No authority!

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

BreadOfLife

Well-Known Member
Jan 2, 2017
21,656
3,591
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
All believers have the 'kecharitomne' of God's grace. It is not unique to Mary alone.

But I'm guessing that even though this is clear in scripture you have a way to make it so Mary's 'kecharitomne' is different than ours, right?
That's absolutely false and based on the 16th century Protestant invention of OSAS.
Besides - Kecharitomene was Mary's conditon BEFORE Christ came into the world.

The Scriptures are blindingly clear that we can LOSE our security by our own doing - and repeatedly WARN Christians about this very thing . . .
Matt. 7:19-23, Matt. 10:22, Matt. 24:13, Matt. 25:31–46, John 15:1-6, Rom. 11:22, 1 Cor. 4:4, 1 Cor. 9:27, 1 Cor. 10:12, 1 Tim. 4:1, 1 Tim. 4:16, 2 Tim. 2:12, Heb. 3:6, Heb. 3:12-14, Heb 6:4-6, Heb. 10:26-27, 2 Pet. 2:20-21, 2 Pet. 3:17, 1 John 2:24, 1 John 5:13, Rev. 3:5, Rev. 22:19
 
Last edited:

BreadOfLife

Well-Known Member
Jan 2, 2017
21,656
3,591
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
If any source gave the information that Wikipedia gives on Pope Loe X, you would call it an unreliable source, and anti-Christian.
Of course it is unreliable and anti-Christian...because it gives accurate information that contradicts your viewpoint!
You choose to continue to be blind and you justify your continued blindness by calling relliable sources biased.
No - it's just that a REAL historical source would give the historical documenbtation in the footnotes.
Can you supply me with that from Wikipedia?

Yeah - I didn't think so . . .
Heb 10:14, For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
CONTEXT, sparky. you always forget about CONTEXT . . .

ALL of the following verses are warnings to Born Again Christians to keep from falling back into a life of sin or they will LOSE their seure position:

Romans 11:22
“See, then, the kindness and severity of God: severity toward those who fell, but God's kindness to you, provided you REMAIN in his kindness; otherwise you to will be cut off.”
Paul is warning the faithful to REMAIN in God’s favor or they will lose their salvation. How can they lose what they never had?

Hebrews 10:26-27
“If we sin deliberately AFTER receiving KNOWLEDGE of the truth, there no longer remains sacrifice for sins but a fearful prospect of judgment and a flaming fire that is going to consume the adversaries.”
This is a clear warning that falling away from God will result in the loss of our salvation. The Greek ford for “knowledge” used here is NOT the usual word (oida). This is talking about a full, experiential knowledge (epignosei). This verse is about CHRISTIANS who had an EPIGNOSIS of Christ and who can fall back into darkness and LOSE their salvation by their own doing.

2 Peter 2:20-22
For if they, having escaped the defilements of the world through the KNOWLEDGE of our Lord and savior Jesus Christ, again become entangled and overcome by them, their last condition is worse than their first.
For it would have been better for them not to have KNOWN the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment handed down to them.

Here, Peter illustrates that those who had a full, experiential knowledge (epignosei) of Christ – CHRISTIANS – who can fall back into darkness and LOSE their salvation by their own doing.

Matt. 5:13
You are the salt of the earth. But if salt loses its taste, with what can it be seasoned? It is no longer good for anything but to be thrown out and trampled underfoot.
This one is self-explanatory . . .

1 Cor. 9:27
"I pummel my body and subdue it, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified."
Paul is saying that he wrestles with his own fleshly desires so that he might not fall back into sin.

2 Peter 3:17

Therefore, dear friends, since you already know this, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of lawless men and fall from your secure position.
Peter is warning the faithful not to fall back into sin and lawlessness.

1 John 2:24
See that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. IF it does, you also will REMAIN in the Son and in the Father.
This is an admonition to try to remain faithful.

Rev. 3:5
He who overcomes will, like them, be dressed in white. I will never blot out his name from the book of life, but will acknowledge his name before my Father and his angels.
God cannot blot out a name that was never there in the first place.
He is talking about CHRISTIANS who are already saved and how they can LOSE their salvation.


