My Lord And Savior Is Not A "SISSIFIED NEEDY JESUS", But HE is a GOD of WRATH!!

[Jane_Doe22]

Is the Christ a created being?

No. Such is one of the many false things said about LDS Christians.

Christ has always existed. If you want, I can get paste a bunch of verses saying that when I get to my computer.

 

[SovereignGrace]

@Preacher4Truth , @SovereignGrace , @Anthony D'Arienzo , each of you profess that I am damned, yet none of you talk Christ with me or actually talk TO me. If you are actually concerned, then ditch your preconceptions and talk WITH me. No flaming, no fear, no what you’ve been told, no “anti-cult” lies. Talk WITH me about CHRIST.

The Christ said ”Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.”[John 8:24] If you believe He is a created being, then you do not believe He is who He is.

If you believe He is a created being, then you believe in a false Christ that can not save.

 

[Preacher4Truth]

Question.
Ive been talk to a Calvinist who says the If God has chosen a person to be he's saved, but if He hasn't chosen a person to be saved, Then he isn't.

My question is , to you or @Preacher4Truth here.
How do you ( Calvinists ) share the Gospel and find out IF a person is destined to be one of the saved ones.

If God has chosen someone here to be saved ( to be a Calvinist) why don't you guys seem to try and get them to se the truth...why only tell people that they are not chosen to be saved? How do you know?

This is not a 'tongue in cheek 'question but a genuine question. I don't know how you believe about that.

Using Jone Doe for instance, how would you know whether she is destined to chosen to become a Calvinist , say in a year or so?

I see Calvinists tell people how wrong they are , I can't remember seeing any of you ever trying to turn us from error, to what you believe to be correct belief.
So how do you share your truth with others?

We haven't told anyone they aren't chosen. I think you're not really reading but are instead jumping into threads with assumptions.

You've never seen us trying to turn others from error? That's what we do on here all day. I would be glad to help you but frankly all you've done Helen is ridicule and blindly support your friends, oblivious to or ignoring context, and on this basis making conclusions. But I am still willing to help anyone here including yourself. You can pm me if you'd like, I would be glad to help.

2 Timothy 2:8-10 should help you as well. Read and ponder it.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Sad thing about Jane is she thinks it's ok to believe whatever she wants, and ok for everyone else to believe whatever they want as well about Christ and the Gospel. This is done because she is fully aware that the Christ and gospel of Mormonism are not the Christ and Gospel of Scripture. She flat out denieS Christ is eternal, uncreated, YHWH, and that there are no other Gods beside him.

This is why she cowers and refuses to answer questions. 2 Corinthians 4:2 exposes this way of hiding beliefs as a telltale sign and earmark of false teachers. All true Gospel teachers are out in the open about their beliefs plus their teachings are sound in doctrine. She refuses to answer questions because she has much to hide.

More false witnesses.

I follow Christ. He is my king.

Talk Christ with me rather than this constant flaming.

 

[Helen]

I tell them that God sent His Son to come and live in the place of His ppl. He died for them, rose for them. I don’t sugarcoat it and say God loves them and has a wonderful plan for their lives. You will not find that quoted by the Christ, nor any of His Apostles. That outside of Him, they are lost and headed for hell. That repentance is required of all ppl, as a command from God. If they do not repent and believe the gospel, they will die in their sins and raise to be cast into an eternal hell.

Thank you for a nice serious response ..(one that even my tiny mind can understand ) :)

Quote - "That outside of Him, they are lost and headed for hell. That repentance is required of all ppl, as a command from God. If they do not repent and believe the gospel, they will die in their sins and raise to be cast into an eternal hell."

Okay, if I can ask another question.

Many of us on this Site would say amen to this statement, and totally agree...yet not be a Calvinist. I thought Calvinists believed that no other people were saved ....(including the Christians on here... )

How can you tell when a person is a Calvinist heart , yet he has never heard what they preach etc so he has not joined you denomination?

Hope you can understand what I am asking, I know that I don't say things very clearly.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Thank you for a nice serious response ..(one that even my tiny mind can understand ) :)

Quote - "That outside of Him, they are lost and headed for hell. That repentance is required of all ppl, as a command from God. If they do not repent and believe the gospel, they will die in their sins and raise to be cast into an eternal hell."

Okay, if I can ask another question.

