No authority!

[BreadOfLife]

Scripture as it is
...not okay with you.
People speaking for themselves
...not okay with you.
You don't get it...
The Word God inspired IS sufficient
People's own word IS sufficient

Neither requires you speaking for them or interpreting their words.

Your pre-set narratives;

Are child's play tactics fooling no one.

Ummmmm, the argument is about Mary's Biblical title of "Kecharitomene" and its linguistic implications - NOT about the sufficiency of Scripture.

And IF the Word of God WAS sufficient for you - then you wouldn't be arguing about this Scriptural word in Luke 1:28 . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

One could quiet easily envisage the depth or breadth of grace was commensurate according to the need. Where sin abounds, grace does much more abound. Now I'm not suggesting that Mary was a great sinner and therefore needed more grace, but I would suggest the "highly favored" aspect... The "full of grace" aspect... Was in direct relation to the one being born... Not the one giving birth.

I couldn't agree with you more - and neither could the Catholic Church.

 

[BreadOfLife]

You should tell your Pope that Mary wont be there at the time of your death or at the time of His.
See how he reacts.
Let us know.
You should tell your Pope who twists his beads and prays to MARY and other SAINTS, that you deny you do it, and that you don't agree with His Theology.

Look, if you are embarrassed to admit what your water cult teaches and believes, and you should be.... then just admit it, as lying about it, and trying to pretend this is not what you do, and your Roman Leader does, and the others like you on this Forum do, including MaryMOG..... is not working for you.

Listen, just admit the truth, but, keep in mind, your efforts to recruit real believers into the "cult of the virgin" is a bonafide fail.
Total Fail, and will continue.
I think you forget that this is not a "cult of the virgin" forum.
The members here are not interested in hearing about water regeneration or mary's ascension, or the "holy father", or purgatory, or ash Wednesday, or Transubstantiation, or venal or moral sins, or how much penance you have to do based on your horrible behavior on this Forum.

Better yet - why don't YOU show me the official Catholic teaching on praying TO statues and paintings.
I'll even give you the website so you don't need to Google it: Catechism of the Catholic Church
Happy hunting . . .

As for your statement that Mary or ANY other saint in Heaven can't see what's going on here on earth - then you DON'T know your Bible, son.
Heb. 12:1 says that they are "so great a cloud of WITNESSES" that surround us. A "witness" is someone who sees and hears.

And if you want to bring up the fact that neither Lazarus nor the Rich Man could see or intercede on earth - it's because they weren't in HEAVEN, Einstein. Christ had not yet opened it up.

STUDY your Bible . . .

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Authority is in men

2 John 1:12
Having many things to write unto you, I would not write with paper and ink: but I trust to come unto you, and speak face to face, that our joy may be full.

And a mans authority in spiritual matters goes only as far as they stay faithful to Scripture!

If a pope declares every one must have wednesdays off tro worship god- I do not have to follow that. Or if a pope says it is okay for gays to have civil unions- I am bound to disagree with them.

 

[justbyfaith]

WRONG.
YOU accused me of saying that certain verses of Scripture were "contradictory" - which I never said.

That is the very definition of a LIE . . .

Really I am not in the slightest distressed over your continued accusations.

Do you know why?

Because you have shown forth the reality that if anyone opposes you, your normal reaction is to call them a liar...

And in this you have lost all credibility in the eyes of many people.

And therefore I no longer have any reason to fear your attacks on my character.

Also, you said that they were seemingly contradictory...so it was an honest mistake...

Not a LIE...as you would seek to accuse me of committing as a sin yet again (see Revelation 12:10-11).

It is par for the course with you; even though it is most often true that when you accuse someone of lying, they have not in fact lied but have merely said something that offends you.

 

[Taken]

Ummmmm, the argument is about Mary's Biblical title of "Kecharitomene" and its linguistic implications - NOT about the sufficiency of Scripture.

And IF the Word of God WAS sufficient for you - then you wouldn't be arguing about this Scriptural word in Luke 1:28 . . .

