Noah and Abraham were deemed righteous, meaning exactly what?

[Verily]

@David in NJ do this for me, show me which verse exactly is Davy leaving out of Hosea in point #5 that you want me to see

 

[David in NJ]

I am missing the problem or just not catching what you are in his post, maybe he will clarify.

i do not think Davy said anything wrong

the MAIN Truth that the Apostle Paul is verifying from OT Scripture is this:
a.) the Messiah would come thru the Promised SEED which in Abraham's Day was Isaac, then Jacob
b.) the Lord Jesus Christ is the Promised SEED spoken of to Abraham for ALL nations = the SAVIOR of the World
c.) the Jewish people cannot claim eternal life thru their flesh descendancy from Abraham
d.) the Holy Spirit spoke thru OT prophets of Gentiles coming to God thru the Promised Seed which is MESSIAH

Conclusion: the Jews lost SIGHT of God's Eternal Way which, thru the MESSIAH(and even before) would include the Gentiles and thus they were called "not My people"
the Holy Spirit, said: I will call them My people where they were called "not My people"/Gentiles
This is CLEARLY shown to us in the Gospel of John chapter 1 and thru the Apostles writings and finally Revelation

 

[David in NJ]

@David in NJ do this for me, show me which verse exactly is Davy leaving out of Hosea in point #5 that you want me to see

10“Yet the number of the children of Israel
Shall be as the sand of the sea,
Which cannot be measured or numbered.
And it shall come to pass
In the place where it was said to them,
‘You are not My people,’
There it shall be said to them,
‘You are sons of the living God.’
11Then the children of Judah and the children of Israel
Shall be gathered together,
And appoint for themselves one head;
And they shall come up out of the land,
For great will be the day of Jezreel!

 

[David in NJ]

@David in NJ do this for me, show me which verse exactly is Davy leaving out of Hosea in point #5 that you want me to see

But it is not that the word of God has taken no effect. For they are not all Israel who are of Israel, nor are they all children because they are the seed of Abraham; but, “In Isaac your seed shall be called.” That is, those who are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God; but the children of the promise are counted as the seed. For this is the word of promise: “At this time I will come and Sarah shall have a son.”

What if God, wanting to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, and that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had prepared beforehand for glory, even us whom He called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

As He says also in Hosea:

“I will call them My people, who were not My people,
And her beloved, who was not beloved.”
“And it shall come to pass in the place where it was said to them,
‘You are not My people,’
There they shall be called sons of the living God.”
Isaiah also cries out concerning Israel:

“Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea,
The remnant will be saved.
For He will finish the work and cut it short in righteousness,
Because the Lord will make a short work upon the earth.”

What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness of faith; but Israel, pursuing the law of righteousness, has not attained to the law of righteousness. Why? Because they did not seek it by faith, but as it were, [by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumbling stone. As it is written:

“Behold, I lay in Zion a stumbling stone and rock of offense,
And whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.”

 

[Verily]

i do not think Davy said anything wrong

the MAIN Truth that the Apostle Paul is verifying from OT Scripture is this:
a.) the Messiah would come thru the Promised SEED which in Abraham's Day was Isaac, then Jacob
b.) the Lord Jesus Christ is the Promised SEED spoken of to Abraham for ALL nations = the SAVIOR of the World
c.) the Jewish people cannot claim eternal life thru their flesh descendancy from Abraham
d.) the Holy Spirit spoke thru OT prophets of Gentiles coming to God thru the Promised Seed which is MESSIAH

Conclusion: the Jews lost SIGHT of God's Eternal Way which, thru the MESSIAH(and even before) would include the Gentiles and thus they were called "not My people"
the Holy Spirit, said: I will call them My people where they were called "not My people"/Gentiles
This is CLEARLY shown to us in the Gospel of John chapter 1 and thru the Apostles writings and finally Revelation

Now I have understood it as you have put it, that it refers to the Gentiles (only) I thought it couldnt be more clearer, but then someone else posted an argument somewhere against how that was supposed to be understood, and thats when I try to double check myself. I think I went over to Bible Hub to get a feeling as to any discrepencies on it which seem to be in agreement with the argument I read and what I seem to be catching with Davy's undertsanding on this.

It does incude the Gentiles, (the other argument said so much also). I wasnt really getting why it had to be a little more complicated than what seemed clear enough to me, but its those little details that will get cha.

Maybe someone else will chime in on this too.

 

[David in NJ]

Now I have understood it as you have put it, that it refers to the Gentiles (only) I thought it couldnt be more clearer, but then someone else posted an argument somewhere against how that was supposed to be understood, and thats when I try to double check myself. I think I went over to Bible Hub to get a feeling as to any discrepencies on it which seem to be in agreement with the argument I read and what I seem to be catching with Davy's undertsanding on this.

It does incude the Gentiles, (the other argument said so much also). I wasnt really getting why it had to be a little more complicated than what seemed clear enough to me, but its those little details that will get cha.

Maybe someone else will chime in on this too.

It includes BOTH the Jews and the Gentiles

Forgive, if i said Gentiles only

 

[Verily]

10“Yet the number of the children of Israel
Shall be as the sand of the sea,
Which cannot be measured or numbered.
And it shall come to pass
In the place where it was said to them,
‘You are not My people,’
There it shall be said to them,
‘You are sons of the living God.’
11Then the children of Judah and the children of Israel
Shall be gathered together,
And appoint for themselves one head;
And they shall come up out of the land,
For great will be the day of Jezreel!

