Noah and Abraham were deemed righteous, meaning exactly what?

[Bob]

Thank you all for your detailed replies.

Metaphor: Consider an example of a magnificent forest. What can we say about the TREES in the forest?

Your answer: this Forest occupies X acres, has an average density of Y, and has an age of Z.
Me: fine, but what about the various Trees?

Alternative question: If you spent a day with a person recognizably righteous, what behaviors might you expect?

Peace to All.

 

[David in NJ]

All that means is that God has declared them "in the right". Does God need a reason why He considers them "in the right" with Him?

I'm also wondering how Paul's favorite quotation from Genesis comes into play: "Abraham believed God" (believed God's promise) "and it was accounted to him as righteousness"

Does God need a reason why He considers them "in the right" with Him?

God absolutely does!!!

"Abraham believed God" (believed God's promise) "and it was accounted to him as righteousness"

 

[Soyeong]

But the keeping of the law is not the same idea as imputed righteousness in the Promise by Faith. No one can ever earn God's Promise just through the keeping of the law. Apostle Paul well covered this point too in his Epistles.

Hebrews 11 tells us they were declared righteous because they had faith in God. It's always been by faith, not works of the Law, nor good deeds. We are to be obedient and love our neighbor; but we have all failed to keep the law - so it could not be based on that. Ultimately we are saved by grace through faith.
We believe and have faith in Christ who fulfilled the Law for us, because we could not and Christ's righteousness is imputed to us.

Righteousness is not something that can be earned as a wage even through perfect obedience (Romans 4:1-5). In Romans 3:21-22, it doesn't say that the Law and the Prophets testify that the righteousness of God comes through perfect obedience, but rather the only way to become righteous that is testified about in the Law and the Prophets is through faith in Christ for all who believe. However, for someone to have a character trait means that they are a doer of that trait, so for God to be righteous means that He is a doer of righteous works, and for us to be imputed with the righteousness of God means that we are being given the gift of becoming a doer of righteous works in obedience to God's law. God's law was not given as instructions for how to become righteous, but to describe the life of someone who is righteous as it describes the life of Christ. Christ expressed the righteousness of God through setting an example for us to follow of how to walk in obedience to God's law, so that is also the way that we have the gift of getting to live when we are imputed with the righteousness of God.

Obedience to God's law has absolutely nothing to do with trying to earn our righteousness/justification/salvation/promise/eternal life as a wage, but that that does not mean that having those things does not involve being a doer of God's law through faith, so if Christ had fulfilled the law for us because we could not, then he would have been removing those things from us. In Psalms 119:29-30, he wanted to put false ways far from him, for God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey His law, and he chose the way of faith by setting it before him, so this has always been the one and only way of salvation by grace through faith. Jesus saves us from our sin (Matthew 1:21), and sin is the transgression of God's law (1 John 3:4), so Jesus graciously teaching us to be a doer of it is intrinsically the way that he is giving us his gift of saving us from not being a doer of it, but if Jesus had fulfilled it for us instead of teaching us to be a doer of it, then he would not have been giving us the gift of saving us from not being a doer of it. "To fulfill the law" means "to cause God's will (as made known in the law) to be obeyed as it should be" (NAS Greek Lexicon), so Jesus did not fulfill the law for us so that we don't have to, but in order to teach us how to correctly be a doer of it. According to Galatians 5:14, anyone who has ever loved their neighbor has fulfilled the entire law, so again it refers correctly obeying it as it should be, moreover, it refers to something that countless people have done in accordance with the example that Christ set for us to follow.

 

[Soyeong]

Thank you all for your detailed replies.

Metaphor: Consider an example of a magnificent forest. What can we say about the TREES in the forest?

Your answer: this Forest occupies X acres, has an average density of Y, and has an age of Z.
Me: fine, but what about the various Trees?

Alternative question: If you spent a day with a person recognizably righteous, what behaviors might you expect?

Peace to All.

Jesus expressed his righteousness by setting an example of how to walk in obedience to God's law, so God's law describes the behaviors that you might expect.

 

[David in NJ]

Righteousness is not something that can be earned as a wage even through perfect obedience (Romans 4:1-5). In Romans 3:21-22, it doesn't say that the Law and the Prophets testify that the righteousness of God comes through perfect obedience, but rather the only way to become righteous that is testified about in the Law and the Prophets is through faith in Christ for all who believe. However, for someone to have a character trait means that they are a doer of that trait, so for God to be righteous means that He is a doer of righteous works, and for us to be imputed with the righteousness of God means that we are being given the gift of becoming a doer of righteous works in obedience to God's law. God's law was not given as instructions for how to become righteous, but to describe the life of someone who is righteous as it describes the life of Christ. Christ expressed the righteousness of God through setting an example for us to follow of how to walk in obedience to God's law, so that is also the way that we have the gift of getting to live when we are imputed with the righteousness of God.

