Illuminator
Well-Known Member
The Church is BOTH physical and spiritual. Your Gnosticism doesn't fly. Neither does your Nestorianism.
Mother of Jesus?
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"theotokos", really?
Let us take a look at the scriptural (KJB) “Mary” [Matthew 1:16,18,20, 2:11, 13:55; Mark 6:3; Luke 1:27,30,34,38,39,41,46,56, 2:5,16,19,34; Acts 1:14], “the mother of Jesus” [John 2:1,3; Acts 1:14; see also “his mother” - Matthew 1:18, 2:11; Luke 2:34,43; John 19:25; and “mother” - also John 6:42] who was “espoused to Joseph”.
We are going to look at the scriptures in what they themselves have to say about her and what they do not say about her, for there is at this time a persistent theology which pervades much of the Christian world which claims to have support [from the Bible] for an idea that has been defined and termed as: “theotokos” [literally “God-Bearer”, or “one who gives birth to God” and/or also loosely given as “Mother of God”; being a “title”].
Let us look very closely at the scriptures to see if this “title” is accurate or is instead dangerous.
The first question that should be asked is this, “Is the “title” “theotokos” ever itself given anywhere at all in any of the Scriptures by anyone?” Search as we will, the answer comes back to us as a plain, “No.” Though not convincing in and of itself, let us remember this “silence” and come back to this point later.
The next question that should be asked is this, “Is Mary ever called by the appellation or designated with the title of “Mother of God” [“God” being the English for the Greek [Tr.] word “Theos”] anywhere at all in any of the Scriptures by anyone?” Search as we will, the answer comes back as before to us as a plain, “No.” Again not convincing in and of itself, but let us again remember also this “silence” and come back to this point later.
Let us now consider a few statements by the Roman Catholic theological position and teaching on this subject of the “theotokos”, for it is said that:
"… Elizabeth is the first to call Mary by her most honourable title "Mother of God …" [Roman Catholic Online Encyclopedia; “V”; "The Blessed Virgin Mary"; subsection “The Visitation”] - CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: The Blessed Virgin Mary
It is taught by outward (catechumen) Catholicism that she is not the 'mother of divinity' (well and good), yet there is more said inwardly by the dogma, with hints all over the place at something more, and even openly stated with more:
"… As Mary was truly the mother of Jesus, and as Jesus was truly God from the first moment of His conception, Mary is truly the mother of God. … Theotokos …" [Roman Catholic Online Encyclopedia; “V”; "The Blessed Virgin Mary"; subsection “Mary's divine motherhood”] - CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: The Blessed Virgin Mary
Let us look at the first quote again and ask yet another question. “Did Elizabeth [the cousin of Mary] ever call Mary by the “title” “Mother of God” in any part of the Scriptures?” Search as we will yet again, and the answer yet comes back to us as a plain, “No.”
Where then does the Roman Catholic theological position obtain the slightest ground from Scripture to say that Elizabeth says such?
Luke 1:43 is quoted, so we had better be careful to look at it:
Luke 1:43:
Luk 1:43 (KJB) And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?
Luk 1:43 (KJB w/ Strong's) AndG2532 whenceG4159 is thisG5124 to me,G3427 thatG2443 theG3588 motherG3384 of myG3450 LordG2962 should comeG2064 toG4314 me?G3165
Luk 1:43 (GNT TR) και ποθεν μοι τουτο ινα ελθη η μητηρ του κυριου μου προς με
Luk 1:43 (GNT TR w/ Strong's & Robinsons Codes) καιG2532 CONJ ποθενG4159 ADV-I μοιG1473 P-1DS τουτοG3778 D-NSN ιναG2443 CONJ ελθηG2064 V-2AAS-3S ηG3588 T-NSF μητηρG3384 N-NSF τουG3588 T-GSM κυριουG2962 N-GSM μουG1473 P-1GS προςG4314 PREP μεG1473 P-1AS
Luke 1:43 (Stephen's 1550 TR) kai poqen moi touto ina elqh h mhthr tou kuriou mou proV me
Luke 1:43 (Byzantine Majority TR) - kai poqen moi touto ina elqh h mhthr tou kuriou mou proV me
Luke 1:43 (Alexandrian Greek) - kai poqen moi touto ina elqh h mhthr tou kuriou mou proV eme
Luk 1:43 (Jerome's Latin Vulgate) et unde hoc mihi ut veniat mater Domini mei ad me
Luk 1:43 (Clementine Vulgate) Et unde hoc mihi ut veniat mater Domini mei ad me?
Luk 1:43 (Douay Rheims Jesuit) And whence is this to me that the mother of my Lord should come to me?
Luk 1:43 (KJB w/ Strong's) AndG2532 whenceG4159 is thisG5124 to me,G3427 thatG2443 theG3588 motherG3384 of myG3450 LordG2962 should comeG2064 toG4314 me?G3165
Luk 1:43 (GNT TR) και ποθεν μοι τουτο ινα ελθη η μητηρ του κυριου μου προς με
Luk 1:43 (GNT TR w/ Strong's & Robinsons Codes) καιG2532 CONJ ποθενG4159 ADV-I μοιG1473 P-1DS τουτοG3778 D-NSN ιναG2443 CONJ ελθηG2064 V-2AAS-3S ηG3588 T-NSF μητηρG3384 N-NSF τουG3588 T-GSM κυριουG2962 N-GSM μουG1473 P-1GS προςG4314 PREP μεG1473 P-1AS
Luke 1:43 (Stephen's 1550 TR) kai poqen moi touto ina elqh h mhthr tou kuriou mou proV me
Luke 1:43 (Byzantine Majority TR) - kai poqen moi touto ina elqh h mhthr tou kuriou mou proV me
Luke 1:43 (Alexandrian Greek) - kai poqen moi touto ina elqh h mhthr tou kuriou mou proV eme
Luk 1:43 (Jerome's Latin Vulgate) et unde hoc mihi ut veniat mater Domini mei ad me
Luk 1:43 (Clementine Vulgate) Et unde hoc mihi ut veniat mater Domini mei ad me?