Many of us on this Site would say amen to this statement, and totally agree...yet not be a Calvinist. I thought Calvinists believed that no other people were saved ....(including the Christians on here... )

How can you tell when a person is a Calvinist heart , yet he has never heard what they preach etc so he has not joined you denomination?

Hope you can understand what I am asking, I know that I don't say things very clearly.

Reading ppl posts gives me an idea of what they believe. I don’t wear my Calvinism on my sleeve, but I will defend my beliefs unto death, as I’m sure you would, too. I have many Brothers and Sisters around me I love dearly and they’re not Calvinists. In fact, they’re pretty close to Pelagianists. But they seem to wear God’s grace better than I do.

 

[Helen]

We haven't told anyone they aren't chosen. I think you're not really reading but are instead jumping into threads with assumptions.

You've never seen us trying to turn others from error? That's what we do on here all day. I would be glad to help you but frankly all you've done Helen is ridicule and blindly support your friends, oblivious to or ignoring context, and on this basis making conclusions. But I am still willing to help anyone here including yourself. You can pm me if you'd like, I would be glad to help.

2 Timothy 2:8-10 should help you as well. Read and ponder it.

Sorry my post annoyed you. But David Taylor on this Site , who changed his name to today to reformed1689 and claims to be a Calvinist ..(you can check out his posts if you haven't seen any.)

He has implied these things ..this morning he said God choses some for salvation and some He doesn't .
I have asked him questions, some he doesn't answer. That is why I have asked them here to you and Soverign

Never mind if you don't want to answer me.

 

[Helen]

Reading ppl posts gives me an idea of what they believe. I don’t wear my Calvinism on my sleeve, but I will defend my beliefs unto death, as I’m sure you would, too. I have many Brothers and Sisters around me I love dearly and they’re not Calvinists. In fact, they’re pretty close to Pelagianists. But they seem to wear God’s grace better than I do.

Thanks...I even have a couple of Catholic friends and we have fun ' arguing the point'.

 

[SovereignGrace]

More false witnesses.

I follow Christ. He is my king.

Talk Christ with me rather than this constant flaming.

I found these quite troubling...

• We believe the accounts of Jesus’ life and ministry recorded in Matthew, Mark, Luke and John in the New Testament to be historical and truthful. For us the Jesus of history is indeed the Christ of faith. While we do not believe the Bible to be inerrant, complete or the final word of God, we accept the essential details of the Gospels and more particularly the divine witness of those men who walked and talked with Him or were mentored by His chosen apostles.

• We believe Jesus is the Son of God the Father and as such inherited powers of godhood and divinity from His Father, including immortality, the capacity to live forever. While He walked the dusty road of Palestine as a man, He possessed the powers of a God and ministered as one having authority, including power over the elements and even power over life and death.

In an effort to satisfy the accusations of Jews who denounced the notion of three Gods (Father, Son and Holy Ghost) as polytheistic, and at the same time incorporate ancient but appealing Greek philosophical concepts of an all-powerful moving force in the universe, the Christian church began to redefine the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. One classic work describes the intersection of Christian theology and Greek philosophy: “It is impossible for any one, whether he be a student of history or no, to fail to notice a difference of both form and content between the sermons on the Mount and the Nicene Creed. … The one belongs to a world of Syrian peasants, the other to a world of Greek philosophers. … The religion which our Lord preached ... took the Jewish conception of a Father in heaven, and gave it a new meaning.” In short, “Greek Christianity of the fourth century was rooted in Hellenism. The Greek minds which had been ripening for Christianity had absorbed new ideas and new motives.”

What is the result? Such Platonic concepts as the immutability, impassibility and timelessness of God made their way into Christian theology. As one group of Evangelical scholars has stated: “Many Christians experience an inconsistency between their beliefs about the nature of God and their religious practice. For example, people who believe that God cannot change his mind sometimes pray in ways that would require God to do exactly that. And Christians who make use of the free will defense for the problem of evil sometimes ask God to get them a job or a spouse, or keep them from being harmed, implying that God should override the free will of others in order to achieve these ends. ...

