No authority!

[Paul Christensen]

Well, you are partially right. You are wrong in that Pope Francis made this ruling. As you previously stated, of which you apparently forgot, it was in the Council of Trent document. Pope Francis wasn't at the Council of Trent. He only reiterated a long held teaching of The Church. One that Paul agreed with

Why do you have a problem with The Church agreeing with Scripture???

Wasn't it the same Paul who wrote about false teachers in the church "forbidding to marry"? And that he taught that bishops should be the husband of one wife?

He also said that bishops should be blameless. Does that mean that the adulterous popes of Catholic church history should have been fired? And what about the wives who warned each other about a randy regional bishop who didn't have any trouble jumping into bed with married women? And how about the homosexual priests at the Vatican having regular gay orgies, and widespread fornication between priests and nuns? If Paul said that blamelessness is the qualification of bishops and priests (who have taken over from early church elders), then shouldn't they have been defrocked for adultery, fornication, having "love" illegitimate children (which a number of popes had), pedophilia, and homosexual activity?

You talked about Protestant churches being just as bad. In one Anglican church I was at, the Sunday School superintendent starting living with a widow with six children, outside of marriage. He was stood down until he sorted out his domestic affairs. In another church, and elder was caught in a gay encounter and he was immediately stood down. So, in all the churches I have been a part of, the leadership would never have put up with adultery, fornication, pedophilia or homosexual activity.

 

[BreadOfLife]

The RCC Council of Trent clearly teaches that those who depend on Christ alone through faith for salvation are to be condemned to hell. This is why those who are RC think that they will be the only ones in heaven.

This is a LIE of gargantuan proportions.

Don't you fear God?
WHY then, would you blatantly LIE and bear false witness - when HE forbids it (Exod. 20:16)?

 

[BreadOfLife]

You are asking the wrong question.
What you should be asking is, "How can I better exemplify the virtues of Jesus Christ as I live my life?"

By exposing false teachers and preachers like yourself and others here - I'm doing precisly that.

I've warned you MANY times before - if you don't like being exposed, then don't lie.
It's that simple.

 

[justbyfaith]

According to your theory the gates of hell prevailed against The Church in the 4th century. According to Scripture the gates of hell will not....well, you know the rest.

And of course the gates of hell did not prevail against the true church even though they prevailed against the organization that was identified as the Catholic Church.

For the true church consists of all those who believe in Jesus for their salvation along with what He did for them on the Cross.

Ok dodge ball......sooooo Did the Spirit tell you which church is The Church spoken of in Scripture? Or did the Spirit only give you a partial truth???

Patient and curious Mary

Yes, He has shown in the holy scriptures that the church, the body of Christ, consists of all those who believe in Him for salvation along with what He did for them on the Cross.

By exposing false teachers and preachers like yourself and others here - I'm doing precisly that.

I've warned you MANY times before - if you don't like being exposed, then don't lie.
It's that simple.

1) You have not "exposed" me as a false teacher or preacher; and,

2) When have I ever lied on these forums? (I know I am opening up a can of worms here; but I think that your accusation of me as a liar is unfounded in anything that I may have said). Please note that I define lying here as a deliberate telling of a falsehood.

 

[marksman]

the was founded first dan 2:44 Matt 16:18

the was founded first?????????

 

[Ronald Nolette]

The RCC Council of Trent clearly teaches that those who depend on Christ alone through faith for salvation are to be condemned to hell. This is why those who are RC think that they will be the only ones in heaven.

Well Pope Francis recently opened the door for HIndus, Muslims, Buddhists, Gays etc. Maybe us Christians who are not RC are th eonly ones they think won't make it anymore. Don't know.

 

[Marymog]

And of course the gates of hell did not prevail against the true church even though they prevailed against the organization that was identified as the Catholic Church.....

Thanks JBF,

What or who is "the true church"? I don't know what that means!

How did the gates of hell prevail against the Catholic Church? What event(s) happened that indicate that?

 

[Marymog]

Yes, He has shown in the holy scriptures that the church, the body of Christ, consists of all those who believe in Him for salvation along with what He did for them on the Cross....

Well, that's YOUR interpretation of Scripture. Or did the Spirit reveal this to you?

Since your interpretation is that the church "consists of all those who believe in Him for salvation" who do we go to so we can fulfill Matthew 18:17? How do we track down all of those people?

 

[theefaith]

NO it has to be applied by faith if one wishes to obey God as the Scriptures declare!

no one ever denies faith!
“Faith alone” cult is denied! Yes
But not faith!
Mk 16:16 he who believes (faith) AND is baptized (sacraments) shall be saved!
Got it

 

[theefaith]

the was founded first?????????

The church was founded first and wrote the scripture and says what is and what is not scripture and only the church has the authentic interpretation

 

[Ronald Nolette]

no one ever denies faith!
“Faith alone” cult is denied! Yes
But not faith!
Mk 16:16 he who believes (faith) AND is baptized (sacraments) shall be saved!
Got it

Yes and that is not water baptism but the baptiwm of the Spirit.

Water baptism is for believers only. IOW someone who is already saved! Read your bible. YOu get saved and then you get baptized.

Ephesians 2:8-9
King James Version

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Romans 10:9
King James Version

9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Luke 23:43
And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise.

No mention of baptism to the penitnet thief!

 

[Marymog]

Oh come on! I thought you were more intelligent than that! Don't you really know that excommunication from the "true" church (ie: the RCC) means (to them) that the person has nowhere else to go but hell?

