My Lord And Savior Is Not A "SISSIFIED NEEDY JESUS", But HE is a GOD of WRATH!!

[Renniks]

So, which view do you believe better describes the atonement of the Christ?

There is no one that adequately describes the atonement. Christ as Victor, as our substitution, as our ransom, all are equally true, plus more.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Not just through his word. Through many different means.
And why would you limit him to not speaking verbally? He certainly can if he wishes.

Then the scriptures are not sufficient my friend if you hold to that stance. I don’t have to have an experience to know my salvation is in His hands. I have His word to read and that’s all I need.

 

[Renniks]

Quickening is irresistible. The wind blows where it wishes(the Christ using the wind as to how the Spirit moves) and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit[John 3:8].

God doesn’t try anything my friend. He does as He pleases.

And what he pleases is to give men the choice of accepting or rejecting him.
There is always an " if"
Because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

 

[SovereignGrace]

There is no one that adequately describes the atonement. Christ as Victor, as our substitution, as our ransom, all are equally true, plus more.

Where do see penal substitution being insufficient?

 

[SovereignGrace]

And what he pleases is to give men the choice of accepting or rejecting him.
There is always an " if"
Because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

There is no if to John 3:8 my friend. Men exercise choices every day. But these choices are constrained by their nature. It’s like a man in a jail cell. He can freely move within those confines, but he can not choose to move outside of them unless someone frees him. Then, and only then, can they operate outside those confines. ”So if the Son makes you free, you will be free indeed.”[John 8:36] This also includes the will. He has to free the will of those who are enslaved to sin and Satan.

 

[Waiting on him]

I have never said that I was. God knows for each of us, but in spite of what people say, I believe it to be a rare person who knows he is before he reaches the end of his course. Consider the words of Apostle Paul:

"But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God" Acts 20:24

"For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand.
I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith:
Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing." II Tim 4:6-8

I am not Paul and I do not believe I am so close as that to my end. I have met only a couple of people who might be approaching where he was when he wrote those words. For me... I know that my fight, my course is not yet finished. I move on in surrender to Him until He tells me otherwise.

I like the humility in your answer, but can I ask, has He given you the power to forgive sins, if so would you forgive all Or would you pick and choose a hand full?
And in which scenario would He be made manifest?

Because the Son of God has The power to forgive sins.

 

[Waiting on him]

Please elaborate on this portion. I am unclear what your stating here. Thanks.

Do you have the power to become the son of God, if so what’s this power look like?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

The payment is made for all who accept it. A gift is not a gift if it can't be refused...

Matthew 5:22-24 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire. [23] Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee; [24] Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift.

 

[SovereignGrace]

And what he pleases is to give men the choice of accepting or rejecting him.
There is always an " if"
Because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

I, in no way, disagree with Romans 10:9-10 my friend. But earlier in that same book Paul wrote...

For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.[Romans 8:5-8]

Notice how he has both ppl groups in that passage. The unregenerate and regenerate.

The unregenerate are those who:
-Have their minds set upon the flesh(and I believe it’s to fulfill the lust of their flesh[Ephesians 2:3])
-Their minds are set on death
-They are hostile(an enmity{have an ill-will})with God
-Their minds are not able to subject themselves to God’s law

The regenerate are those who:
-Have their minds set upon the things of the Spirit
-Their minds are set upon life and peace
-They are no longer hostile with God
-Are subjected to God’s law

The unregenerate person will never confess the Christ as Lord and Savior as he, in this unregenerate state, hates Him.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Do you have the power to become the son of God, if so what’s this power look like?

No I do not have that power. That comes from God, per John 1:12.

 

[Waiting on him]

Matthew 5:22-24 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire. [23] Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee; [24] Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift.

In this Christ is made manifest.

 

[Waiting on him]

No I do not have that power. That comes from God, per John 1:12.

Thank you for your honesty.

 

[Renniks]

Then the scriptures are not sufficient my friend if you hold to that stance. I don’t have to have an experience to know my salvation is in His hands. I have His word to read and that’s all I need.

Sad. Because God promises that the holy spirit will indwell his followers. And the point isn't what you need anyway. Calvinists limit God with their demands then he doesn't get outside thier little box.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

There’s only one problem. There are none who understand, there are none who seek God[Romans 3:11]. :)

“All have gone out of the way” Romans 3:12-18 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one. [13] Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips: [14] Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness: [15] Their feet are swift to shed blood: [16] Destruction and misery are in their ways: [17] And the way of peace have they not known: [18] There is no fear of God before their eyes.

1) all gone out of the way
2)the way of peace have they not known.
3) there is no fear of God.

a period there, is neglecting His saying “I am the way” to walk in His ways and His thoughts, His Spirit and the end there of “the way” leads to Life. All the above is sin unto death. (Out of the way, unprofitable, deceit, poison of vipers, belly full of cursing conceiving chaff to be burned, swift to shed blood, the end thereof destruction of misery...having no fear of God). Are you also saying there is also no fear of God? Because is that true? Ephesians 5:21 Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God.

Colossians 3:22-23 Servants, obey in all things your masters according to the flesh; not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but in singleness of heart, fearing God: [23] And whatsoever ye do, do it heartily, as to the Lord, and not unto men;

 

[Renniks]

There is no if to John 3:8 my friend.

Yo might want to read it again. There is indeed an "if".

 

[Waiting on him]

Is Christ being made manifest, or theology?

 

[reformed1689]

I know from past experience that some people within your group believe it is OK to lie or deceive to further the work of God. Don't tell me this is not so for I saw worse things than this on another forum many years ago and the worst of lies were not told against me. But even when confronted with it the prevaricator would not repent.

Then charge the individual, not the group.

 

[Renniks]

Matthew 5:22-24 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire. [23] Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee; [24] Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift.

How does this even relate?

 

[Preacher4Truth]

No I do not have that power. That comes from God, per John 1:12.

John 1:13 answers as to why they did this; "Who were born..."

 

[SovereignGrace]

Is Christ being made manifest, or theology?

Both. Theology is literally the study of God. You can’t have one w/o t’other. :)