Netanyahu The False Prophet, Trump The AntiChrist?

[ewq1938]

Now you have demanded that must not dance around so much to avoid a simple question, yet you have made a claim that I am wrong but will not provide the scriptural evidence to show me where my understanding is wrong. You are the one who needs to stand up and put your reasoning forward to be judged.

No, I did not say you were wrong. I only asked you what evidence there was for thinking the two beasts are angelic host.

 

[quietthinker]

No, it is not guesswork, my understanding comes from an OT prophecy which mirrors the Armageddon judgement mention in Rev 16:12-16.

I have referenced it many times on this forum, but people want to just ignore it. The verses are Isaiah 24:21-22. It talks of the judgement of the heavenly hosts as well as the judgement of the kings of the earth and that they will be gathered together and imprisoned in a pit for many days to await the time of their punishment.

This means that Satan, the beasts and the Little Horn, called the False prophet in the NT, and the kings of the earth who have helped to trample God's sanctuary and his earthly hosts, Israel, will all go into the pit, i.e. the Bottomless pit, immediately after God has judged them.

I would also reference and Daniel 7:2 and 9-12 that the four winds of heaven, i.e. spiritual entities that can only be wicked fallen heavenly hosts are the beasts described in Daniel 7.

On this forum there are many funny explanations given by some members as to how this is not so based on their reading of the NT prophecies.

Now you have demanded that must not dance around so much to avoid a simple question, yet you have made a claim that I am wrong but will not provide the scriptural evidence to show me where my understanding is wrong. You are the one who needs to stand up and put your reasoning forward to be judged.

A question that needs to be asked is, do we interpret the NT by the OT or the OT by the NT? ie, Do we interpret the reality by the shadow or the shadow by the reality. Which authority stands paramount?
If that can be determined we might be well on the way to avoid the hotch-potch cobbling to suit various imagined agendas.

 

[Jay Ross]

A question that needs to be asked is, do we interpret the NT by the OT or the OT by the NT? ie, Do we interpret the reality by the shadow or the shadow by the reality. Which authority stands paramount?
If that can be determined we might be well on the way to avoid the hotch-potch cobbling to suit various imagined agendas.

I agree.

 

[quietthinker]

I agree.

If we say the reality trumps the shadow, ie the NT trumps the OT, further questions arise, for instance, what do we do with the shadow? It is clearly still of value as these are the scriptures Jesus used.....so how does it then fit?

 

[Jay Ross]

No, I did not say you were wrong. I only asked you what evidence there was for thinking the two beasts are angelic host.

My request for you to show with scripture why I was in error for my statement that the Beasts and the Little horn are wicked fallen heavenly hosts still stands. If you are not willing to provide your defence of why you believe that I am in error, then we will let the matter rest and I will walk away and smile at your display of being upset.

I can only assume that you have no response to my request for your scriptural evident that the beasts and the Little horn are not heavenly hosts.

 

[Jay Ross]

If we say the reality trumps the shadow, ie the NT trumps the OT, further questions arise, for instance, what do we do with the shadow? It is clearly still of value as these are the scriptures Jesus used.....so how does it then fit?

What if both the OT and NT passages support each other then which is the shadow and which trumps the other?

 

[quietthinker]

What if both the OT and NT passages support each other then which is the shadow and which trumps the other?

what would you say ...and why?

 

[ewq1938]

My request for you to show with scripture why I was in error for my statement that the Beasts and the Little horn are wicked fallen heavenly hosts still stands.

How many times do I have to say that I never said you were in error? Hopefully you ignore this and repeat your request.

 

[Jay Ross]

what would you say ...and why?

I have no need to ponder such a question as that.

 

[quietthinker]

I have no need to ponder such a question as that.

Ohhh, I'm surprised you would relinquish this opportunity Jay. Does it probe uncomfortably?

 

[Jay Ross]

Ohhh, I'm surprised you would relinquish this opportunity, Jay. Does it probe uncomfortably?

No.

 

[quietthinker]

No.

Then here is your opportunity to lay out your view

 

[quietthinker]

No.

I guess your reticence to go down the track of exploring where authority lies and the integrity of the theological structure you have built will not hold up under exploration/ scrutiny. I had figured as much.
It appears your preference is to dance around with ewq1938 on 'I said, you said' and so avoid anything of significance.

 

[The Light]

No. you did not disprove my understanding at all.

Certainly I did. You just cannot face the fact that scripture has proven you wrong. As the scripture says, the fallen angels do not come to the earth before the 6th seal. The beasts and false prophet are on the earth before the tribulation.