“These inharmonious elements are the result of the coupling of biblical ideas about God with notions of the divine nature drawn from Greek thought. The inevitable encounter between biblical and classical thought in the early church generated many significant insights and helped Christianity evangelize pagan thought and culture. Along with the good, however, came a certain theological virus that infected the Christian doctrine of God, making it ill and creating the sorts of problems mentioned above. The virus so permeates Christian theology that some have come to take the illness for granted, attributing it to divine mystery, while others remain unaware of the infection altogether.”[ii]

Latter-day Saints believe that the simplest reading of the New Testament text produces the simplest conclusion — that the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost are separate and distinct personages, that They are one in purpose. We feel that the sheer preponderance of references in the Bible would lead an uninformed reader to the understanding that God the Father, Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost are separate beings. That is, one must look to the third- and fourth-century Christian church, not to the New Testament itself, to make a strong case for the Trinity.

They deny God is immutable, impassible and seems to even deny timeless. They alsso deny the Trinity as taught in the Bible.


What Mormons Believe About Jesus Christ

 

[SovereignGrace]

Plus, this is troubling..

“We believe Jesus is the Son of God the Father and as such inherited powers of godhood and divinity from His Father, including immortality, the capacity to live forever. While He walked the dusty road of Palestine as a man, He possessed the powers of a God and ministered as one having authority, including power over the elements and even power over life and death.”

He didn’t inherit any powers. He was born as the Son of God. This seems to teach He was a created being in their beliefs.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Sorry my post annoyed you. But David Taylor on this Site , who changed his name to today to reformed1689 and claims to be a Calvinist ..(you can check out his posts if you haven't seen any.)

He has implied these things ..this morning he said God choses some for salvation and some He doesn't .
I have asked him questions, some he doesn't answer. That is why I have asked them here to you and Soverign

Never mind if you don't want to answer me.

I agree with @reformed1689 that election took place before time began, as Ephesians 1:4 states,

 

[Helen]

Reading ppl posts gives me an idea of what they believe. I don’t wear my Calvinism on my sleeve, but I will defend my beliefs unto death, as I’m sure you would, too. I have many Brothers and Sisters around me I love dearly and they’re not Calvinists. In fact, they’re pretty close to Pelagianists. But they seem to wear God’s grace better than I do.

This Site can be very confusing ..on the thread Do you belong to "the [true] Church" (1 Tim 3:15)?, if so, how do you prove it? it is a Seventh Day Adventist thread.... we are all being told that if we are not in the SDA church then we are lost and in error..
I guess they would say the same about Calvinists ... :)

As Peter said to Jesus ..."who then can be saved?"

So I see , you guys on one side, the SDA on the other side , and Jane Doe who is a LDS, it could confused anyone! LOL

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Is the Christ a created being?

No. Such is one of the many false things said about LDS Christians.

Christ has always existed. If you want, I can get paste a bunch of verses saying that when I get to my computer.

Promised verses about Christ always have/is/will be. All quotes are from sources LDS Christians consider to be scripture, and links are clickable if you want to see context.


God, Eternal Nature of

• 
  eternal God is thy refuge, Deut. 33:27.
• from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God, Ps. 90:2.
• established of old: thou art from everlasting, Ps. 93:2.
• thou art the same, and thy years shall have no end, Ps. 102:27.
• Lord shall reign for ever, even thy God, Ps. 146:10.
• lofty One that inhabiteth eternity, Isa. 57:15.
• thy name is from everlasting, Isa. 63:16.
• I am the Lord, I change not, Mal. 3:6.

• being understood by … his eternal power and Godhead, Rom. 1:20.
• King eternal, immortal, invisible, 1 Tim. 1:17.
• Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever, Heb. 13:8 (Morm. 9:9; Moro. 10:7, 19; D&C 20:11–12).
• Alpha and Omega … the first and the last, Rev. 22:13.

• course of the Lord is one eternal round, 1 Ne. 10:19 (Alma 37:12; D&C 3:2; 35:1).
• one Eternal God, Alma 11:44.
• God … being from everlasting to everlasting, Moro. 7:22.

• I am endless, D&C 19:10.
• God in heaven, who is infinite and eternal, D&C 20:17.
• Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, D&C 38:1.
• From eternity to eternity he is the same, D&C 76:4.
• Eternal God of all other gods, D&C 121:32.

• Endless is my name; for I am without beginning of days or end, Moses 1:3.
• Endless and Eternal is my name, Moses 7:35.
  

 

[SovereignGrace]

This Site can be very confusing ..on the thread Do you belong to "the [true] Church" (1 Tim 3:15)?, if so, how do you prove it? it is a Seventh Day Adventist thread.... we are all being told that if we are not in the SDA church then we are lost and in error..
I guess they would say the same about Calvinists ... :)

As Peter said to Jesus ..."who then can be saved?"

