No authority!

[theefaith]

Luke 1:
[28] And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.

Appears, the translators forgot to list, completely, perfectly, enduringly, endowed with grace.

Appears, the translators forgot to even once use this supposed TITLE in any mention of Mary.

Very odd.

David had a TITLE of king.
King David is specifically mentioned 36 times in Scripture.

Jesus had a TITLE of Christ.
Christ Jesus is specifically mentioned 58 times in Scripture.

Mary supposedly has the TITLE Kecharitomene and is mentioned
Kecharitomene Mary, 0 times in Scripture.

What is your "source" that determined a TITLE for Mary, not found in Scripture?

Queen of heaven
In the line of david’s kingdom the mother of the king is always queen
Jesus is king Lk 1:32-33
And king of heaven so Mary is queen of heaven

A Royal greeting!

Lk 1:28 is the only place in the Bible where such a greeting takes place!
Mary is of the tribe of Judah and the royal house of David the king!

God himself is greeting Mary thru the instrument of the angel Gabriel!

This is a Royal greeting of the queen of heaven and earth! Queen of the angels and saints! Mary is of the house of king David!

In the line of king David the mother of the king is the queen, as Jesus Christ is the king of heaven and earth and the angels and saints so Mary is the queen of the same! Lk 1:32-33

Lk 1:28 And the angel entered to her, and said, Hail, full of grace; the Lord is with thee; blessed be thou among women.
29 And when she had heard, she was troubled in his word, and thought what manner salutation this was.
30 And the angel said to her, Dread thou not, Mary, for thou hast found grace with God.

Mary is queen in rev 12:1 and heb 4:16
Mother of divine grace

 

[theefaith]

Queen

THE Holy Church justly honors the great Virgin Mary, and would have her honored by all men with the glorious title of queen, because she has been elevated to the dignity of mother of the King of kings. If the Son is king, says St. Athan- asius, his mother must necessarily be considered and entitled queen. From the moment that Mary consented, adds St. Bernardine of Sienna, to become the mother of the Eternal Word, she merited the title of queen of the world and all creatures. f If the flesh of Mary, says St. Arnold, abbot, was the flesh of Jesus, how can the moth er be separated from the Son in his kingdom?

The eternal Father constituted Jesus Christ king of justice, and therefore made him the universal judge of the world; hence the prophet sang: & “Give to the king thy judgment, Oh God; and to the king s son thy justice.” Here a learned interpreter takes up the subject, and says: Oh Lord, thou hast given to thy Son thy justice, because thou hast given to the mother of the king thy mercy And St. Bonaventure happily varies the passage above quoted by saying: Givetothekingthyjudgment,OhGod, and to his mother thy mercy. || Ernest, Arch bishop of Prague, also says, that the eternal Father has given to the Son the office of judging and punishing, and to the mother the office of
* Regnum Dei consistit in potestate et misericordia; potestateDeo remanente, cessit quodammodo misericordise pars matri regnanti. Psal. iii. Tr. 4th, S. Magn.
t Quando filium Dei in utero concepit, et post modum peperit, dimidiam pattern regni Dei impetravit, ut ipsa sit regina misericordiae, nt Christus est rex justitiae.
Deus judicium tuum regi da; et justitiam tuam filio regis. Peal. fexi. 2.5 QuiamisericordiamtuamdedistiMatriRegi.
Deus judicium tuum regi da, et misericordiam tuam matri
Ijus.

 

[Wrangler]

They are Paul's words. Augustine is wrong. I do not question your experience or the power you witnessed. All I'm saying is that you make a mistake to support your experience with Hebrews 4.

I'll trust my own experience with the HS, the pastor and Saint Augustine over your authority. Thanks!

 

[Taken]

He was a doctor of the church

What's the "criteria"?
You said:

your not authorized to make your own doctrine

But "some people are authorized to make their own doctrine" ?

 

[Wrangler]

The upshot of it all is that indulgences are still available if certain rites, days, jubilees, prayers, pilgrimages etc etc are observed. Salvation is still for sale.

This reminds me of the Europeans who bought Long Island New York for ~$15 in beads. For a long time, many condemned the natives for undervaluing the property. Turns out, the did not own the land they 'sold.'

A church selling salvation is like that.

 

[theefaith]

I'll trust my own experience with the HS, the pastor and Saint Augustine over your authority. Thanks!

can you please restate your positions so a pea brain like me can understand?

 

[theefaith]

What's the "criteria"?
You said:



But "some people are authorized to make their own doctrine" ?

no one is authorized to make doctrine!
Doctrine must be revealed by God!
And taught by the church
And he is a bishop therefore an apostle authorized to teach divine revelation

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Yet NONE of us is "Kecharitomene".
Mary is the ONLY one in ALL of Scripture who is given this title (Luke 1:28).

Kecharitomene is defined as: "Completely, perfectly, enduringly endowed with grace".
It indicates a completed action with a PERMANENT result.”

So, "all believers" are NOT Kecharitomene.

All believers have the 'kecharitomne' of God's grace. It is not unique to Mary alone.

Ephesians 1:6

But I'm guessing that even though this is clear in scripture you have a way to make it so Mary's 'kecharitomne' is different than ours, right?

 

[theefaith]

This reminds me of the Europeans who bought Long Island New York for ~$15 in beads. For a long time, many condemned the natives for undervaluing the property. Turns out, the did not own the land they 'sold.'