Luk 1:43 (Douay Rheims Jesuit) And whence is this to me that the mother of my Lord should come to me?
There is not a single MSS/Codice/Papyri, etc, let alone a translation in English that reads "mother of God" or "mhthr tou theos" in Luke 1:43:
Luke 1:43 - Bible Gateway
Does the text read from the English or Tr. Greek that Mary was designated with the “title” “Mother of God” by Elizabeth? [Remember, we are looking for the words “mhthr tou theou mou” [Theos/God].]
The text obviously does not read the way it is claimed [intimated] that it does, for it plainly reads, “...mhthr tou kuriou mou...” [“...mother of my Lord...”]. This passage is supposed to be the strongest support pillar upholding the “theotokos” theological position, yet the pillar is non-existent, as is the word “theou”.
As we have seen by the Scriptures, Mary is called the “mother of Jesus” [John 2:1,3; Acts 1:14] but never once designated with the “title” “mother of God”.
It is not possible for Mary to be the "mother of God", since God exists eternally before her, and had no beginning, and is "without mother" (Hebrews 7:3, but even here 'catholics' will attempt something else, though they err in both) and is “...from everlasting...” [Micah 5:2;p etc] even “...to everlasting...” [Psalms 90:2;p etc] and also eternally existing with the “Father” [ref: John 1:1, 17:5].
To give the title “mother of God” to Mary is unbiblical, and she herself would have never have wanted it, being the humble handmaiden and servant of God. Many women, who believed in scripture, were blessed (Genesis 1:22, etc).
Jesus also later directly asks so that there was no confusion regarding His mission, "Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?" (Matthew 12:48; Mark 3:33)
Jesus tells us the answer to the question, "And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!" (Matthew 12:49; Mark 3:34)
Mary was not among them. She was outside, with Jesus stepbrothers (sons of Joseph) calling Him to come out because they believed he was possessed of devils, having believed the Pharisees reports (see context).
What does even the Angel Gabriel say in the Gospel of Luke?
Gabriel says of Mary, "... Mary: for thou hast found favour with God." (Luke 1:30) [many have found favour with God, for He is gracious, merciful, loving]
Gabriel says of Jesus, "...holy thing..." (Luke 1:35) (Compare Acts 4:27,30, "Holy Child Jesus")
What does Mary herself say?
Mary says of herself: "...Behold the handmaid of the Lord..." (Luke 1:38)
(""handmaid", "doulē", "δούλη", female - servant, slave, bondmaid, handmaid" (Strong's Concordance)),
"...My soul doth magnify the Lord..." (Luke 1:46) and "For he hath regarded the low estate of his handmaiden..." (Luke 1:48)
("low estate", "tapeinōsis", "ταπείνωσις", lowness, low estate, spiritual abasement, lamenting of moral littleness and guilt (Strong's Concordance))
Notice, of “moral littleness and guilt”.
What does Mary say of God, "...he that is mighty hath done to me great things; and holy (is) his name." (Luke 1:48).
1. We see that it is God who is great (Luke 1:32), not Mary.
2. We see that it is He that has accomplished (Luke 1:35, 'power of the Highest'), not Mary.
3. We see that it is God/Jesus that is Holy (Luke 1:35,48, 'that holy thing'; 'holy (is) his name'), not Mary.
4. We see that it is God that is magnified (Luke 1:46; 'My soul doth magnify the Lord'), not Mary.
5. We see that it is God who is exalted (Luke 1:32-33; 'of his kingdom there shall be no end'), and not Mary.
2. We see that it is He that has accomplished (Luke 1:35, 'power of the Highest'), not Mary.
3. We see that it is God/Jesus that is Holy (Luke 1:35,48, 'that holy thing'; 'holy (is) his name'), not Mary.
4. We see that it is God that is magnified (Luke 1:46; 'My soul doth magnify the Lord'), not Mary.
5. We see that it is God who is exalted (Luke 1:32-33; 'of his kingdom there shall be no end'), and not Mary.
Mary declares her low position while glorifying God in all things. Not once is she designated, 'mother of God' and not once is she called 'Holy Mary', but rather it is Christ Jesus, God the Father, Holy Ghost who are all explicitly called "Holy".
Mary specifically says that Jesus Christ is her 'Saviour', which means she was a sinner in need of salvation like everyone else:
"...my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour." (Luke 1:47) and we see that this is in the very context of her “moral littleness and guilt” [vs 48].