Ummmmm, the argument is about Mary's Biblical title of "Kecharitomene" and its linguistic implications - NOT about the sufficiency of Scripture.

And IF the Word of God WAS sufficient for you - then you wouldn't be arguing about this Scriptural word in Luke 1:28 . . .

Since you have chosen to put yourself as a forerunner teacher pertaining to the word;

Kecharitomeme....

How about you reveal your knowledge on the Origin of WHO coined, or First used that "word"?

 

[BreadOfLife]

Really I am not in the slightest distressed over your continued accusations.
Do you know why?
Because you have shown forth the reality that if anyone opposes you, your normal reaction is to call them a liar...

And in this you have lost all credibility in the eyes of many people.
And therefore I no longer have any reason to fear your attacks on my character.
Also, you said that they were seemingly contradictory...so it was an honest mistake...
Not a LIE...as you would seek to accuse me of committing as a sin yet again (see Revelation 12:10-11).
It is par for the course with you; even though it is most often true that when you accuse someone of lying, they have not in fact lied but have merely said something that offends you.

And that is another LIE.

I couldn't care less if anybody opposes me. I only expose LIES - not the fact that somebody disagrees with me.
If I accused "everybody" of lying who simply disagreed with me - as YOU have dishonestly accused me - my marriage would have been over YEARS ago.

Enough with your nonsense.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Since you have chosen to put yourself as a forerunner teacher pertaining to the word;

Kecharitomeme....

How about you reveal your knowledge on the Origin of WHO coined, or First used that "word"?

How about, instead of dodging the issue - YOU try to defend your moronic claims from post #832 that Kecharitomene simply means "Highly favoured" and is NO different from Sarah or Elizabeth being favoured??

I've presented a MOUNTAIN of scholarly linguistic evidence regarding "Kecharitomene" and its implications.
Now, it's YOUR turn to refute that mountain of evidence - or concede the point that Mary's title of Kecharitomene set her apart from EVERY other persoin in Scripture.

I'll wait here for your response . . .

 

[theefaith]

And a mans authority in spiritual matters goes only as far as they stay faithful to Scripture!

If a pope declares every one must have wednesdays off tro worship god- I do not have to follow that. Or if a pope says it is okay for gays to have civil unions- I am bound to disagree with them.

where is that n the Bible?

 

[justbyfaith]

And that is another LIE.

I couldn't care less if anybody opposes me. I only expose LIES - not the fact that somebody disagrees with me.
If I accused "everybody" of lying who simply disagreed with me - as YOU have dishonestly accused me - my marriage would have been over YEARS ago.

Enough with your nonsense.

Keep telling yourself that.

The reality of the matter is that you accuse just about everyone who disagrees with you of lying.

Why would your marriage have been over? Did you wife make it clear to you that she will never again tolerate this kind of behaviour from you?

 

[Taken]

How about, instead of dodging the issue -

Dodging nothing. Putting the focus entirely on a "word", you have repeated over and over and over.

So why are you dodging...?
Kecharitomene
Who coined that word? first used that word?
Are you ignorant of the Origin of the Word you have used over and over?

 

[BreadOfLife]

Keep telling yourself that.
The reality of the matter is that you accuse just about everyone who disagrees with you of lying.

That's a false statement.
And anybody on this forum can search for our converdsations and see that I am right about you having lied on numerous occasions.

For the sake of your soul - I suggest that you heed God's Commandment in Exod. 20:16.

Why would your marriage have been over? Did you wife make it clear to you that she will never again tolerate this kind of behaviour from you?

Because EVERY mrriage has disagreements - but it doesn't meant that they are lies, Einstein . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Dodging nothing. Putting the focus entirely on a "word", you have repeated over and over and over.
So why are you dodging...?
Kecharitomene
Who coined that word? first used that word?
Are you ignorant of the Origin of the Word you have used over and over?

Once again, you 're pretty much conceding the fact that you LOST the argument because you cannot refute the mountain of scholarly evidence I presented regarding this word and it's implications in Scripture.
Thanks.

