No authority!

[justbyfaith]

That's absolutely true. But that does not rule out subordinate mediators.

However, clearly, in some sense, there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus (1 Timothy 2:5).

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Once again - that's NOT what the Bible says.
As a metter of fact - Paul makes the following statement in defense of his priestly function:
Rom 15:14-16
I myself am satisfied about you, my brothers, that you yourselves are full of goodness, filled with all knowledge and able to instruct one another. But on some points I have written to you very boldly by way of reminder, because of the grace given me by God to be a minister of Christ Jesus to the Gentiles in the PRIESTLY SERVICE of the gospel of God, so that the offering of the Gentiles may be acceptable, sanctified by the Holy Spirit.

Here, the verb form of the SAME Greek word for "Priest" (heirus) that we find everywhere else in the NT is used.
Your KJV renders this word as "ministering" because the translators of the KJV had an anti-Catholic/anti-Priest agenda - even though the Greek word is clear.

Besides - I also showed you James 5:14, 2 Cor. 5:18-20 and 2 Cor. 2:10 which further obliterate your anti-Priest argument . . .

You don't need a Catholic priest to evangelize people and bring them to Christ. Anybody gifted with the office of evangelist can do it. And any believer with a gift for evangelism can do it. In this New Covenant we're all in the priestly service of God to one extent or another. But the priestly service that God needs none of us for is the priestly service that the Levites used to perform in the offering of a sacrifice for forgiveness. Christ alone is the Priest who does that and he did it one time for all time for all people. And anyone can access it by simply believing and trusting in it. No Catholic priest required. There is no need of a priesthood in that regard anymore.

What we do need, and have, are the various offices of ministry—pastor, teacher, evangelist, apostle, and prophet. And our individual gifts—wisdom, knowledge, faith, miracles, etc. But we do not need a system of mortal priests anymore. Christ himself set that corrupt and weak system aside by becoming our one and only Priest and Sacrifice. Which can be accessed by anyone by themselves, anywhere, anytime, any place, through their faith. No intervening priest required.

 

[Taken]

In this New Covenant we're all in the priestly service of God to one extent or another. But the priestly service that God needs none of us for is the priestly service that the Levites used to perform in the offering of a sacrifice for forgiveness. Christ alone is the Priest who does that and he did it one time for all time for all people. And anyone can access it by simply believing and trusting in it. No Catholic priest required. There is no need of a priesthood in that regard anymore. What we do need, and have, are the various offices of ministry—pastor, teacher, evangelist, apostle, and prophet. And our individual gifts—wisdom, knowledge, faith, miracles, etc. But we do not need a system of mortal priests anymore. Christ himself set that corrupt and weak system aside by becoming our one and only Priest and Sacrifice. Which can be accessed by anyone by themselves, anywhere, anytime, any place, through their faith. No intervening priest required.

Agree.

Jesus Impressed-
Hear the Word of God-
Continue Hearing-
Receive Gods Word of Enlightenment-
Receive TASTING the Measure of Faith-
Continue TASTING, Continue Receiving Faith.
Belief will INCREASE.
Declare your Heartful Belief.
Receive...Forgiveness for All Sin.
Receive...Salvation (restoration) of your Soul.
Receive...Quickening (Born again) spirit.
Receive...Gods Spirit withIN you, To Keep You

• Now you are "PREPARED" To be a Disciple of Christ the Lord...TO speak to any other willingly listener, the Good News of the Word of God, brought to us Via, The Lord Jesus, and written in the Holy Scriptures, Approved by God...According TO God.

• Going to Seminary, Theology School, Getting a man-made Certificate and a Title "QUALIFIES" a man...
According TO man made "rules", "traditions".

SEE the Difference ... ?
BreadOfLife
Ferris Bueller


The Lord God "Prepares"
Man-KIND "Qualifies"

A qualified man...has Historically and Repeatedly revealed, they are NOT "prepared".

• Jesus Himself called Attention to "QUALIFIED" men, who were NOT "PREPARED" men.