Let us continue further still. For we shall see that the so-called (Hyper Dulia) 'veneration' of Mary is usurping the worship of God:
It is written of Jesus:
"holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners" [Hebrews 7:26]
that "holy thing" [Luke 1:35]
and "holy child" [Acts 4:27,30]
born of the "Holy Ghost" [Matthew 1:18; Luke 1:35],
that "holy thing" [Luke 1:35]
and "holy child" [Acts 4:27,30]
born of the "Holy Ghost" [Matthew 1:18; Luke 1:35],
where even though He came in the likeness [Romans 8:3; Philippians 2:7; etc] of sinful flesh, yet He was without sin:
"... lamb shall be without blemish..." [Exodus 12:5]
"… But found none: yea, though many false witnesses came, yet found they none." [Matthew 26:60]
"... the innocent blood..." [Matthew 27:4]
"... For he knew that for envy they had delivered him. ..." [Matthew 27:18]
"… Have thou nothing to do with that just man …" [Matthew 27:19]
"… Why, what evil hath he done? …" [Matthew 27:23]
"… I am innocent of the blood of this just person …" [Matthew 27:24]
"The said Pilate … I find no fault in this man.” [Luke 23:4]
"… Said unto them, Ye have brought this man unto me, as one that perverteth the people: and, behold, I, having examined him before you, have found no fault in this man touching those things whereof ye accuse him:" [Luke 23:14]
"… what evil hath he done? I have found no cause of death in him ..." [Luke 23:22]
"... lo, nothing worthy of death is done unto him." [Luke 23:15]
"... this man hath done nothing amiss." [Luke 23:41]
"… Now when the centurion saw what was done, he glorified God, saying, Certainly this was a righteous man." [Luke 23:47]
"Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?" [John 8:46]
"... I have kept my Father's commandments ..." [John 15:10]
"... I find in him no fault [at all]." [John 18:38]
"... I find no fault in him." [John 19:4]
"... I find no fault in him." [John 19:6]
"... the obedience of one ..." [Romans 5:19]
"... who knew no sin ..." [2 Corinthians 5:21]
"... without sin." [Hebrews 4:15]
"... [who is] holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners ..." [Hebrews 7:26]
"Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:" [1 Peter 2:22]
"... in him is no sin." [1 John 3:5]
"How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God ..." [Hebrews 9:4;p]
Nowhere is any of that which was cited said about Mary and she herself acknowledged her low estate [vs 47-48] before God. It is written of all others of mankind (and thus also Mary):
Romans 3:23 KJB - For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Psalms 14:3 KJB - They are all gone aside, they are [all] together become filthy: [there is] none that doeth good, no, not one.
Psalms 53:3 KJB - Every one of them is gone back: they are altogether become filthy; [there is] none that doeth good, no, not one.
Romans 3:10 KJB - As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
Romans 3:12 KJB - They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
Mary, herself along with the 'brothers of Jesus' (elder sons/daughters of Joseph, from a previous marriage (*scripture evidence upon request), who did not yet believe in him, 'For neither did his brethren believe in him.' - John 7:5) came to Him because they heard from others that Jesus was not in His right mind and was possessed of devils:Psalms 14:3 KJB - They are all gone aside, they are [all] together become filthy: [there is] none that doeth good, no, not one.
Psalms 53:3 KJB - Every one of them is gone back: they are altogether become filthy; [there is] none that doeth good, no, not one.
Romans 3:10 KJB - As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
Romans 3:12 KJB - They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
Mark 3:21 KJB - And when his friends heard [of it], they went out to lay hold on him: for they said, He is beside himself.
Mark 3:30 KJB - Because they said, He hath an unclean spirit.
Mark 3:31 KJB - There came then his brethren and his mother, and, standing without, sent unto him, calling him.
Mark 3:30 KJB - Because they said, He hath an unclean spirit.
Mark 3:31 KJB - There came then his brethren and his mother, and, standing without, sent unto him, calling him.
While Mary was blessed of God and found favour (grace) in His eyes, she was not sinless, and she also made mistakes such as leaving the child Jesus behind in Jerusalem, she had lost sight of Him and assumed Him to be where He was not (Luke 2:41-52).
And she, herself did not understand all that Jesus had said ('And they understood not the saying which he spake unto them.' Luke 2:50) and she wonders at the shepherd's news (Luke 2:18-19) and also marvelled at the news of Simeon and Anna; 'his mother marvelled at those things which were spoken of him' - Luke 2:33).
Anna the prophetess, "...spake of him to all them that looked for redemption in Jerusalem." - Luke 2:38 and this would include Mary who went up to Jerusalem to present the child Jesus, who was the Saviour that was looked for since the fall and in Genesis 3:15 to come from the promise of God (Matthew 1:21).
If anything, Luke's Gospel reveals that Mary, though a follower of God, was not faultless nor sinless and most definitely needed a Saviour from her own sins.
There is no scripture which reveals that Mary was 'assumed into Heaven', and the Apostle John wrote nothing of it in scripture and he was the one given charge of her and she of him, and he outlived her.
Roman Catholicism itself says:
No, and even Rome fully admits this, for they base it on mere "tradition" and fallen human "reason".
“I answer that, Nothing is handed down in the canonical Scriptures concerning the sanctification of the Blessed Mary as to her being sanctified in the womb; indeed, they do not even mention her birth.
