No authority!

[theefaith]

What is your point?
You don't have a Bible?
You can not read?
Someone must select the passages for you and read them to you?

how funny?
Eph 4:5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism
Thee faith is divine revelation Jn 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

Jesus is the truth and He must teach us!

 

[theefaith]

The finished work of Christ is referring to his finished work of redemption when he offered his own blood on the altar in heaven.

11Day after day every priest stands and performs his religious duties; again and again he offers the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. 12But when this priest had offered for all time one sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God... Hebrewds 10:11-12​

That work is done. Finished. Completed. Unlike the long succession of Levitical priests who had to continually offer new sacrifices, their work never being done, because their ministry and sacrifice did not last and could not complete anything. There was always another sacrifice to be made. But Christ, on the other hand, is not busy continually being re-sacrificed. That work is DONE. It got done one time for all time for all people. Now what happens is many appeals go out to the one and only finished Sacrifice, always there in heaven before the Father ready to complete a redemptive work for another soul on earth who will put their faith in it.

Offering of the liturgy!
The holy sacrifice of Jesus Christ!
Luke 22:19 “do this in memory of me”!


The Passover
(The new covenant Passover sacrifice of Christ)

“It is finished” not the redemptive work of Christ but the Passover sacrifice!

The cup refers to the Passover
The sacrifice prefigured the sacrifice of Christ
Christ was celebrating the Passover and changing it into the new covenant Passover in his own body and blood
Began in the last supper with the psalm then to the garden and ended with his death in the cross with the words commanded to be said at the consummation of the Passover sacrifice by the high priest “IT IS FINISHED”!!!

jn 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

1 cor 10:16 The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ?

1 cor 11:23 For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, that the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread:

24 And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.

25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, this cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.

26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.
Notice the connection to his betrayal and death

1 cor 5:6-8
For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us: Therefore let us keep the feast

So
The Passover
(The new covenant Passover sacrifice of Christ)


The cup refers to the Passover
The sacrifice prefigured the sacrifice of Christ
Christ was celebrating the Passover and changing it into the new covenant Passover in his own body and blood
Began in the last supper with the psalm then to the garden and ended with his death in the cross with the words commanded to be said at the consummation of the Passover sacrifice by the high priest “IT IS FINISHED”!!!

jn 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

1 cor 10:16 The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ?

1 cor 11:23 For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, that the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread:

24 And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.

25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, this cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.

26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.
Notice the connection to his betrayal and death

1 cor 5:6-8
For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us: Therefore let us keep the feast

So the it in “it is finished” is not the work of redemption but the Passover sacrifice!

but something is missing we have to eat the lamb

jn 6:53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.

54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

55 For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.

56 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.

57 As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.

“It is finished” the Passover sacrifice!
Consummation of the new Passover or the beginning of the new and eternal covenant!

 

[theefaith]

Mary entering her cousins house and greeting her...such as;"Hello Elisabeth"...
Is "HOW you found Salvation"?

Luke 1:40
[40] And entered into the house of Zacharias, and saluted Elisabeth.

Wow- sorry but that is one of the corniest doctrines, I have ever heard!

Who is the author of "that" doctrine?
Because Jesus' doctrine says nothing like that.

Rom 10:
[10] For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

sorry Lk 1:30

 

[theefaith]

Every believer is gifted with some level of ministry to build the body up. Some hold official offices of ministry. Others simply share what they have learned. Together we teach each other and build the body up into the stature of Christ.

14I myself am convinced, my brothers and sisters, that you yourselves are full of goodness, filled with knowledge and competent to instruct one another. Romans 15:14​

And, ultimately, we have the anointing of the Holy Spirit to tell who's full of hot air and who's speaking truth. We don't need no pope to tell us that!

Just as you want us to understand why you believe what you do, so maybe you can now begin to see why we believe what we believe and reject the teachings of the Catholic church.

there is only one minister in the true church founded by Christ on Peter
That of the apostle

 

[theefaith]

WHAT?