Rev. 22:19
And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.
How can God “take away” somebody’s “share” of heaven if they never had it to begin with?
This is about CHRISTIANS who may or may NOT make it into Heaven.
 

BreadOfLife

Well-Known Member
Jan 2, 2017
21,656
3,591
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Luke 1:
[28] And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.

Appears, the translators forgot to list, completely, perfectly, enduringly, endowed with grace.

Appears, the translators forgot to even once use this supposed TITLE in any mention of Mary.

Very odd.

David had a TITLE of king.
King David is specifically mentioned 36 times in Scripture.

Jesus had a TITLE of Christ.
Christ Jesus is specifically mentioned 58 times in Scripture.

Mary supposedly has the TITLE Kecharitomene and is mentioned
Kecharitomene Mary, 0 times in Scripture.

What is your "source" that determined a TITLE for Mary, not found in Scripture?
It's called "GREEK" - which is the language that the NT was written in.
You shoud know this.

English:
"Greetings, favored one."

Greek
χαῖρε, κεχαριτωμένη
("Greetings, Kechritomene.")


Sorry to be the one to have to break this to you but - the Bible wasn't written in English . . .
 

justbyfaith

Well-Known Member
Jun 28, 2018
21,740
4,118
113
52
San Pedro
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
No - it's just that a REAL historical source would give the historical documenbtation in the footnotes.
Can you supply me with that from Wikipedia?

Yeah - I didn't think so . . .

Wikipedia is a reliable source of information according to most people...

But I can see why you would reject it as such because they have reported information that doesn't tickle your ears like what you might hear from a source that has been corrupted by Roman media.

CONTEXT, sparky. you always forget about CONTEXT . . .

ALL of the following verses are warnings to Born Again Christians to keep from falling back into a life of sin or they will LOSE their seure position:

Romans 11:22
“See, then, the kindness and severity of God: severity toward those who fell, but God's kindness to you, provided you REMAIN in his kindness; otherwise you to will be cut off.”
Paul is warning the faithful to REMAIN in God’s favor or they will lose their salvation. How can they lose what they never had?

Hebrews 10:26-27
“If we sin deliberately AFTER receiving KNOWLEDGE of the truth, there no longer remains sacrifice for sins but a fearful prospect of judgment and a flaming fire that is going to consume the adversaries.”
This is a clear warning that falling away from God will result in the loss of our salvation. The Greek ford for “knowledge” used here is NOT the usual word (oida). This is talking about a full, experiential knowledge (epignosei). This verse is about CHRISTIANS who had an EPIGNOSIS of Christ and who can fall back into darkness and LOSE their salvation by their own doing.


2 Peter 2:20-22
For if they, having escaped the defilements of the world through the KNOWLEDGE of our Lord and savior Jesus Christ, again become entangled and overcome by them, their last condition is worse than their first.
For it would have been better for them not to have KNOWN the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment handed down to them.

Here, Peter illustrates that those who had a full, experiential knowledge (epignosei) of Christ – CHRISTIANS – who can fall back into darkness and LOSE their salvation by their own doing.

Matt. 5:13
You are the salt of the earth. But if salt loses its taste, with what can it be seasoned? It is no longer good for anything but to be thrown out and trampled underfoot.
This one is self-explanatory . . .

1 Cor. 9:27
"I pummel my body and subdue it, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified."
Paul is saying that he wrestles with his own fleshly desires so that he might not fall back into sin.

2 Peter 3:17

Therefore, dear friends, since you already know this, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of lawless men and fall from your secure position.
Peter is warning the faithful not to fall back into sin and lawlessness.

1 John 2:24
See that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. IF it does, you also will REMAIN in the Son and in the Father.
This is an admonition to try to remain faithful.

Rev. 3:5
He who overcomes will, like them, be dressed in white. I will never blot out his name from the book of life, but will acknowledge his name before my Father and his angels.
God cannot blot out a name that was never there in the first place.
He is talking about CHRISTIANS who are already saved and how they can LOSE their salvation.