Matt: 23:
13,14,15,23,25,27,29

Luke: 20:46

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[theefaith]

That's absolutely true. But that does not rule out subordinate mediators. That is a tradition of men. The notion of no subordinate mediators is not even hinted at in Scripture, yet some Christians have made it a dogma. The cloud of witnesses in Hebrews 12:1 are not deaf and blind to earthly affairs, as they would have it. Being deaf and blind is not a heavenly reward, IMO.

Before Paul’s teaching about Jesus as the “one mediator,” Paul urges supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all people. Paul is thus appealing for mediation from others besides Christ, the one mediator. Why?

1 Tim 2:3 – because this subordinate mediation is good and acceptable to God our Savior. Because God is our Father and we are His children, God invites us to participate in Christ’s role as mediator.

1 Tim. 2:5 – therefore, although Jesus Christ is the sole mediator between God and man, there are many intercessors (subordinate mediators).

1 Cor. 3:9 – God invites us to participate in Christ’s work because we are God’s “fellow workers” and one family in the body of Christ. God wants His children to participate. The phrase used to describe “fellow workers” is “sunergoi,” which literally means synergists, or cooperators with God in salvific matters. Does God need fellow workers? Of course not, but this shows how much He, as Father, loves His children. God wants us to work with Him.

Mark 16:20 – this is another example of how the Lord “worked with them” (“sunergountos”). God cooperates with us. Out of His eternal love, He invites our participation.

Rom. 8:28 – God “works for good with” (the Greek is “sunergei eis agathon”) those who love Him. We work as subordinate mediators.

2 Cor. 6:1 – “working together” (the Greek is “sunergountes”) with him, don’t accept His grace in vain. God allows us to participate in His work, not because He needs our help, but because He loves us and wants to exalt us in His Son. It is like the father who lets his child join him in carrying the groceries in the house. The father does not need help, but he invites the child to assist to raise up the child in dignity and love.

moses was mediator and there were 72 under him
Even in Matt 23 those who sit in the seat of Moses are successors

 

[BreadOfLife]

You don't need a Catholic priest to evangelize people and bring them to Christ. Anybody gifted with the office of evangelist can do it. And any believer with a gift for evangelism can do it. In this New Covenant we're all in the priestly service of God to one extent or another. But the priestly service that God needs none of us for is the priestly service that the Levites used to perform in the offering of a sacrifice for forgiveness. Christ alone is the Priest who does that and he did it one time for all time for all people. And anyone can access it by simply believing and trusting in it. No Catholic priest required. There is no need of a priesthood in that regard anymore.

What we do need, and have, are the various offices of ministry—pastor, teacher, evangelist, apostle, and prophet. And our individual gifts—wisdom, knowledge, faith, miracles, etc. But we do not need a system of mortal priests anymore. Christ himself set that corrupt and weak system aside by becoming our one and only Priest and Sacrifice. Which can be accessed by anyone by themselves, anywhere, anytime, any place, through their faith. No intervening priest required.

You are absolutely correct about your statement above in RED.
ALL of us are called to evangelize. But that's NOT what these verses are about (2 Cor. 5:18-20, 2 Cor. 2:10).

They are about the Ministry of Reconciliation entrusted to the Clergy (John 20:21-23) - and NOT the Laity.
This is why Paul repeatedly differentiaes betwee the two ("Us", We', and "You").

YOU simply ignore this fact because it destroys your case . . .

 

[Ferris Bueller]

You are absolutely correct about your statement above in RED.
ALL of us are called to evangelize. But that's NOT what these verses are about (2 Cor. 5:18-20, 2 Cor. 2:10).

They are about the Ministry of Reconciliation entrusted to the Clergy (John 20:21-23) - and NOT the Laity.
This is why Paul repeatedly differentiaes betwee the two ("Us", We', and "You").

YOU simply ignore this fact because it destroys your case . . .