But as Augustine, in his tractate on the Assumption of the Virgin, argues with reason, since her body was assumed into heaven, and yet Scripture does not relate this...” [Thomas Aquinas; Summa Theologica; Third Part; Question 27; Article I; “I answer that...”] [The Summa Theologica of St. Thomas Aquinas Second and Revised Edition, 1920 Literally translated by Fathers of the English Dominican Province Online Edition Copyright © 2008 by Kevin Knight Nihil Obstat. F. Innocentius Apap, O.P., S.T.M., Censor. Theol. Imprimatur. Edus. Canonicus Surmont, Vicarius Generalis. Westmonasterii. APPROBATIO ORDINIS Nihil Obstat. F. Raphael Moss, O.P., S.T.L. and F. Leo Moore, O.P., S.T.L. Imprimatur. F. Beda Jarrett, O.P., S.T.L., A.M., Prior Provincialis Angliæ
MARIÆ IMMACULATÆ - SEDI SAPIENTIÆ ] - SUMMA THEOLOGIAE: The sanctification of the Blessed Virgin (Tertia Pars, Q. 27)
“... At the same time, it must be confessed that we do not possess any authentic documents bearing directly on Mary's post-Pentecostal life. ...” [Roman Catholic Online Encyclopedia; “V”; “The Most Blessed Virgin Mary”; subsection “The Post-pentesoctal Life Of Mary”] - CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: The Blessed Virgin Mary
“... Regarding the day, year, and manner of Our Lady's death, nothing certain is known. ...” [Roman Catholic Online Encyclopedia; “A”; “Assumption Of Mary”; subsection “The Fact Of The Assumption”] - CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Assumption of Mary
"St. John Damascene
St. John of Damascus (P.G., I, 96) thus formulates the tradition of the Church of Jerusalem: St. Juvenal, Bishop of Jerusalem, at the Council of Chalcedon (451), made known to the Emperor Marcian and Pulcheria, who wished to possess the body of the Mother of God, that Mary died in the presence of all the Apostles, but that her tomb, when opened, upon the request of St. Thomas, was found empty; wherefrom the Apostles concluded that the body was taken up to heaven." [Roman Catholic Online Encyclopedia; “A”; “Assumption Of Mary”; subsection “The Fact Of The Assumption”] - CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Assumption of Mary
"The feast of the Assumption
Regarding the origin of the feast we are also uncertain. It is more probably the anniversary of the dedication of some church than the actual anniversary of Our Lady's death. That it originated at the time of the Council of Ephesus, or that St. Damasus introduced it in Rome is only a hypothesis. ..." [Roman Catholic Online Encyclopedia; “A”; “Assumption Of Mary”; subsection “The Feast Of The Assumption”] - CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Assumption of Mary
But as Augustine, in his tractate on the Assumption of the Virgin, argues with reason, since her body was assumed into heaven, and yet Scripture does not relate this...” [Thomas Aquinas; Summa Theologica; Third Part; Question 27; Article I; “I answer that...”] [The Summa Theologica of St. Thomas Aquinas Second and Revised Edition, 1920 Literally translated by Fathers of the English Dominican Province Online Edition Copyright © 2008 by Kevin Knight Nihil Obstat. F. Innocentius Apap, O.P., S.T.M., Censor. Theol. Imprimatur. Edus. Canonicus Surmont, Vicarius Generalis. Westmonasterii. APPROBATIO ORDINIS Nihil Obstat. F. Raphael Moss, O.P., S.T.L. and F. Leo Moore, O.P., S.T.L. Imprimatur. F. Beda Jarrett, O.P., S.T.L., A.M., Prior Provincialis Angliæ
MARIÆ IMMACULATÆ - SEDI SAPIENTIÆ ] - SUMMA THEOLOGIAE: The sanctification of the Blessed Virgin (Tertia Pars, Q. 27)
“... At the same time, it must be confessed that we do not possess any authentic documents bearing directly on Mary's post-Pentecostal life. ...” [Roman Catholic Online Encyclopedia; “V”; “The Most Blessed Virgin Mary”; subsection “The Post-pentesoctal Life Of Mary”] - CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: The Blessed Virgin Mary
“... Regarding the day, year, and manner of Our Lady's death, nothing certain is known. ...” [Roman Catholic Online Encyclopedia; “A”; “Assumption Of Mary”; subsection “The Fact Of The Assumption”] - CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Assumption of Mary
"St. John Damascene
St. John of Damascus (P.G., I, 96) thus formulates the tradition of the Church of Jerusalem: St. Juvenal, Bishop of Jerusalem, at the Council of Chalcedon (451), made known to the Emperor Marcian and Pulcheria, who wished to possess the body of the Mother of God, that Mary died in the presence of all the Apostles, but that her tomb, when opened, upon the request of St. Thomas, was found empty; wherefrom the Apostles concluded that the body was taken up to heaven." [Roman Catholic Online Encyclopedia; “A”; “Assumption Of Mary”; subsection “The Fact Of The Assumption”] - CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Assumption of Mary
"The feast of the Assumption
Regarding the origin of the feast we are also uncertain. It is more probably the anniversary of the dedication of some church than the actual anniversary of Our Lady's death. That it originated at the time of the Council of Ephesus, or that St. Damasus introduced it in Rome is only a hypothesis. ..." [Roman Catholic Online Encyclopedia; “A”; “Assumption Of Mary”; subsection “The Feast Of The Assumption”] - CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Assumption of Mary
An "assumption" based on no facts, but mere vain "tradition" of men, made up out of the aether.
Another Roman Catholic theology associated with this 'theotokos' dogma is also not found in scripture, in that it is claimed that 'Mary' offered Jesus:
"Before reciting the Angelus, the Pope concluded his reflection by pointing out that the Gospel teaching has promoted an “active mentality” among Christian populations, even in the historical and social spheres, and yet “the central message regards the spirit of responsibility with which the Kingdom of God is to be accepted: responsibility toward God and toward humanity.” The perfect model of this attitude is found in the heart of the Virgin Mary, “who, receiving the most precious of gifts, Jesus himself, offered him to the world with great love." - [Fides [org]] -
VATICAN - Pope at the Angelus: “Indeed, what Christ gives us is multiplied when we give it away! It is a treasure that is made to be spent, invested, shared with all, as the Apostle Paul, that great administrator of Jesus' talents, has taught us;” the presence of the cloistered religious communities in the Church and the world “is indispensable.” - Agenzia Fides
The Bible never says that Mary 'offered' Jesus, for it states clearly in John 3:16 that God the Father 'gave' Jesus and Jesus 'gave' of Himself (John 6:51, 10:15).