Mary consented to YOUR Salvation?

Reading comprehension appears amiss in your education.

Luke 1:
[38] And Mary said, Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word. And the angel departed from her.

yes consented

 

[theefaith]

And I know Mary looks down and weeps at the idolatry pointed towards her!

In order to show more clearly the purity of the honor which holy Church pays to the most Blessed Virgin, I will mention two contrary heresies, both equally injurious to the veneration deservedly due to Our Lady, One you of the heresies sinned by excess:
calling Mary the Goddess of Heaven, and offering sacrifices to her as such ; the other sinned by default, condemning all honour paid to Her.

The Church, who walks in the royal
road of moderation, in which virtue consists, condemned both these heresies, defining against the
former that no worship, sacrifice, or adoration whatever could be offered to Mary, as she was a pure creature ; and against the latter, that this holy Virgin, being Mother of God the Son, was worthy of special worship, infinitely less than that of her Son, but incomparably
greater than that of all the other Saints. To the first, she says, that the Virgin is simply a creature, yet so holy, so perfect, so closely united to her Son, and so much loved by God, as to render it impossible to love the Son sincerely without loving and honouring the Mother. To the second, she
says, sacrifice is the supreme worship of latria, due to the Creator alone, and the Blessed Virgin is simply a creature, although most excellent. In deed, in speaking of Mary, I call her more the creature of God and of her Son than the rest of creation ; because God created greater perfections in her than in all other creatures, and she had a greater share in the Redemption than all others, being rescued not only from sin but from the power and inclination to sin. And who does not know that it is a greater benefit to rescue a person from slavery before he is made a slave, than to deliver
him after he has become captive ! How far are we then from placing the Son and the Mother on an equality, as our adversaries falsely assert ?
It is true that we call her beautiful, and the most beautiful amongst creatures ; but she is beautyful as the moon, which receives its light from the sun ; because all her glory is communicated to her by her Son. Of herself alone, she is certainly unworthy of our worship, for she is not God. But when the great sign of reconciliation between God and men came and rested upon this holy Virgin by His grace in her Immaculate Conception, and after wards at the Incarnation, when God became her Son, and reposed in her immaculate bosom then, indeed, so great became the fragrance of this
Virgin that no other plant ever could produce before God so sweet and pleasing an odour. Nor will He ever reject the prayers that are perfumed
in this fragrance. We repeat that all this perfume came to her from her Divine Son. Jesus Christ is our Advocate, and so is Mary; but with this difference!
In right of justice, the Saviour is alone our Advocate, because when He pleads our cause He justifies His petition by show
ing His Blood and His Cross. And Mary by Her prayers intercedes with Her beloved Son on our behalf! Mother of our salvation! Lk 2:30

 

[Ronald Nolette]

This is a perverted teaching.

We are all INDIVIDUALLY responsible for our sin.
We cannot blame a nation for having sinned on our behalf.

Thats what the pharisees thought as well, and they were just as wqrong as you.

You rproblem is you look at Scripture with only Gentile eyes and have learned not to look at things in context and literally.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

You were a nominal Catholic who left the Catholic Church because of ignorance - and nothing more.

Judging by the asinine things you claim inb your posts - you know almost NOTHING about what the Church teaches and I've proven you wrong on just about EVERY point.
So in short - NO, you don't know what you speak of.

wow you just joined the ranks of many others here who really suck at knowing my life. No you vomit out the standard Catholic apologetic against its own sins.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

In order to show more clearly the purity of the honor which holy Church pays to the most Blessed Virgin, I will mention two contrary heresies, both equally injurious to the veneration deservedly due to Our Lady, One you of the heresies sinned by excess:
calling Mary the Goddess of Heaven, and offering sacrifices to her as such ; the other sinned by default, condemning all honour paid to Her.