We don't need a mortal priesthood to reconcile people to God. Jesus' Ministry and Sacrifice does that all by itself. And we access His Ministry and Sacrifice ourselves through our faith. That's the NEW Way. The OLD way was the way of the earthly priesthood. That's dead and gone now. Adios. Not needed anymore. Get with the program! You're living in the old covenant way of things.

 

[BreadOfLife]

We don't need a mortal priesthood to reconcile people to God. Jesus' Ministry and Sacrifice does that all by itself. And we access His Ministry and Sacrifice ourselves through our faith. That's the NEW Way. The OLD way was the way of the earthly priesthood. That's dead and gone now. Adios. Not needed anymore. Get with the program! You're living in the old covenant way of things.

And as I have repeatedly proven you wrong - the Bible disagrees with you (Rom. 15:16, 2 Cor. 5:18-20, 2 Cor. 2:10, James 5-14-15).

ALL of these verses decribe PRIESTLY functions by a Ministerial Priesthood within the Body of Christ.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

And as I have repeatedly proven you wrong - the Bible disagrees with you (Rom. 15:16, 2 Cor. 5:18-20, 2 Cor. 2:10, James 5-14-15).

ALL of these verses decribe PRIESTLY functions by a Ministerial Priesthood within the Body of Christ.

No, really. All we need is Jesus. We don't need your priesthood. They can't do anything that Jesus hasn't already done for us. And they can't take us nearer to God than we already are through Jesus. Don't need ya!

 

[Ronald Nolette]

The man of God refers to a bishop

No bishop or Shepherd refers to a bishop!

Manof God is a male who loves God! YOu don't have the right to privately interpret the bible.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

And as I have repeatedly proven you wrong - the Bible disagrees with you (Rom. 15:16, 2 Cor. 5:18-20, 2 Cor. 2:10, James 5-14-15).

ALL of these verses decribe PRIESTLY functions by a Ministerial Priesthood within the Body of Christ.

Teh Body of Christ does not need a ministerial priesthood. We are a nation of priests! With Jesus as our High Priest.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Teh Body of Christ does not need a ministerial priesthood. We are a nation of priests! With Jesus as our High Priest.

Well, since your fellow anti-Catholic, @Ferris Bueller failed so completely to refute the following passages that describe a MINISTERIAL Prosthood - perhaps YOU can:
Rom. 15:16, 2 Cor. 5:18-20, 2 Cor. 2:10, James 5-14-15

I eagerly await your educated response . . .

 

[theefaith]

No bishop or Shepherd refers to a bishop!

Manof God is a male who loves God! YOu don't have the right to privately interpret the bible.

man of God or workman is the Apostles or bishop

 

[Ronald Nolette]

man of God or workman is the Apostles or bishop

So you are not a workman for God then. OK Well that is the typical RCC answer for excusing oneself of educating themselves in SCripture!

 

[theefaith]

Teh Body of Christ does not need a ministerial priesthood. We are a nation of priests! With Jesus as our High Priest.

that’s what you call context and exegesis????

Christ is the high priest according to the order of Melchizedek so there must be low priests of the same ministering order!
Not the priesthood of believers which is the royal priesthood!

 

[BreadOfLife]

No, really. All we need is Jesus. We don't need your priesthood. They can't do anything that Jesus hasn't already done for us. And they can't take us nearer to God than we already are through Jesus. Don't need ya!

In other words, you have failed again tto refute these verses.

That's what I figured . . .

 

[theefaith]

So you are not a workman for God then. OK Well that is the typical RCC answer for excusing oneself of educating themselves in SCripture!

no I’m just one of the faithful what you would call a believer

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Well, since your fellow anti-Catholic, @Ferris Bueller failed so completely to refute the following passages that describe a MINISTERIAL Prosthood - perhaps YOU can:
Rom. 15:16, 2 Cor. 5:18-20, 2 Cor. 2:10, James 5-14-15

I eagerly await your educated response . . .

Romans 15:16
King James Version

16 That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost.

Minister is servant and He is not even implying the role of the RCC priests. and I am not anti-Catholic, I am anti-Catholicism.