In Hebrews 9:14 we read:
Hebrews 9:14 KJB - How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
does Roman Catholic theology stop at mere 'veneration' (Hyper-Dulia, so-called) of 'Mary'?
No, for it even includes "worship" which is "in common" with that of worship of God, and so much more.
"...the Most August Virgin Mary ... this Divine Mother... Yet our manner of praying to the Blessed Virgin has something in common with our worship of God, so that the Church even addresses to her the words with which we pray to God: "Have mercy on sinners."
… the heavenly choirs, "above whom the Holy Mother of God is exalted." ...” Augustissimae Virginis Mariae (September 12, 1897) | LEO XIII & On the Confraternity of the Holy Rosary - Papal Encyclicals
… the heavenly choirs, "above whom the Holy Mother of God is exalted." ...” Augustissimae Virginis Mariae (September 12, 1897) | LEO XIII & On the Confraternity of the Holy Rosary - Papal Encyclicals
We can also pause and rethink the position of Mary a little more.
Another point, in that Mary did not ever-remain a virgin, for she also had to be purified after the birth of Jesus ('...when the days of her purification according to the law of Moses were accomplished..." - Luke 2:22; Leviticus 12:2-6), and the marriage to Joseph eventually was consumated, which is the right of the married.
See Genesis 2:24; Matthew 19:5; Mark 10:7 and Joseph was to eventually 'perform the duty of the husband' (see Matthew 1:25).
The marriage bed is not defiled by such, for it is in the will of God ('Marriage [is] honourable in all, and the bed undefiled:...' - Hebrews 13:4).
A question we could ask, “Should she be deprived of the joy of her husband Joseph whom she had been espoused to before she had ever known of that which was to come about?”
Mary herself was born as every human is born, the lineage of Luke 3:22-38 and Matthew 1:1-16 reveals this. Thus she had the likeness of the fallen sinful flesh as all mankind have after the fall of Adam.
Mary was "betrothed" to Joseph before she had ever heard any message from the Angel.
For what purpose was she betrothed?
Was it not to be married to Joseph?
What purpose in the marriage then if not to have it consumated as is given to them by God from Creation?
Was their marriage never to be consumated?
Perhaps we could look some more at the scriptures:
What has Paul's common sense to say about such:
1 Corinthians 7:5 KJB - Defraud ye not one the other, except [it be] with consent for a time, that ye may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again, that Satan tempt you not for your incontinency.
1 Corinthians 7:28 KJB - But and if thou marry, thou hast not sinned; and if a virgin marry, she hath not sinned. Nevertheless such shall have trouble in the flesh: but I spare you.
1 Corinthians 7:34 KJB - There is difference [also] between a wife and a virgin. The unmarried woman careth for the things of the Lord, that she may be holy both in body and in spirit: but she that is married careth for the things of the world, how she may please [her] husband.
1 Corinthians 7:28 KJB - But and if thou marry, thou hast not sinned; and if a virgin marry, she hath not sinned. Nevertheless such shall have trouble in the flesh: but I spare you.
1 Corinthians 7:34 KJB - There is difference [also] between a wife and a virgin. The unmarried woman careth for the things of the Lord, that she may be holy both in body and in spirit: but she that is married careth for the things of the world, how she may please [her] husband.
As it is written:
Ecclesiastes 3:5 KJB - “... a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing;”
They had both consented that Joseph would not lie with her while she was with child. Yet what does the above texts reveal? It is not a sin for Joseph and Mary (whom was betrothed to Joseph), being married to consumate their marriage.
Ephesians 5:31 KJB - For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.
Proverbs 5:18 KJB - Let thy fountain be blessed: and rejoice with the wife of thy youth.
Genesis 2:24 KJB - Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.
Proverbs 18:22 KJB - [Whoso] findeth a wife findeth a good [thing], and obtaineth favour of the LORD.
Exodus 21:10 KJB - If he take him another [wife]; her food, her raiment, and her duty of marriage, shall he not diminish. (though speaking of the rules of those who had already had multiple wives in those days, the same can still apply to those who have been widowed and marry another.)
Proverbs 5:18 KJB - Let thy fountain be blessed: and rejoice with the wife of thy youth.
Genesis 2:24 KJB - Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.
Proverbs 18:22 KJB - [Whoso] findeth a wife findeth a good [thing], and obtaineth favour of the LORD.
Exodus 21:10 KJB - If he take him another [wife]; her food, her raiment, and her duty of marriage, shall he not diminish. (though speaking of the rules of those who had already had multiple wives in those days, the same can still apply to those who have been widowed and marry another.)
Moreover:
Additionally we may see further by the same Scriptures, given by the Holy Spirit [2 Timothy 3:16; 2 Peter 1:21, etc], and by the mouth of the messenger Angel Gabriel, that Mary was indeed the "wife" of Joseph, and as such given to him of God for marriage [for every good gift, comes from God; James 1:17]:
Matthew 1:20 KJB - But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.
Matthew 1:24 KJB - Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife:
Matthew 1:25 KJB - And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.
Matthew 1:24 KJB - Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife:
Matthew 1:25 KJB - And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.
When God, by the Angel, says "thy wife" [even as "his espoused wife", Luke 2:5; see also Matthew 1:18; Luke 1:27], God has indeed given her in marriage to Joseph to actually be his wife, in all that this entails, and yet they both abstained from 'knowing' one another "till" [context, "knew her not till she had" and "thy wife"] she had brought forth Jesus.