So I see , you guys on one side, the SDA on the other side , and Jane Doe who is a LDS, it could confused anyone! LOL

Calvinists don’t claim non-Calvinists are saved just because they’re not Calvinists. That’s not true. Let me say some might say that, but most don’t.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Promised verses about Christ always have/is/will be. All quotes are from sources LDS Christians consider to be scripture, and links are clickable if you want to see context.


God, Eternal Nature of

• 
  eternal God is thy refuge, Deut. 33:27.
• from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God, Ps. 90:2.
• established of old: thou art from everlasting, Ps. 93:2.
• thou art the same, and thy years shall have no end, Ps. 102:27.
• Lord shall reign for ever, even thy God, Ps. 146:10.
• lofty One that inhabiteth eternity, Isa. 57:15.
• thy name is from everlasting, Isa. 63:16.
• I am the Lord, I change not, Mal. 3:6.

• being understood by … his eternal power and Godhead, Rom. 1:20.
• King eternal, immortal, invisible, 1 Tim. 1:17.
• Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever, Heb. 13:8 (Morm. 9:9; Moro. 10:7, 19; D&C 20:11–12).
• Alpha and Omega … the first and the last, Rev. 22:13.

• course of the Lord is one eternal round, 1 Ne. 10:19 (Alma 37:12; D&C 3:2; 35:1).
• one Eternal God, Alma 11:44.
• God … being from everlasting to everlasting, Moro. 7:22.

• I am endless, D&C 19:10.
• God in heaven, who is infinite and eternal, D&C 20:17.
• Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, D&C 38:1.
• From eternity to eternity he is the same, D&C 76:4.
• Eternal God of all other gods, D&C 121:32.

• Endless is my name; for I am without beginning of days or end, Moses 1:3.
• Endless and Eternal is my name, Moses 7:35.

But using the D&C, Alma, etc. is a no-no. What Joseph Smith did was add to the Bible.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

But using the D&C, Alma, etc. is a no-no. What Joseph Smith did was add to the Bible.

I'm just listing sources LDS Christians consider authoritative staying the eternal nature of God. If you want to stick personally to just the Bible ones, I totally acknowledge that and aren't remotely trying to change your mind.

 

[SovereignGrace]

I'm just listing sources LDS Christians consider authoritative staying the eternal nature of God. If you want to stick personally to just the Bible ones, I totally acknowledge that and aren't remotely trying to change your mind.

God can be a generic term to some. They can say God is eternal, but also say the Christ inherited powers of godhood and that makes Him a created being. He inherited nothing from God as He is God.

 

[Preacher4Truth]

Sorry my post annoyed you. But David Taylor on this Site , who changed his name to today to reformed1689 and claims to be a Calvinist ..(you can check out his posts if you haven't seen any.)

He has implied these things ..this morning he said God choses some for salvation and some He doesn't .
I have asked him questions, some he doesn't answer. That is why I have asked them here to you and Soverign

Never mind if you don't want to answer me.

No problem. I would be more than glad to answer questions you have. So, that said, I do want to answer you, openly, as per 2 Corinthians 4:2, and will not refuse to answer which are marks of impostors.

 

[reformed1689]

Sorry my post annoyed you. But David Taylor on this Site , who changed his name to today to reformed1689 and claims to be a Calvinist ..(you can check out his posts if you haven't seen any.)

He has implied these things ..this morning he said God choses some for salvation and some He doesn't .
I have asked him questions, some he doesn't answer. That is why I have asked them here to you and Soverign

Never mind if you don't want to answer me.

Helen I have answered your questions I think now. If I missed some let me know.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

God can be a generic term to some. They can say God is eternal, but also say the Christ inherited powers of godhood and that makes Him a created being. He inherited nothing from God as He is God.

I was/am actually working on my response to your larger quote, but I'll skip to that particular part-
The word "inheritance" here doesn't imply that one time that Christ didn't exist. Rather, it acknowledges the Father/Son relationship, and Christ bowing to the Father out off love and respect, and the Father's joy/honoring/celebrating that. The Bible itself uses refers to Christ as the heir of God in several places:

• We are the children of God, and if children, then heirs, heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ, Rom. 8:16–17
• Thou art a son, an heir of God through Christ, Gal. 4:7.
• God hath appointed his Son an heir of all things, Heb. 1:2.