You were implying he was leaving out a verse concerning the Gentiles, not Israel though werent you?

 

[Soyeong]

Do you feel the above verse contradicted your stance somehow?

There are these in respects to Abraham

Romans 4:10 How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision?
Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision.

Romans 4:13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.

No. In Acts 3:25-26, Jesus came are the promised seed to bless us by turning us from our wickedness, so while we do not earn the promise as the result of our works, the content of what is promised is still in regard to Jesus leading us to obey God's law.

The only way for someone to become righteous is through faith, but what it means for someone to become righteous is for them to become a doer of righteous works in obedience to God's law, this is why the same faith by which we are declared righteous apart from works does not abolish our need to obey God's law, but rather our faith upholds it (Romans 3:27-31).

 

[Verily]

It includes BOTH the Jews and the Gentiles

Forgive, if i said Gentiles only

I know it does, what makes you think I am missing this?

 

[David in NJ]

Now I have understood it as you have put it, that it refers to the Gentiles (only) I thought it couldnt be more clearer, but then someone else posted an argument somewhere against how that was supposed to be understood, and thats when I try to double check myself. I think I went over to Bible Hub to get a feeling as to any discrepencies on it which seem to be in agreement with the argument I read and what I seem to be catching with Davy's undertsanding on this.

It does incude the Gentiles, (the other argument said so much also). I wasnt really getting why it had to be a little more complicated than what seemed clear enough to me, but its those little details that will get cha.

Maybe someone else will chime in on this too.

i went back and checked my post = i did not say - gentiles only

 

[Verily]

No. In Acts 3:25-26, Jesus came are the promised seed to bless us by turning us from our wickedness, so while we do not earn the promise as the result of our works, what is promised is still in regard to Jesus leading us to obey God's law.

The only way for someone to become righteous is through faith, but what it means for someone to become righteous is for them to become a doer of righteous works in obedience to God's law, this is why the same faith by which we are declared righteous apart from works does not abolish our need to obey God's law, but rather our faith upholds it (Romans 3:27-31).

I have a hard time following you Soyeong forget I asked

 

[David in NJ]

You were implying he was leaving out a verse concerning the Gentiles, not Israel though werent you?

i was refering to the fact that Hosea speaks of Jews and Gentiles

If Davy meant for the Jews only, then he is incorrect

 

[Verily]

this applies to the Gentiles who come to MESSIAH

You just said the above

 

[David in NJ]

I know it does, what makes you think I am missing this

You just said the above

Did i use the word "ONLY" ???

 

[Verily]

i was refering to the fact that Hosea speaks of Jews and Gentiles

If Davy meant for the Jews only, then he is incorrect

Thats why I posted behind you saying (see the red and blue highlights) between them

I believe that is what Davy means when he wrote #5 and #6

5. God then reveals prophecy of what He would do to Ephraim and the ten tribed "house of Israel". That He would scatter then to new lands, and there give them the full weight of their Baal idol worship they forget Him for. But then He would give them a door of hope, and a new covenant in new lands, and no longer called them, 'no My people' (Lo-Ami), but instead Ami, meaning 'My people', and others with them would also be called the sons of the living GOD. (see Book of Hosea).

6. Apostle Paul in Romans 9 would quote from the Book of Hosea to Gentile Roman believers on Jesus Christ, referring to them also as the sons of the living GOD reference in Hosea along with the ten tribe "house of Israel".

Notice in #5 (Red and blue)

and no longer called them, 'no My people' (Lo-Ami), but instead Ami, meaning 'My people', and others with them

Notice in #6 (Blue and red)

in Romans 9 would quote from the Book of Hosea to Gentile Roman believers on... along with the ten tribe "house of Israel".

He shows both

 

[Verily]

Did i use the word "ONLY" ???

What are you talking about?

 

[David in NJ]

Thats why I posted behind you saying (see the red and blue highlights) between them

I believe that is what Davy means when he wrote #5 and #6

5. God then reveals prophecy of what He would do to Ephraim and the ten tribed "house of Israel". That He would scatter then to new lands, and there give them the full weight of their Baal idol worship they forget Him for. But then He would give them a door of hope, and a new covenant in new lands, and no longer called them, 'no My people' (Lo-Ami), but instead Ami, meaning 'My people', and others with them would also be called the sons of the living GOD. (see Book of Hosea).

6. Apostle Paul in Romans 9 would quote from the Book of Hosea to Gentile Roman believers on Jesus Christ, referring to them also as the sons of the living GOD reference in Hosea along with the ten tribe "house of Israel".

Notice in #5 (Red and blue)

and no longer called them, 'no My people' (Lo-Ami), but instead Ami, meaning 'My people', and others with them

Notice in #6 (Blue and red)

in Romans 9 would quote from the Book of Hosea to Gentile Roman believers on... along with the ten tribe "house of Israel".

He shows both

i love colors = super helpful to distinguish

Like i said, "Davy said nothing wrong"

 

[David in NJ]

What are you talking about?

When i said Hosea speaks of the Gentiles i did not say ONLY the Gentiles

 

[Verily]

When i said Hosea speaks of the Gentiles i did not say ONLY the Gentiles

I personally used the word only because you seemed to be correcting Davys post in Post #16 as though it were for Gentiles only, when Davy included both.

You did not say the word"only" but implied it at a post that included both of them

 

[David in NJ]

@Verily

Post #24 has the CORRECT answer to the prophecy of Hosea ch1