The word "knew" is the Greek "ginōskō", and just as the Hebrew word for to "know" [Genesis 4:1,17,25, etc "yada`", see the LXX for comparison in the same texts, "egnw"] used in the context of marriage, means the closest intimacy in the bonds of love within the marriage covenant, and includes the sexual relationship [see Luke 1:34; Matthew 1:25].
It is not degrading for Mary to have been with Joseph after the birth of Jesus, for this is the gift of God in marriage. It is for their pleasure and comfort, joy and delight in each other, to reveal their love to one another in the closest way possible that two people can know. It is also for their safe-keeping from wandering to another.
God created sex within marriage to be a delight and joy, not something to be shunned, or avoided.
Would it have been fair to Joseph who had agreed to remain with her and marry her to not be able to spend such time with his wife, Mary (she who had been betrothed to him)? Is God cruel in this way? No, God is love.
What is the point of all of the above? To reveal Mary trusted in His salvation, to save her from her sins and faults and she clung to God.
Now, Roman Catholicism, has a more sinister theology in regards Mary, as they teach that she is the Ark of the Covenant, and the Woman of Revelation 12.
However, the "woman" of Revelation 12, though in small part includes Mary (for she is one of the people of God, whom the woman represents, who longed for the coming of the Messiah), but it speaks to the greater body of Christ (the "church in the wilderness", such as Moses and all Israel, see Acts 7:38; 1 Corinthians 10:1-12; Ephesians 5:22-33; Jeremiah 6:2; Isaiah 62:1-5; Revelation 22:17; etc who is in contrast to the Great Whore of Revelation 17).
John 16:21 KJB - A woman when she is in travail hath sorrow, because her hour is come: but as soon as she is delivered of the child, she remembereth no more the anguish, for joy that a man is born into the world.
Luke 2:11 KJB - For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.
For notice, this woman did not 'remain' in Heaven, but was chased and fled into the 'wilderness' for 1,260 years (the same timeframe as found in Daniel 7:25, 12:7; Revelation 11:2-3, 12:6,14, 13:5; Luke 21:24; being a part of the larger 2,300 years of Daniel 8:13,14,26; Revelation 9:13-15, etc, and connected with the 1,290 years of Daniel 12:11 and the 1,335 years of Daniel 12:12, and the 490 years of Daniel 9:24-27):
Revelation 12:6 KJB - And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.
Revelation 12:13 KJB - And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
Revelation 12:14 KJB - And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
Revelation 12:15 KJB - And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
Revelation 12:16 KJB - And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
Revelation12:17 KJB - And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
Revelation 12:13 KJB - And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
Revelation 12:14 KJB - And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
Revelation 12:15 KJB - And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
Revelation 12:16 KJB - And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
Revelation12:17 KJB - And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
Please notice that the "great wonder" of "a woman" that appeared "in Heaven" before she gave birth to the "man child", and was chased on earth (Revelation 12:6,12-17) "in the wilderness" after the "man child" (Jesus the Christ) was born and ascended, and for a very long time.
Roman Catholicism attempts to link the previous scripture of Revelation 11:19, with the text of Revelation 12:1, and say that the "woman" is the Ark in the Most Holy Place of Heaven. Nothing could be further from the truth, for the timeframe that Revelation 11:19 speaks about is the timeframe of the end, the 7th trumpet:
Revelation 11:15 KJB - And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
Revelation 12:1, speaks about the timeframe long before Jesus was born, and the waiting of the people of God for the time prophecies to be fulfilled in Daniel:
Revelation 12:1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
Revelation 12:2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.
Roman Catholicism must confound these scriptures and time that it may exalt 'Mary', because in reality, Roman Catholicism's apparitional 'Mary' is really Satan masquerading as a messenger (angel) of Light (2 Corinthians 11:14). Now most Roman Catholics have no idea, but if they will simply read their own material (which I will later be citing), they will hear the very voice of satan exalting himself in them under the guise of this apparition of a woman.
Mary is not in Heaven, she is dead, asleep in her grave, awaiting her resurrection, but because Roman Catholicism believes in neo-platonism, and immortal soul/spirit theology, spiritualism runs rampant in their theology, just as the nuns that never see the world practice, in their seances. Oh, they know what they are doing, and the carnal filth that goes with it.
Additionally, if Roman Catholicism's theology desires to have this “woman” of Revelation 12 as 'Mary', then do they desire also to teach as the scripture does, that this “woman” of Revelation 12 had more descendants, as this “woman”, being the people of God throughout the ages, has numerous 'children', Jesus, being the “firstborn” of many, while the actual Mary had only one child, Jesus:
Romans 8:29 KJB - For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Revelation 12:17 KJB - And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
Colossians 1:15 KJB - Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
Colossians 1:18 KJB - And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
Revelation 12:17 KJB - And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
Colossians 1:15 KJB - Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
Colossians 1:18 KJB - And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
Paul solves the issue for us, line upon line: “... head of the body … who is the beginning … have the preeminence.”
Now, consider the greater context of the whole of scripture, for Christ Jesus can be said to fulfill both meanings, in that not only is:
[1] Jesus is the “firstborn”, being the preeminent one:
Romans 9:5 KJB - Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.
Colossians 1:16 KJB - For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Colossians 2:10 KJB - And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
Ephesians 1:21 KJB - Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:
Ephesians 1:22 KJB - And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,
Ephesians 1:23 KJB - Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.