A church selling salvation is like that.

For the last time indulgences have nothing to do with SALVATION!

 

[theefaith]

All believers have the 'kecharitomne' of God's grace. It is not unique to Mary alone.

Ephesians 1:6

But I'm guessing that even though this is clear in scripture you have a way to make it so Mary's 'kecharitomne' is different than ours, right?

only that Mary found this grace for us
Lk 1:30
Mother of divine grace and the throne of grace Heb 4:16

 

[Ferris Bueller]

no one is authorized to make doctrine!
Doctrine must be revealed by God!
And taught by the church
And he is a bishop therefore an apostle authorized to teach divine revelation

Nobody is authorized to write their own doctrine. But everyone is authorized to discern true doctrine. We don't need a pope to tell us what is truth and what is not. That was the failure of the old covenant. God's people did not have the Holy Spirit to tell them what teaching of their leaders was truth and what was not. But that authority has come to all of God's people with the New Covenant because all of God's people have the Holy Spirit now.

27And as for you, the anointing you received from Him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. 1 John 2:27
​

All believers have this anointing. We've been delivered from the days when God's people were at the mercy of misguided and evil leaders who told us what to believe. The Catholic church has retained that old system of the leadership telling you what is truth and what is not instead of you being able to discern that for yourself.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

only that Mary found this grace for us
Lk 1:30
Mother of divine grace and the throne of grace Heb 4:16

I thought Jesus did that.

...we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2 through whom we have gained access by faith into this grace Romans 5:1-2​

I'm pretty sure Mary had nothing to do with that. Mary contributes nothing to the redemptive work of Christ on the altar in heaven. The completed work of redemption at the altar in heaven is Christ's completed work and his work alone.

 

[Wrangler]

can you please restate your positions so a pea brain like me can understand?

LOL. My position is the Word of God is alive.

Once you wrap your mind around that, recognize it’s powerful figurative language is not only true in context but out of context, put into the context of a living believer.

The pastor of my Bible Study was fond of quoting the 1st 4 words of the Bible. In the beginning, God. The truth of this has many applications, not just the context it was communicated to Moses.

Another example is how NT characters had to explain to the audience how OT verses apply to their day.

IMO, if you are limiting your take of Scripture to literal-only, you are like the iceberg. 10% above the water. 90% below the water. You are missing the glory and majesty of God’s Word.

 

[theefaith]

Nobody is authorized to write their own doctrine. But everyone is authorized to discern true doctrine. We don't need a pope to tell us what is truth and what is not. That was the failure of the old covenant. God's people did not have the Holy Spirit to tell them what teaching of their leaders was truth and what was not. But that authority has come to all of God's people with the New Covenant because all of God's people have the Holy Spirit now.

27And as for you, the anointing you received from Him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. 1 John 2:27
​

All believers have this anointing. We've been delivered from the days when God's people were at the mercy of misguided and evil leaders who told us what to believe. The Catholic church has retained that old system of the leadership telling you what is truth and what is not instead of you being able to discern that for yourself.

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 acts 9 eph 2:20

Lk 10:16
He who hears you hears me...

John 13:20
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.

Jesus Christ does not abandon His holy bride! Matt 28:19-20 with His church (apostles) till the end!

 

[theefaith]

I thought Jesus did that.

...we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2 through whom we have gained access by faith into this grace Romans 5:1-2​

I'm pretty sure Mary had nothing to do with that. Mary contributes nothing to the redemptive work of Christ on the altar in heaven. The completed work of redemption at the altar in heaven is Christ's completed work and his work alone.

mother of our salvation Lk 2:30
Mary gave the savior to the world

 

[theefaith]

I thought Jesus did that.

...we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2 through whom we have gained access by faith into this grace Romans 5:1-2​

I'm pretty sure Mary had nothing to do with that. Mary contributes nothing to the redemptive work of Christ on the altar in heaven. The completed work of redemption at the altar in heaven is Christ's completed work and his work alone.

And there no such thing as the “finished work of Christ” Christ continues His ministry and mission thru the church He founded on Peter and the apostles and their successors

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 acts 9 eph 2:20

 

[theefaith]

LOL. My position is the Word of God is alive.

Once you wrap your mind around that, recognize it’s powerful figurative language is not only true in context but out of context, put into the context of a living believer.

The pastor of my Bible Study was fond of quoting the 1st 4 words of the Bible. In the beginning, God. The truth of this has many applications, not just the context it was communicated to Moses.

Another example is how NT characters had to explain to the audience how OT verses apply to their day.

IMO, if you are limiting your take of Scripture to literal-only, you are like the iceberg. 10% above the water. 90% below the water. You are missing the glory and majesty of God’s Word.

we must be instructed Lk 1:4 matt 28:19 eph 4:5 Jude 1:3

 

[Wrangler]

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter

Ridiculous. Peter is just a man and a dead one at that. Not too much work so dead men do.

 

[Wrangler]

we must be instructed Lk 1:4 matt 28:19 eph 4:5 Jude 1:3

That’s your Appeal to Strawman to the Word is Alive, that we have to be instructed?! The HS of God is not an adequate teacher?!

 

[Wrangler]

mother of our salvation Lk 2:30
Mary gave the savior to the world

Was he hers to give?