2 Corinthians 5:18
King James Version

18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

This is not RCC confession. This is one getting saved and being reconciled by trust in the gospel. But as you believe you can lose your salvation.....

2 Corinthians 2:10
King James Version

10 To whom ye forgive any thing, I forgive also: for if I forgave any thing, to whom I forgave it, for your sakes forgave I it in the person of Christ;

Once again this is not the RCC hypotheses that priests actually have the authority to forgive sins judicially. Ministers of the gospel (pastors) have the authority to hold someone experientially accountable for their sin, but Jesus already forgave their sin at teh cross, and when they place dtheior trust in Him, applied that forgiveness to each and every single one of their sins.

James 5:14-15
King James Version

14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:

15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.

Well RCC calls this extreme unction or last rites, but in believing churches we call it a prayer over the sick anointing them with oil. I have seen healings take place this way, even to me twice!

So sorry, we do need pastors for the maturing of the saints but not to perform rituals that have even lost their meaning for many of the priests! That is why vocations are so down.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

that’s what you call context and exegesis????

Christ is the high priest according to the order of Melchizedek so there must be low priests of the same ministering order!
Not the priesthood of believers which is the royal priesthood!

Who says? The bible doesn't demand it! Only a RCC dogma demands it.

That is the only priest hood mentioned in the NT. There is not even a whisper of lower priests under Jesus in the Melchizedekian order.

 

[theefaith]

In other words, you have failed again tto refute these verses.

That's what I figured . . .

you can’t have Jesus: sorry!


The promise (sacred oath or sacrament) of the Father acts 2:38-39 with reference to ez 36:25-27

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Ez 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Jn 3:5 born again by water and the spirit.

Heb 7:21 For those priests were made without an oath; but this with an oath by him that said unto him, The Lord sware and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec
(Oath = sacrament)

Hebrews 8:6
But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises. Based on Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:



A promise is a sacred oath or sacrament!
Baptismal regeneration is the promise of the Father for union in the new covenant!

The church and the seven sacraments are necessary for salvation

Better covenant on better promises

2 Timothy 1:1
Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, according to the promise of life which is in Christ Jesus,

Life of supernatural grace merited by Christ in His passion and death!

An oath to sacramental life in the new covenant in union with the mediator and communion with God, and the saints!

Promise of the Father acts 2:23-39
Promise is an oath and an oath is a sacrament! This promise of the sacrament of baptism refers to ez. 36:25-27

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.


1 Pet 3:20
Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark all died and outside the church there is no salvation!)

You can’t have Jesus and you alone in a personal covenant!

Jesus and His church and His covenant and His sacraments are inseparable!!!

 

[theefaith]

Romans 15:16
King James Version

16 That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost.

Minister is servant and He is not even implying the role of the RCC priests. and I am not anti-Catholic, I am anti-Catholicism.

2 Corinthians 5:18
King James Version

18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

This is not RCC confession. This is one getting saved and being reconciled by trust in the gospel. But as you believe you can lose your salvation.....

2 Corinthians 2:10
King James Version

10 To whom ye forgive any thing, I forgive also: for if I forgave any thing, to whom I forgave it, for your sakes forgave I it in the person of Christ;

Once again this is not the RCC hypotheses that priests actually have the authority to forgive sins judicially. Ministers of the gospel (pastors) have the authority to hold someone experientially accountable for their sin, but Jesus already forgave their sin at teh cross, and when they place dtheior trust in Him, applied that forgiveness to each and every single one of their sins.

James 5:14-15
King James Version

14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:

15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.

Well RCC calls this extreme unction or last rites, but in believing churches we call it a prayer over the sick anointing them with oil. I have seen healings take place this way, even to me twice!

So sorry, we do need pastors for the maturing of the saints but not to perform rituals that have even lost their meaning for many of the priests! That is why vocations are so down.

pastors are priests

vocation being down have nothing to do with that