Ephesians 3:9 KJB - And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
Ephesians 4:15 KJB - But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:
Hebrews 7:26 KJB - For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens;
John 1:3 KJB - All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Colossians 1:16 KJB - For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Colossians 2:10 KJB - And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
Ephesians 1:21 KJB - Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:
Ephesians 1:22 KJB - And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,
Ephesians 1:23 KJB - Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.
Ephesians 3:9 KJB - And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
Ephesians 4:15 KJB - But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:
Hebrews 7:26 KJB - For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens;
John 1:3 KJB - All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
[2] Jesus is also the “firstborn” of the Woman/Church:
Isaiah 9:6 KJB - For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Luke 2:11 KJB - For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.
Hebrews 2:10 KJB - For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.
Revelation 12:1 KJB - And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
Revelation 12:2 KJB - And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.
Revelation 12:3 KJB - And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
Revelation 12:4 KJB - And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
Revelation 12:5 KJB - And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
Revelation 12:13 KJB - And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
Luke 2:11 KJB - For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.
Hebrews 2:10 KJB - For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.
Revelation 12:1 KJB - And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
Revelation 12:2 KJB - And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.
Revelation 12:3 KJB - And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
Revelation 12:4 KJB - And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
Revelation 12:5 KJB - And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
Revelation 12:13 KJB - And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
Furthermore, Roman Catholicism's theology at this point, ignores that “a great red Dragon” was also “in heaven” with “the woman”:
Revelation 12:3 KJB - And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
Do you begin to see that through such a confusing (1 Corinthians 14:33) theology that the Devil himself is in Heaven with 'Mary'? In fact, this is exactly what the devil wants, since he masquerades as the apparitional 'mary' on earth.
While the devil had access to the gates of Heaven once again (Job 1:6-12, 2:1-7; 1 Kings 22:19-24; 2 Chronicles 18:18-23; Luke 22:31; John 19:11), when Adam surrendered his steward-dominion (Genesis 1:24-31, 2:7-25; Psalms 8:4-6; Micah 4:8) over to him, it was at the Cross in AD 31 (Romans 5:6; Revelation 12:10), that the devil was permanently cast down, and no longer has access any more to the gates of Heaven, and is permanently stuck down here in “the pit”, pacing back and forth, until his time to be executed (Proverbs 28:15; Ezekiel 22:25; 1 Peter 5:8).
For more on Revelation 12, see the full study here:
https://archive.org/download/revela...sy/Revelation 12 – The Great Controversy.pptx
Illuminator
Well-Known Member
Seventh Day Adventism is obsessed with misrepresenting and teaching lies about Catholicism. Their inflammatory rhetoric is a constant nuisance on this board. You have no credibility.
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101G
Well-Known Member
ERROR, don't need to fly, but stand aganist the gates of hell...
YIKES!. the church is within you. ....... your body is not the church, but the Spirit is, I ask you what, or who was placed into the body of the Church? was it you? but STOP and think if you was placed into, into, into, into, then the church was already present before you was placed into it... lol. if you cannot understand that, let us make it very clear,now are you not seated in heavenly places? but are YOU in heaven NOW? lol, but you're seated in heaven, now, can you see yourself in heaven physically or spiritually? .... thank you, and you see by FAITH, and not by sight.
and if you think, just because you might manifest some kind act, (making you seen physically as the church), I can get some none going church people and do the same thing... maybe even better.
so all Your Gnosticism, and Nestorianism name calling move me not..... LOL, LOL, LOL. see vain talk to me is nothing but dung.....
YIKES!so all your big words, save them for someone else.
now watch this, ..... have a sacrosanct Day. ....... (smile).
Remember, Don't argue with 101G, argue with the scriptures, God Holy Word.
PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
then by definition you are declaring that Jesus is not God! Jesus is God in His person both God and man, And Mary is His mother, the mother of God! Lk 1:43 the word Lord is used throughout scripture as God! Deut. 6:4 Hera oh Israel the Lord your God! Etc. even in Lk 1:16 And many of the children of Israel shall he turn to the Lord their God. it is refering to God and Mary is His mother, mother of the son of God! Never said she is mother of the father or HS! Or if the divinity! But the second person of the Trinity! God bearer! Salvation bearer too! For she gave the savior to us! Lk 2:11
There is another scripture for your consideration, Matt 16:18 it is bound on earth in the holy apostolic council of Ephesus – 431 A.D. Lk 10:16 applies
God is addressing and greeting Mary ever Virgin mother of God thru the instrument of His Angel!
Lk 1:26-31
26 But in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God into a city of Galilee, whose name was Nazareth [to which the name Nazareth],
27 to a maiden [to a virgin], wedded to a man, whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the name of the maiden was Mary.
28 And the angel entered to her, and said, Hail, full of grace; the Lord is with thee; blessed be thou among women.
29 And when she had heard, she was troubled in his word, and thought what manner salutation this was.
30 And the angel said to her, Dread thou not, Mary, for thou hast found grace with God.
31 Lo! thou shalt conceive in [the] womb, and shalt bear a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus.
1) This is a royal form of address, and greeting! Mary is the queen of heaven, in the line David’s kingdom the mother of the king is always the queen, and Jesus is king, Lk 1:32-33 that makes Mary the queen of heaven and all the angels and saints!
2) Mary is full of grace! Immaculate! Pure! and Holy!
3) The Lord is with Her!
4) God declares Mary blessed! She is already blessed, we call her blessed for being the mother of God, Lk 1:43 and the mother of our savior, Lk 2:11 Lk 1:30 all imitate God and call Mary blessed Lk 1:48 all those around her are just, Joseph matt 1:19 and faithful Matt 1:24 Elizabeth and Zacharias were just and blameless Lk 1:6 and John is Holy from the womb. Lk 1:15 all were full of the Holy Spirit! But only Mary is declared BLESSED by God!