And to even thought you FAILED to answer MY question - to the best of my knowledge, since the Angel probaby spoke to Mary in Aramaic - I would say that John coined the Greek term, "Kecharitomene", under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Illuminator]

And that is another LIE.

I couldn't care less if anybody opposes me. I only expose LIES - not the fact that somebody disagrees with me.
If I accused "everybody" of lying who simply disagreed with me - as YOU have dishonestly accused me - my marriage would have been over YEARS ago.

Enough with your nonsense.

My ignore list is up to 29. I appealed to Protestant scholars on the meaning of kacharetomene but it falls on deaf ears. Perhaps it's because anti-Mary Christians have their private opinion as the supreme authority, nevermind what Protestant scholars think, who have studied the Bible all their lives and write manuals. Pride and blindness keeps them from accepting the meaning of kacharetomene, yet they appeal to "original Greek" whenever it suits them.

 

[Taken]

Once again, you 're pretty much conceding the fact that you LOST the argument ...

Trying to talk for me again...
Again a fail.

Twice you have been asked about the Origin and first use of the word you have repeatedly use to make a point.

Kecharitomeme

Since Twice you have not been able to give a response to the question, there is no argument.

Why not go ask your trusted scholars the Origin and first use of that word?

 

[theefaith]

Trying to talk for me again...
Again a fail.

Twice you have been asked about the Origin and first use of the word you have repeatedly use to make a point.



Since Twice you have not been able to give a response to the question, there is no argument.

Why not go ask your trusted scholars the Origin and first use of that word?

Full of grace “sinless”

 

[Taken]

Ummmmm, the argument is about Mary's Biblical title of "Kecharitomene" and its linguistic implications - NOT about the sufficiency of Scripture.

And IF the Word of God WAS sufficient for you - then you wouldn't be arguing about this Scriptural word in Luke 1:28 . . .

If "THAT" Word appeared in the English translation, and you are conversing with English speakers...why all of a sudden Greek Speak...?
Did your "touted" catholic translators make an error?

 

[Taken]

Full of grace “sinless”

LOL- uh no.

Grace of God is Gods giving TO a human WHAT a human did not earn.

Men can be Full of Gods Love, Full of Gods Spirit, Full of Gods Faith, Full of any of Gods Gifts, He Gives Because of His Grace...
Not because a man Earned it.

 

[BreadOfLife]

LOL- uh no.

Grace of God is Gods giving TO a human WHAT a human did not earn.

Men can be Full of Gods Love, Full of Gods Spirit, Full of Gods Faith, Full of any of Gods Gifts, He Gives Because of His Grace...
Not because a man Earned it.

"Completely, perfectly and enduringly endowed with grace - a past even with a permanent reult" = without sin.

That's "Kecharitomene" in a nutshell - and NOBODY said she "earned" it . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

If "THAT" Word appeared in the English translation, and you are conversing with English speakers...why all of a sudden Greek Speak...?
Did your "touted" catholic translators make an error?

I already answered this question back in post #836.
Here it is again, since you seem to have forgotten . . .

According to the scholars at Biblical Hermeneutics Stack Exchange:

"The Greek word κεχαριτωμένη (kecharitōmenē) is the word of contention here as regards translation differences. And it is has much to do with the theology of the translator, but only to a degree—no translations of it have been strictly wrong or right since only dynamic translations (“full of..,” “highly..” etc.) are really possible with such a grammatically rich word. That is, it is difficult to render a single Greek word so rich in meaning (grammatically) into an equivalent word in English: in fact, that is arguably impossible (without being a very ugly translation)."

Jerome used "Gratia plena" (full of grace) and the editors of the KJV used "thou that art highly favoured".
NEITHER is a decent translation of Kecharitomene - although Jerome's comes closer to the truth. They were simply attempts at simplifying what is described above as trying to render a single word "so rich in meaning" to an rquvalent qord in English or Latin.

The Bible wasn't written in English, Einstein.
Pay attention . . .