The Church, who walks in the royal
road of moderation, in which virtue consists, condemned both these heresies, defining against the
former that no worship, sacrifice, or adoration whatever could be offered to Mary, as she was a pure creature ; and against the latter, that this holy Virgin, being Mother of God the Son, was worthy of special worship, infinitely less than that of her Son, but incomparably
greater than that of all the other Saints. To the first, she says, that the Virgin is simply a creature, yet so holy, so perfect, so closely united to her Son, and so much loved by God, as to render it impossible to love the Son sincerely without loving and honouring the Mother. To the second, she
says, sacrifice is the supreme worship of latria, due to the Creator alone, and the Blessed Virgin is simply a creature, although most excellent. In deed, in speaking of Mary, I call her more the creature of God and of her Son than the rest of creation ; because God created greater perfections in her than in all other creatures, and she had a greater share in the Redemption than all others, being rescued not only from sin but from the power and inclination to sin. And who does not know that it is a greater benefit to rescue a person from slavery before he is made a slave, than to deliver
him after he has become captive ! How far are we then from placing the Son and the Mother on an equality, as our adversaries falsely assert ?
It is true that we call her beautiful, and the most beautiful amongst creatures ; but she is beautyful as the moon, which receives its light from the sun ; because all her glory is communicated to her by her Son. Of herself alone, she is certainly unworthy of our worship, for she is not God. But when the great sign of reconciliation between God and men came and rested upon this holy Virgin by His grace in her Immaculate Conception, and after wards at the Incarnation, when God became her Son, and reposed in her immaculate bosom then, indeed, so great became the fragrance of this
Virgin that no other plant ever could produce before God so sweet and pleasing an odour. Nor will He ever reject the prayers that are perfumed
in this fragrance. We repeat that all this perfume came to her from her Divine Son. Jesus Christ is our Advocate, and so is Mary; but with this difference!
In right of justice, the Saviour is alone our Advocate, because when He pleads our cause He justifies His petition by show
ing His Blood and His Cross. And Mary by Her prayers intercedes with Her beloved Son on our behalf! Mother of our salvation! Lk 2:30

If God wished Mary to be worshipped as the RCC does and be co-redemptrix, co-Mediatrix, He would have included it in SCripture! He didn't so you shouldn't either.

 

[CadyandZoe]

What does this have to do with debunking Alexander Hislop's manure?
Absolutely nothing. It's just anothr pathetic anti-Catholic dodge.

Besides - virtuall all Protestant denomoinationsare plagued with pedophiles as well.
Does that mean that YOUR sect doesn't teach the truth?

As you can see, this isn't a "Catholic" problem - but a SOCIETAL one . . .
Evangelicals ‘worse’ than Catholics on sexual abuse
Evangelical Sex Abuse Record ‘Worse’ Than Catholic, Says Billy Graham’s Grandson
Protestant Churches Grapple With Growing Sexual Abuse Crisis : NPR
Protestants can no longer dismiss abuse as a ‘Catholic problem’
Child Sex Abuse More Prevalent Among Protestants Than Among Catholics
There Is More Sexual Abuse In The Protestant Churches Than Catholic
Catholic priests no guiltier of sex abuse than other clergy
Data Shed Light on Child Sexual Abuse by Protestant Clergy

I'm not impressed by your grade-school "school-yard" logic. Just because one person does something wrong doesn't make it okay for someone else.

You miss the point entirely. Any so-called "authority", claiming to have divine guidance with regard to belief and practice, allowing the clergy to not only practice pedophilia but also covers it up, is not worthy to be called a moral authority. If you can't see this, then pray for enlightenment.

 

[theefaith]

I read fine. 'and their successors' is not in the text.

As you said in your other post, Jesus is our teacher. Jesus is our only mediator to God. We don't need the church. 1 Corinthians 11:3 does not include church in the hierarchy.

Must explain the whole thing again
Jesus is the mediator of Justice
But all who are in union with Jesus and therefore communion with each other can pray for each other
And in the ministry of the Passover sacrifice there must be a hierarchy of ministers with Christ as the high priest

 

[theefaith]

Offering of the liturgy!
The holy sacrifice of Jesus Christ!
Luke 22:19 “do this in memory of me”!


