word. B) He makes us procrastinate and say we will do godly things later. C) He makes us believe that doing good is too difficult and impossible to do. D) He makes us think that doing good is in vain because God is not paying attention and it will not benefit us. E) He makes us compromisers by saying the path is not as narrow as we think.
- The old sinful nature also wants to keep us from doing good so he attempts to spoil that which is good. A) He makes our thoughts wander. B) He distracts us by making us think about a good thing that isn’t applicable to the situation. C) He causes us to be proud of doing good, and the purity of the duty is contaminated. D) He causes us to think we do not have the Spirit. E) His atheism and unbelief surface and it ruins the good with evil.
The above edited and summarized quote is found in volume three of Brakel’s The Christian’s Reasonable Service, p. 9-11.
Shane Lems
Blessings
J.
Those who have true faith have truly been given new life in Christ. If a person believes in Christ, he or she has been “born of God” (1 John 5:1). Regeneration means that someone who was dead in sin is now alive in Christ (Eph. 2:4-5). However, new birth (regeneration) does not mean that the old sinful nature is completely gone. True believers still struggle with indwelling sin (Gal. 5:17). As Luther rightly said, the Christian is a saint and a sinner at the same time.
This means that when we stumble into sin, we can’t simply blame the devil or the world. The devil can mess with us and the world can entice us, but we sin because we still have the “old man” in us, the “flesh.” So how does this “old man” function in us? W. Brakel (d. 1711) explained this well in his discussion on sanctification. I’ll summarize it below:
- Sometimes the old nature stirs us up to sin by violent assaults. The lusts are so agitated and are stirring so vehemently that there is no time to think upon the fear of God. Even if the fear of the Lord is present, the lust is so strong and forceful that any good inclinations are quickly extinguished.
- Sometimes the old nature seeks some rest and relaxation. He begins to think upon natural things and the lusts of the flesh begin to stir, and the thoughts pertaining to natural things become sinful. His mind wanders and he lusts, covets, or becomes proud. He falls into more sin as the moment permits, or even to the degree he never thought himself capable of.
- Sometimes the old nature gains strength due to recklessness. He puts himself into situations he knows will ensnare him, but he does it anyway. The sin at hand gains the upper hand. Contact with grease cannot but leave a stain (vetjes maken smetjes).
- The old sinful nature also is engaged in keeping us from doing good. A) He makes us think there is no time to pray, read Scripture, sing, or meditate upon the word. B) He makes us procrastinate and say we will do godly things later. C) He makes us believe that doing good is too difficult and impossible to do. D) He makes us think that doing good is in vain because God is not paying attention and it will not benefit us. E) He makes us compromisers by saying the path is not as narrow as we think.
- The old sinful nature also wants to keep us from doing good so he attempts to spoil that which is good. A) He makes our thoughts wander. B) He distracts us by making us think about a good thing that isn’t applicable to the situation. C) He causes us to be proud of doing good, and the purity of the duty is contaminated. D) He causes us to think we do not have the Spirit. E) His atheism and unbelief surface and it ruins the good with evil.
The above edited and summarized quote is found in volume three of Brakel’s The Christian’s Reasonable Service, p. 9-11.
Shane Lems
Wonder who is rightly cutting straight the word of God here...
Blessings
J.
BarneyFife
Well-Known Member
BarneyFife
Well-Known Member
1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
J, This is where you do not understand the power of Grace. By the way, what do you believe the grace of God does for us?
Romans 6:6-7
6 knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin. 7 For he who has died has been freed from sin.
Romans 8:9
8 So then, those who are in the flesh (the old man) cannot please God.
9 But you are not in the flesh (the old man) but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.
So with all your reasons for the desires of the flesh, you need to ask yourself if that person actually is born again. Not all Christians are. Matthew 7:21-23.
Why the sudden change from the hamartia/nature to this? Talking about the commandments foster strife and you as a teacher should know that.
Blessings
J.
P.S. ..how many nomos/entole are there in the New Covenant?;)
1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
Because the scriptures YOU are quoting are about being under the old law. Don't you know that? So if you believe they are for you and me, then you must believe you are under the old covenant law.
1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
Jesus came to free us from the works of the devil - sin and eternal death. So are you free or not? Why ask me - ask yourself.
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