Secondly, if you can explain how the MAN of sin is a fallen angel that would be a feat.

All you did was present what you hoped was what the scriptures stated.

Pffff.

I was not been challenged by what you had posted.

No, it was no challenge at all. It was total destruction. There is not a chance that any of the beasts or the false prophet is a fallen angel.

If anything your post only confirmed what I hold to be the truth.

There is not a single thing in scripture that you can post to support your false conclusion. If you've got any scripture, whatsoever, please post it. I anticipate cricket on this.

 

[Jay Ross]

I guess your reticence to go down the track of exploring where authority lies and the integrity of the theological structure you have built will not hold up under exploration/ scrutiny.

No, that is not the case. When people attack what I have presented, it is usually too sure up their theological structures which in reality do not hold up under exploration or scrutiny.

I had figured as much.

If the beast(s) and the False Prophet/Little Horn are not wicked fallen heavenly hosts, then please present the scriptures that demonstrate that I am in error. Otherwise, you are being no better than the people who object to what I post by creating a disturbing noise. Have you considered what the entities of the four winds of heaven are that are referenced in Daniel 7:2 and Daniel 8:8 are actually heavenly hosts. Why in Isaiah 24:21 is God judging the heavenly hosts in this verse?

It appears your preference is to dance around with ewq1938 on 'I said, you said' and so avoid anything of significance.

Now with this statement are you doing anything of significance with respect to the heavenly hosts who are the actual beasts etc that Daniel is writing about in Daniel 7. Are you really any different to ewq1938.

 

[Douggg]

If the beast(s) and the False Prophet/Little Horn are not wicked fallen heavenly hosts, then please present the scriptures that demonstrate that I am in error

Jay, if the false prophet and little horn were fallen angels - the text would have said so.

 

[Jay Ross]

Certainly I did. You just cannot face the fact that scripture has proven you wrong. As the scripture says, the fallen angels do not come to the earth before the 6th seal. The beasts and false prophet are on the earth before the tribulation.

Secondly, if you can explain how the MAN of sin is a fallen angel that would be a feat.


Pffff.

No, it was no challenge at all. It was total destruction. There is not a chance that any of the beasts or the false prophet is a fallen angel.


There is not a single thing in scripture that you can post to support your false conclusion. If you've got any scripture, whatsoever, please post it. I anticipate cricket on this.

I assume that you are a little more practiced in the art of rebuttal without actual showing your evidence. You have made claims which have no bearing on proving that I am in error.

It seems to me that there is no scriptural evidence that you can use to rebut my conclusion that the beast(s) and the little horn/false prophet and Satan are wicked fallen heavenly hosts.

Claiming that I am wrong does not actually prove that I am wrong. You have not provided scriptural that conclusively shows my error in understanding what the scriptures state.

Goodbye

 

[quietthinker]

No, that is not the case. When people attack what I have presented, it is usually too sure up their theological structures which is reality do not hold up under exploration or scrutiny.


If the beast(s) and the False Prophet/Little Horn are not wicked fallen heavenly hosts, then please present the scriptures that demonstrate that I am in error. Otherwise, you are being no better than the people who object to what I post by creating a disturbing noise. Have you considered what the entities of the four winds of heaven are that are referenced in Daniel 7:2 and Daniel 8:8 are actually heavenly hosts. Why in Isaiah 24:21 is God judging the heavenly hosts in this verse?



Now with this statement are you doing anything of significance with respect to the heavenly hosts who are the actual beasts etc that Daniel is writing about in Daniel 7. Are you really any different to ewq1938.

This is all just a sidestep to the matter of where authority lies, Jay. It appears you want to thrash around the edges vaporising the core issues by unproductive yada yada.

 

[Douggg]

If the beast(s) and the False Prophet/Little Horn are not wicked fallen heavenly hosts, then please present the scriptures that demonstrate that I am in error. Otherwise, you are being no better than the people who object to what I post by creating a disturbing noise. Have you considered what the entities of the four winds of heaven are that are referenced in Daniel 7:2 and Daniel 8:8 are actually heavenly hosts. Why in Isaiah 24:21 is God judging the heavenly hosts in this verse?

Jay, if the little horn and the false prophet were fallen angels, then the text about them would have plainly stated so, but it does not.

 

[Jay Ross]

This is all just a sidestep to the matter of where authority lies, Jay. It appears you want to thrash around the edges vaporising the core issues by unproductive yada yada.

What are the core issues? Does not the SDA hate the RCC and if the RCC is not the False something/antichrist or other what theology does the SDA have left.

Just more of your unproductive yada yada