The Passover
(The new covenant Passover sacrifice of Christ)

“It is finished” not the redemptive work of Christ but the Passover sacrifice!

The cup refers to the Passover
The sacrifice prefigured the sacrifice of Christ
Christ was celebrating the Passover and changing it into the new covenant Passover in his own body and blood
Began in the last supper with the psalm then to the garden and ended with his death in the cross with the words commanded to be said at the consummation of the Passover sacrifice by the high priest “IT IS FINISHED”!!!

jn 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

1 cor 10:16 The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ?

1 cor 11:23 For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, that the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread:

24 And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.

25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, this cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.

26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.
Notice the connection to his betrayal and death

1 cor 5:6-8
For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us: Therefore let us keep the feast

So
The Passover
(The new covenant Passover sacrifice of Christ)


The cup refers to the Passover
The sacrifice prefigured the sacrifice of Christ
Christ was celebrating the Passover and changing it into the new covenant Passover in his own body and blood
Began in the last supper with the psalm then to the garden and ended with his death in the cross with the words commanded to be said at the consummation of the Passover sacrifice by the high priest “IT IS FINISHED”!!!

jn 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

1 cor 10:16 The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ?

1 cor 11:23 For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, that the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread:

24 And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.

25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, this cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.

26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.
Notice the connection to his betrayal and death

1 cor 5:6-8
For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us: Therefore let us keep the feast

So the it in “it is finished” is not the work of redemption but the Passover sacrifice!

but something is missing we have to eat the lamb

jn 6:53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.

54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

55 For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.

56 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.

57 As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.

“It is finished” the Passover sacrifice!
Consummation of the new Passover or the beginning of the new and eternal covenant!

 

[theefaith]

Life of supernatural grace merited by Christ in His passion and death!

An oath to sacramental life in the new covenant in union with the mediator and communion with God, and the saints!

Promise of the Father acts 2:23-39
Promise is an oath and an oath is a sacrament! This promise of the sacrament of baptism refers to ez. 36:25-27

1 Pet 3:20
Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark all died and outside the church there is no salvation!)

Jn 1:5-5 abide in Him, apart from Him you can do nothing.

God provides for everything:
John 14:6
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

He is the way we must follow!
He is the truth we must believe!
He is the life, life of grace thru the sacraments of the church in which we must live!

Abide in Christ and His church with grace and life provided by God thru the sacraments!

Sacramental life: Jn 1:16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace. Jn 10:10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

 

[theefaith]

Thats what the pharisees thought as well, and they were just as wqrong as you.

You rproblem is you look at Scripture with only Gentile eyes and have learned not to look at things in context and literally.

show me how the sacred “context” of John 1 makes Jesus not the word???

 

[theefaith]

wow you just joined the ranks of many others here who really suck at knowing my life. No you vomit out the standard Catholic apologetic against its own sins.

charity folks:
1 Peter 4:8
And above all things have fervent charity among yourselves: for charity shall cover the multitude of sins.
(Even above “Faith alone”?)

 

[theefaith]

If God wished Mary to be worshipped as the RCC does and be co-redemptrix, co-Mediatrix, He would have included it in SCripture! He didn't so you shouldn't either.

please I double dare you to show where the church TEACHES the worship of Mary!

 

[Ronald Nolette]

show me how the sacred “context” of John 1 makes Jesus not the word???

I wasn't writing to you. Learn the context of the conversation between Bread of Life and myself before you butt in.

 

[theefaith]

I wasn't writing to you. Learn the context of the conversation between Bread of Life and myself before you butt in.

butt in? This is my thread!

 

[Ronald Nolette]

In order to show more clearly the purity of the honor which holy Church pays to the most Blessed Virgin, I will mention two contrary heresies, both equally injurious to the veneration deservedly due to Our Lady, One you of the heresies sinned by excess:
calling Mary the Goddess of Heaven, and offering sacrifices to her as such ; the other sinned by default, condemning all honour paid to Her.