Obedience to God's law has absolutely nothing to do with trying to earn our righteousness/justification/salvation/promise/eternal life as a wage, but that having those things does not involve being a doer of it through faith, so if Christ had fulfilled the law for us because we could not, then he would have been removing those things from us. In Psalms 119:29-30, he wanted to put false ways far from him, for God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey His law, and he chose the way of faith by setting it before him, so this has always been the one and only way of salvation by grace through faith. Jesus saves us from our sin (Matthew 1:21), and sin is the transgression of God's law (1 John 3:4), so Jesus graciously teaching us to be a doer of it is intrinsically the way that he is giving us his gift of saving us from not being a doer of it, but if Jesus had fulfilled it for us instead of teaching us to be a doer of it, then he would not have been giving us the gift of saving us from not being a doer of it. "To fulfill the law" means "to cause God's will (as made known in the law) to be obeyed as it should be" (NAS Greek Lexicon), so Jesus did not fulfill the law for us so that we don't have to, but in order to teach us how to correctly be a doer of it. According to Galatians 5:14, anyone who has ever loved their neighbor has fulfilled the entire law, so again it refers correctly obeying it as it should be, moreover, it refers to something that countless people have done in accordance with the example that Christ set for us to follow.

Obedience to God's law = "If you love ME/JESUS, obey MY commandments"

 

[Soyeong]

Obedience to God's law = "If you love ME/JESUS, obey MY commandments"

“God’s law” straightforwardly refers to the laws that God has given of which Jesus was in complete accordance.

 

[David in NJ]

“God’s law” straightforwardly refers to the laws that God has given of which Jesus was in complete accordance.

"God's Law refers to JESUS who is the Law of God

the law under Moses has been REMOVED from the sons of God who are in CHRIST

But those who depend on the law to make them right with God are under his curse, for the Scriptures say, “Cursed is everyone who does not observe and obey all the commands that are written in God’s Book of the Law.” - Galatians 3:10

You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. - Galatians 5:4

Clearly no one who relies on the law is justified before God, because “the righteous will live by faith.” - Galatians 3:11

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Righteousness is not something that can be earned as a wage even through perfect obedience (Romans 4:1-5). In Romans 3:21-22, it doesn't say that the Law and the Prophets testify that the righteousness of God comes through perfect obedience, but rather the only way to become righteous that is testified about in the Law and the Prophets is through faith in Christ for all who believe.

Didn't imply differently. My answer to the OP was simply FAITH and pointed to Hebrews 11.

Obedience to God's law has absolutely nothing to do with trying to earn our righteousness/justification/salvation/promise/eternal life as a wage,

Christians know that, but the Israelites thought they could earn salvation and by their sacrificial system, be forgiven.
Actually all the other religions on the planet have a salvation by works philosophy. Many Christians have a faith + works = salvation theology.
But salvation is by grace through faith alone, not works, it is a gift, not earned, so no one can boast.
Once we are saved, the Holy Spirit prepares works for us to do, and we are to love our neighbor. Loving God is of course doing what He says, being obedient and thankful.

Abraham and Noah had faith and so acted upon ther faith by being obedient, it was tested. To Abraham God said, " Go and sacrifice your only son, Isaac..." That was a test of faith, his obedience to do it. Wow, what must have been running through his mind? "Wait ... my only son ... but I thought through my seed a great nation would come ... and you want me to kill him?" But by faith, he obeyed. Wow! And to Noah, "Build an Ark - it should only take a hundred years ... your sons will help. Why? I am going to destroy the world and kill everyone!"
So our faith is also tied into how we respond, our character and obedience as well. Since their faith was tested and so will ours be.
Our faith is being tested in these end times as we approach the Great Tribulation. We will persevere though, faithfully.

 

[Soyeong]

"God's Law refers to JESUS who is the Law of God

Indeed, Jesus embodied the Mosaic Law by setting a sinless example for us to follow of how to walk in obedience to it.

the law under Moses has been REMOVED from the sons of God who are in CHRIST

No, those who are in Christ are obligated to walk in the same way he walked (1 John 2:6), so only those who are following Christ’s example of walking in obedience to the Mosaic Law are in Christ. The Law of Moses was given by God, which is why it is directly referred to as the Law of God (Luke 2:22-23), so you have no grounds for trying to exclude it from the Law of God. In 1 John 3:4-10, those who are not doers of righteous works in obedience to the Law of God are not sons of God.

But those who depend on the law to make them right with God are under his curse, for the Scriptures say, “Cursed is everyone who does not observe and obey all the commands that are written in God’s Book of the Law.” - Galatians 3:10

You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. - Galatians 5:4

Clearly no one who relies on the law is justified before God, because “the righteous will live by faith.” - Galatians 3:11

Please address what I’ve said about those verses rather than just repeating them.

 

[Davy]

No, those who are in Christ are obligated to walk in the same way he walked (1 John 2:6), so only those who are following Christ’s example of walking in obedience to the Mosaic Law are in Christ.

That above is a false teaching from JUDAISM, not Christianity.

None of us can be OUR OWN CHRIST, which means we will always... fall short of the glory of God! (Romans 3:23).

We can never... be perfect while in the flesh like our Lord Jesus Christ was, and the reason is simple. Jesus Christ is... GOD come in the flesh in order to die on the cross so as to defeat the devil and death FOR US.

Without Jesus Christ we cannot be saved. Those who think all they need do is just keep God's laws, and even lie about keeping it when they really cannot be perfect keeping it and are truly not able to keep it, are FOOLING THEMSELVES, and mocking The Savior Jesus Christ for what He did upon His cross!

What can we CHRISTIANS do then, when we do fall short and find ourselves in a future sin? We are to do what Apostle John taught us to do per 1 John 1, REPENT TO JESUS, and He is Just to cleanse us from the sin. Take the problem to Him and repent, which also means make an effort to not do the sin again.

It is for this reason, that we cannot ever be perfect in keeping God's law, that in the prayer Jesus taught us to pray in Luke 11, includes us asking forgiveness of our sins, and our forgiving those who sin against us.