Rev. 22:19
And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.
How can God “take away” somebody’s “share” of heaven if they never had it to begin with?
This is about CHRISTIANS who may or may NOT make it into Heaven.

And the point that I was making had nothing to do with the concept of eternal security. But apparently that verse struck a nerve. Perhaps the words "for ever" got you?

The point that I was making is that sanctified Christians do have that term applied to them that you mentioned was only true of Mary. I am going to have to go back a few posts and retrieve it because I forgot what it was...but the verse in question definitely shows that the terminology applies to sanctified believers and that Mary is not the only one.

Yet NONE of us is "Kecharitomene".
 

BreadOfLife

Well-Known Member
Jan 2, 2017
21,656
3,591
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
What does OSAS have to do with this, lol?
Because you are claiming that ALL Christians are "completely, perfectly and enduringly" endowed with grace, making them Kecharitomene.
This is false. Besides - only those in Heaven are "completely" endowed with grace.

Oh, uhhh . . . "LOL".
 

BreadOfLife

Well-Known Member
Jan 2, 2017
21,656
3,591
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Wikipedia is a reliable source of information according to most people...

But I can see why you would reject it as such because they have reported information that doesn't tickle your ears like what you might hear from a source that has been corrupted by Roman media.
Like I told you - I rejected YOUR use of it because you FAILED to produce documented proof of Leo X promulgating the selling of Indulgences like you claimed.

So - either you LIED - or you were misinformed by Wikipedia.
Take your pick . . .
And the point that I was making had nothing to do with the concept of eternal security. But apparently that verse struck a nerve.

The point that I was making is that sanctified Christians do have that term applied to them that you mentioned was only true of Mary. I am going to have to go back a few posts and retrieve it because I forgot what it was...but the verse in question definitely shows that the terminology applies to sanctified believers and that Mary is not the only one.
I suggest you read my response in post #766 - which smashes that theory . . .
 

justbyfaith

Well-Known Member
Jun 28, 2018
21,740
4,118
113
52
San Pedro
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I suggest you read my response in post #766 - which smashes that theory . . .

post #766:
Because you are claiming that ALL Christians are "completely, perfectly and enduringly" endowed with grace, making them Kecharitomene.
This is false. Besides - only those in Heaven are "completely" endowed with grace.

Oh, uhhh . . . "LOL".
How does that smash my understanding?

You have only expressed your disagreement and yet, have not provided any substantiation that supports your disagreement.
 

justbyfaith

Well-Known Member
Jun 28, 2018
21,740
4,118
113
52
San Pedro
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Those on earth can have everlasting life from the moment of first faith (John 5:24 (kjv)).

Jhn 5:24, Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
 
  • Like
Reactions: amigo de christo

justbyfaith

Well-Known Member
Jun 28, 2018
21,740
4,118
113
52
San Pedro
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Like I told you - I rejected YOUR use of it because you FAILED to produce documented proof of Leo X promulgating the selling of Indulgences like you claimed.

So - either you LIED - or you were misinformed by Wikipedia.
Take your pick . . .
The documented proof is in the source Wikipedia...Wikipedia is the document.

But I understand why you reject it as a credible source...because it condemns your understanding.

That doesn't change the fact that it is accepted widely as a credible source.
 

Ferris Bueller

Well-Known Member
Sep 9, 2020
9,979
4,552
113
Middle South
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Because you are claiming that ALL Christians are "completely, perfectly and enduringly" endowed with grace, making them Kecharitomene.
This is false. Besides - only those in Heaven are "completely" endowed with grace.