Are you joking...really???

And you still didn't quote the Council of Trent where it said that The Church teaches that "those who depend on Christ alone through faith for salvation are to be condemned to hell".

Soooooo now you want to tell me what The Church teaches about excommunication? Is that the rabbit hole we are going down now? OK....I will follow you. Do some research and Please quote from any Catholic doctrine or The Catechism that supports your belief that excommunication from The Church means the person is going to hell.

I did my research. Here is what I found which proves you to, once again, be wrong.

Excommunication means that they are cut off from receiving the sacraments. It does not mean that the Church is condemning a person to hell. It is meant to inspire people to repent and be reconciled to the Church. Once reconciled to the Church, that person may again receive the sacraments. If an excommunicated person dies without being formally reconciled to the Church, they can be saved if they truly and sincerely repent all of their mortal sins before death.

If you find something different please let me know.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

The church was founded first and wrote the scripture and says what is and what is not scripture and only the church has the authentic interpretation

And every believer (not just a member of a sect) is part of the church.

The church has to preserve , protect and pass on the Word of God- not interpret it.

 

[Marymog]

I'll let your fingers do the walking - you can look it up on Google for yourself.

I think this is another case of you saying something that isn't true (like when you said all priests have to be celibate, council of Trent says xyz, excommunication means damned to hell) and you, once again, can't back it up.

You are the one who made the affirmative statement that Constantine introduce paganism into The Church but you want ME to prove you right by googling it (I prefer Bing)??? Hmmmmm.....

 

[theefaith]

Yes and that is not water baptism but the baptiwm of the Spirit.

Water baptism is for believers only. IOW someone who is already saved! Read your bible. YOu get saved and then you get baptized.

Ephesians 2:8-9
King James Version

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Romans 10:9
King James Version

9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Luke 23:43
And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise.

No mention of baptism to the penitnet thief!

eph refers to redemption not justification or salvation

the thief? Baptism was not required until the death of the savior

 

[theefaith]

And every believer (not just a member of a sect) is part of the church.

The church has to preserve , protect and pass on the Word of God- not interpret it.

please say you believe Joseph is the biological father of Jesus! Jn 1:45

Or is it interpretated to mean he is the father of Jesus, but the legal father!

 

[theefaith]

And every believer (not just a member of a sect) is part of the church.

The church has to preserve , protect and pass on the Word of God- not interpret it.

faith does not make you a member of the new covenant body of Christ church
Baptism does


1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Not a spiritual church
It is physically and spiritual
A body is physical
The body of Christ

Matt 5:14
Ye (the apostles/ the church) are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.
(There is only one church founded by Christ on Peter and the apostles and their successors!) Jn 10:16

 

[justbyfaith]

Thanks JBF,

What or who is "the true church"? I don't know what that means!

How did the gates of hell prevail against the Catholic Church? What event(s) happened that indicate that?

It consists of all those who have placed their faith in Jesus Christ for salvation.

Others have mentioned how the Catholic Church fell into disrepute so I don't feel the need to go into that here.

Well, that's YOUR interpretation of Scripture. Or did the Spirit reveal this to you?

Since your interpretation is that the church "consists of all those who believe in Him for salvation" who do we go to so we can fulfill Matthew 18:17? How do we track down all of those people?

Yes, the Holy Spirit revealed that to me.

Tracking down those people would be a hit and miss venture.

There is the invisible church; which consists of all those who have placed their faith in Jesus; and there is the visible church, which is the local congregation led by a pastor.

Matthew 18:17 would be something that is done within the visible church; but the invisible church is also involved.

In context, Jesus says that where two or three of you agree as touching anything that they shall ask for, it shall be done for them. This is in reference to people who believe in Jesus and who are His disciples.

So, if two or three agree on an excommunication, but only one of them is a real believer, that person would not really be excommunicated.

It would take two or three members of the real church to make such a thing stand before the Lord. And, again, the real church consists of those who have placed their faith in Jesus and what He did for them on the Cross; who also have a living faith that produces works (see 1 John 3:22).

 

[theefaith]

It consists of all those who have placed their faith in Jesus Christ for salvation.

Others have mentioned how the Catholic Church fell into disrepute so I don't feel the need to go into that here.



Yes, the Holy Spirit revealed that to me.

Tracking down those people would be a hit and miss venture.

There is the invisible church; which consists of all those who have placed their faith in Jesus; and there is the visible church, which is the local congregation led by a pastor.

Matthew 18:17 would be something that is done within the visible church; but the invisible church is also involved.

In context, Jesus says that where two or three of you agree as touching anything that they shall ask for, it shall be done for them. This is in reference to people who believe in Jesus and who are His disciples.

So, if two or three agree on an excommunication, but only one of them is a real believer, that person would not really be excommunicated.

It would take two or three members of the real church to make such a thing stand before the Lord. And, again, the real church consists of those who have placed their faith in Jesus and what He did for them on the Cross; who also have a living faith that produces works (see 1 John 3:22).

matt 16:18 gate of hell shall NOT prevail

 

[Paul Christensen]

Well Pope Francis recently opened the door for HIndus, Muslims, Buddhists, Gays etc. Maybe us Christians who are not RC are th eonly ones they think won't make it anymore. Don't know.

I guess he missed the verse, "I [Jesus] am the Way the Truth and the Life, and no one comes to the Father except by Me".