The Church, who walks in the royal
road of moderation, in which virtue consists, condemned both these heresies, defining against the
former that no worship, sacrifice, or adoration whatever could be offered to Mary, as she was a pure creature ; and against the latter, that this holy Virgin, being Mother of God the Son, was worthy of special worship, infinitely less than that of her Son, but incomparably
greater than that of all the other Saints. To the first, she says, that the Virgin is simply a creature, yet so holy, so perfect, so closely united to her Son, and so much loved by God, as to render it impossible to love the Son sincerely without loving and honouring the Mother. To the second, she
says, sacrifice is the supreme worship of latria, due to the Creator alone, and the Blessed Virgin is simply a creature, although most excellent. In deed, in speaking of Mary, I call her more the creature of God and of her Son than the rest of creation ; because God created greater perfections in her than in all other creatures, and she had a greater share in the Redemption than all others, being rescued not only from sin but from the power and inclination to sin. And who does not know that it is a greater benefit to rescue a person from slavery before he is made a slave, than to deliver
him after he has become captive ! How far are we then from placing the Son and the Mother on an equality, as our adversaries falsely assert ?
It is true that we call her beautiful, and the most beautiful amongst creatures ; but she is beautyful as the moon, which receives its light from the sun ; because all her glory is communicated to her by her Son. Of herself alone, she is certainly unworthy of our worship, for she is not God. But when the great sign of reconciliation between God and men came and rested upon this holy Virgin by His grace in her Immaculate Conception, and after wards at the Incarnation, when God became her Son, and reposed in her immaculate bosom then, indeed, so great became the fragrance of this
Virgin that no other plant ever could produce before God so sweet and pleasing an odour. Nor will He ever reject the prayers that are perfumed
in this fragrance. We repeat that all this perfume came to her from her Divine Son. Jesus Christ is our Advocate, and so is Mary; but with this difference!
In right of justice, the Saviour is alone our Advocate, because when He pleads our cause He justifies His petition by show
ing His Blood and His Cross. And Mary by Her prayers intercedes with Her beloved Son on our behalf! Mother of our salvation! Lk 2:30

Just so you know- Teh early church didn't venerate Martry. Teh first time she was mentioned in any liturgical sense was in the 3rd Century by Hippolytus.

Feasts and celebrations of her didn't begin until the ourth century- after Constantine opened the flood gates for pagan thought to creep into the church!

 

[Ferris Bueller]

there is only one minister in the true church founded by Christ on Peter
That of the apostle

That defies the description of the temple of God given in scripture. Peter says the Chief Shepherd is Christ, and he calls himself a fellow elder, not THE elder. And so we non-Catholics follow that model—the scriptural one. Not your model where Peter, then successive individuals holding the Catholic created office of the Pope are the sole foundation of the church.

The foundation is and always will be the the prophets and the apostles. And all the rest of us, regardless of our office and calling and gifting are built on top of that already established foundation. Christ being, both, the capstone and the cornerstone of that building. The Catholics created a distorted, non-Biblical model of the building and temple of God.

 

[theefaith]

Just so you know- Teh early church didn't venerate Martry. Teh first time she was mentioned in any liturgical sense was in the 3rd Century by Hippolytus.

Feasts and celebrations of her didn't begin until the ourth century- after Constantine opened the flood gates for pagan thought to creep into the church!

Oh I know! They were good Protestants back then, then of course there was the great Roman persecution but that should not get in the way of Mary worship.

Irenaeus was a student of Polycarp, who was a student of John the Apostle. That's about as early as you can get. We would say this statement is well beyond the limitations that our Evangelical friend has placed on the Fathers. We'd also clarify, when they said she was a virgin, the Early Fathers believed her to be "ever-virgin" all her life. Also our friend said they believed "she bore God. " It would be more accurate to say they believed her to be the "Mother of God." She was not some kind of surrogate mother that God used like an incubator for his Son. It was the "Mother of God" dogma that defeated the heresy of Nestorias.