Oh, uhhh . . . "LOL".
Ephesians 1:6
 

amigo de christo

Well-Known Member
Sep 12, 2020
29,886
50,655
113
53
San angelo
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
All these things you say bro Amigo, should be told to everyone we know, especially un believers so that when things really start to happen, they will remember, ;)
Yes dear sister , how lovely it would be if all just focused on Christ and thus that means learn the biblical one .
Staying in doctrine . keeping the original pattern true . OH what joy it would be . But tears just well up
when all i see is folks fighting over years and years of mens doctrines . like calvin and rome and etc
What peace and beauty and upmost joy could be found and is found when true believers who hold on to Christ do meet
and read bibles and pray together . And are hearers and doers of the word .
Men destroyed such a simple walk .
OH but JESUS can set one straight again . YES HE CAN . AND ITS ALL JOY to have all HOPE in HE ALONE . OH let the LORD be praised .
 

amigo de christo

Well-Known Member
Sep 12, 2020
29,886
50,655
113
53
San angelo
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Those on earth can have everlasting life from the moment of first faith (John 5:24 (kjv)).

Jhn 5:24, Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
not just can ........THEY DO . OH let the glorious Lord be praised . Yea , i say let the LORD be praised .
 

amigo de christo

Well-Known Member
Sep 12, 2020
29,886
50,655
113
53
San angelo
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
But as james said , and i once lived it , If one has lip service only , yeah its dead faith .
See , once upon a time i lived in sin , yet could still say Jesus is savoir . WELL HE IS , but at that time I had not submitted
anything unto HIM . I had heard the gospel , but yeah i was living it up in sin . I didnt know HIM . PRAISE GOD
for GRACE that truly drew me to Him . And that grace , True birth , yeah that changes the heart direction .
Now leap up and praise the glorious Lord .
And let us exhort one another daily , lest any does become hardened through the decietfulness of sin .
My friends , IF we say we are OF HIM , then we walk as DID HE . IF HE abides in us , we follow the SPIRIT .
And if we see error in any brethren , we correct it fast . Let us learn to love every word in that bible .
 
  • Like
Reactions: justbyfaith

Wrangler

Well-Known Member
Feb 14, 2021
18,228
7,599
113
56
Shining City on a Hill
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
The Jehovah's Witnesses changed John 1:1 to make it fit their made-in-America doctrines. That's not you, is it?

No. John 1:1 has been debunked as supporting trinitarianism over and over again.

 

Illuminator

Well-Known Member
Jan 11, 2020
3,389
1,198
113
73
Hamilton
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
All these things you say bro Amigo, should be told to everyone we know, especially un believers so that when things really start to happen, they will remember, ;)
"when things really start to happen"? It's already happening.

EQUALITY ACT IS ANTI-CHRISTIAN

According to House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, the Equality Act is “about ending discrimination”; President Joe Biden agrees. That may be its intent, but its effect is to promote the most comprehensive assault on Christianity ever written into law.

This explains why the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops has been fighting this proposed law for years. Most recently it said the Equality Act “would discriminate against people of faith.” The Catholic League and many other civil rights and religious organizations have also sounded the alarm.

The Equality Act has two major goals: it would amend the 1964 Civil Rights Act to include sexual orientation and gender identity to the definition of sex; it would also undermine the Religious Freedom Restoration Act by allowing gay rights to trump religious rights.

The 1964 Civil Rights Act was primarily motivated by a desire to end racial segregation. It banned discrimination based on race, sex or national origin. That was it. It said absolutely nothing about sexual orientation, and it certainly didn’t address transgender rights—it wasn’t even a concept in the 1960s. Adding sexual orientation and gender identity to this law not only violates the intent of the legislation, it unduly burdens houses of worship and other religious organizations.

In order to end racial segregation, the 1964 Civil Rights Act banned discrimination in public accommodations. Blacks had historically been denied services in many public facilities, ranging from diners to hotels. The Equality Act goes way beyond this, so much so that it disfigures the meaning of this historic 1964 law.

The Equality Act not only covers homosexuals and transgender persons, it expands public accommodations to include consumer services such as healthcare. In practice this would be a disaster. It would mean, for example, that healthcare providers would be forced to provide hormone therapies and surgical procedures that are required to change the physical characteristics associated with sex changes.

One does not have to be a Catholic healthcare practitioner to register moral and religious objections to this “healthcare” initiative. Will anyone be allowed to voice objections to these procedures, pointing out the long-term physical and mental problems associated with sex reassignment? What about parents who learn that their child wants to switch his or her sex? Will their rights be respected or eviscerated?

It has become increasingly clear that the expansion of rights to transgender women—really biological males who identify as female—has come at the expense of rights for biological females. Take sports.

Boys and men would be allowed to compete in sports with girls and women, thus unfairly altering women’s athletics. Females would also lose their privacy rights. These biological males can use the locker rooms, restrooms and shower facilities that have always been reserved for females. None of this has anything to do with why the 1964 Civil Rights Act was passed. There are other problems with this bill that alone should be enough to stop it from ever becoming law.

In 1993, Rep. Nancy Pelosi and Sen. Chuck Schumer co-sponsored the Religious Freedom Restoration Act (RFRA); it was signed by President Bill Clinton. This was a major victory for religious liberty. But now Pelosi and Schumer regret their vote, even to the point of supporting the Equality Act, knowing full well that it exempts itself from RFRA! This is perverse. There could be no more serious undercutting of religious liberty than what they are proposing.

It would mean that Catholics, evangelicals, Orthodox Jews, Mormons, Muslims and many other religious communities could not raise religious liberty objections to any of the aforementioned rights of transgender women. In effect, religious entities would be secularized.

For example, if the Equality Act were to become law, Catholic foster care programs would be shut down. They would either have to agree to allow two men to adopt children—a clear violation of Church teachings—or lose federal funding. This is the kind of “gotcha” type element that makes this bill so pernicious.

Currently, Catholic hospitals can legally refuse to perform abortions. Under the Equality Act, they would either lose federal funding or be forced to get into the abortion business. That is because refusing abortion services would be declared “pregnancy” discrimination.

Without the religious liberty protections afforded by RFRA, virtually every religious institution—from houses of worship to schools—would be expected to fall in line with this radical legislation. Catholic schools, for instance, would be expected to change their teachings on sexual ethics to suit the radical LGBT agenda.

It is hard for the public to understand, especially Catholics, why such allegedly “devout Catholics” as Biden and Pelosi would want to champion such patently anti-Christian legislation as the Equality Act.

We are contacting the entire Congress. You can help by contacting the following:

Megan Miller: [email protected]

Michelle Altman: [email protected]

Miller works for Rep. Steve Scalise, the House Majority Whip who is organizing Republican opposition to the bill. Altman works for Sen. James Lankford; he has been a consistent critic of the bill.

EQUALITY ACT IS ANTI-CHRISTIAN
 

justbyfaith

Well-Known Member
Jun 28, 2018
21,740
4,118
113
52
San Pedro
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
No. John 1:1 has been debunked as supporting trinitarianism over and over again.

That merely provides an alternate interpretation to how we would interpret it normally and does not actually refute the Trinitarian interpretation.

It should be clear that Jesus was referring to Exodus 3:14 when He said,

Jhn 8:24, I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I AM, ye shall die in your sins.

Exo 3:14, And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.


The speaker in the video also provides an alternate interpretation as to how we normally perceive the concept that Jesus Christ (the Word) is come in the flesh. He in fact denies that Jesus is the Word become flesh and in this, he identifies himself as having the spirit of antichrist (1 John 4:1-3, 2 John 1:7).
 

Wrangler

Well-Known Member
Feb 14, 2021
18,228
7,599
113
56
Shining City on a Hill
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
That merely provides an alternate interpretation to how we would interpret it normally and does not actually refute the Trinitarian interpretation.

Pray tell, what would refute the Trinitarian interpretation in your estimation?

'For Us, There is One God, the Father.'
1 Corinthians 8:6
 

amigo de christo

Well-Known Member
Sep 12, 2020
29,886
50,655
113
53
San angelo
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Yeah that equality act is right from the powers of darkness all right .
Let the lambs prepare for persecutions to increase .
Having all hope On CHRIST . He will be with us no matter what we suffer .
Let the glorious Lord be praised .
 
  • Like
Reactions: Illuminator