5) Lk1:29 Mary’s humility reflected in vs Lk 1:48
6) Mary has found favor with God, the grace of salvation lost by Adam!
7) Lk 1:31 perpetual Virgin ( bear a son singular)
8) Mother of our salvation! She consented to our salvation (Jesus)
Lk 1:38
mary found the grace of salvation that Adam lost
Lk 1:47 savior? This does not say she sinned or has guilt, she is conceived without sin, and is immaculate, pure, holy, because she was preserved from sin we are rescued from it, both are salvation and both involve a savior!
God is Holy by nature! Uncreated eternal! Mary is Holy by Gods Grace from conception!
All have sinned, including Mary right?
1) This verse can be seen as a generalization, like Matt 3:5.
2) Paul is quoting the OT all have sinned accept my people.
No matter what it’s not absolute, Jesus, children under the age of reason, mentally ill or anyone without free will are Not Included!!! And Mary is not included! Gen 3:15 enmity, Lk 1:28 full of grace and blessed!
This verse refers to those born in original sin, so it does not apply to Mary who is conceived without original sin, but in God’s Grace!
Ineffabilis Deus
The Immaculate Conception
Pope BI. Pius IX - 1854
“We declare, pronounce, and define that the doctrine which holds that the most Blessed Virgin Mary, in the first instance of her conception, by a singular grace and privilege granted by Almighty God, in view of the merits of Jesus Christ, the Savior of the human race, was preserved free from all stain of original sin, is a doctrine revealed by God and therefore to be believed firmly and constantly by all the faithful.”
Gen 3:15 I will put enmities between thee and the woman, and thy seed and her seed: she shall crush thy head, and thou shalt lie in wait for her heel.
(Enmities total war, none of satan’s works found in Her immaculate purity)
Lk 1:28 And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, Mary full of Grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.
(Immaculate purity, full of grace, blessed)
Lk 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
(Mary must have immaculate purity)
Lk 1:47 And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour. (Preserved from all sin in virtue of the merits of the blood of the savior who is Her son)
Lk 1:49 For he that is mighty hath done to me great things; and holy is his name.
(Immaculate conception of Mary and the miraculous conception of Jesus)
Song of Solomon 4:1 Behold, thou art fair, my love; behold, thou art fair; thou hast doves' eyes within thy locks: thy hair is as a flock of goats, that appear from mount Gilead.
Rev 12:1 a woman clothed with the sun.
(Immaculate purity)
Perpetual Virginity of Mary!
Mary conceived "without any detriment to her virginity, which remained inviolate even after his birth" (apostolic Council of the Lateran, 649)
Perpetual Virginity of Mary!
The Bible never says anyone is a biological child of Mary accept for Jesus Christ!
And the Bible says Her child is holy! And Her child is God!
Is 7:14 God provides a sign, a Virgin shall conceive and bear a son! (Singular, one son)
Ezekiel 44:2 “This gate shall remain shut; it shall not be opened, and no one shall enter by it; for the Lord, the God of Israel, has entered by it; therefore it shall remain shut.”
Song of Solomon 4:12 A garden inclosed is my sister, my spouse; a spring shut up, a fountain sealed.
(Mary had become the dwelling place of the Almighty, like the Ark of the Covenant in the Old Testament. Mary was a vessel consecrated to God alone?)
Matt 1:20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.
(The Bible says only the Holy Ghost conceived in Mary)
Matt 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.
(A son singular) (does James save his people?)
Lk 1:28 Hail Mary, full of Grace, the Lord is with thee!
Blessed art thou amongst all women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb.
(The fruit of Her womb is blessed and holy)
Lk 1:31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name Jesus.
(A son, singular)
Lk 1:34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?
(This verse imply’s a vow of perpetual virginity, She refuses even the exalted dignity of mother of God and mother of our savior if it means violating Her vow of perpetual virginity)
Lk 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
(Her son is God)
Matt 1:25 He knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name Jesus.
2 Samuel 6:23 tells us: Therefore Michal the daughter of Saul had no child UNTIL the day of her death.
Are we to assume that Michal had children after she died?
Until only states that they had no relation up to that point, the Bible does not say they had sex ever, before or after that point!
First born does not imply a second born. An only child is still first born!
No where does say Joseph a just and therefore chaste man has gone into Mary where the Holy Spirit has conceived, 2 Sam 12:24 And David comforted Bathsheba his wife, and went in unto her, and lay with her: and she bare a son, and he called his name Solomon: and the Lord loved him.
Brothers and sisters of Jesus?
They are not the children of Mary!
Is 7:14 a virgin shall conceive and bear a son!
(One son, singular)
James is the son of zebedee, and the other James is the son of Alpheus not Joseph!
Matt 10:2-3
In Hebrew culture any close relative can be called brother or sister, lot was called Abraham’s brother but was his nephew.
Gen 12:5 and Abram took Sarai his wife, and Lot his brother's son..
Gen 13:8 And Abram said unto Lot, Let there be no strife, I pray thee, between me and thee, and between my herdsmen and thy herdsmen; for we are Brothers.
The 12 sons of Jacob are brothers but all are not the children of Leah and all are not the children of Rachel! They may be brothers and sisters but they are simply not the children of Blessed Mary ever Virgin mother of God!
Jose’s, Simon Salome are children of another Mary!
Mk 15:40 There were also women looking on afar off: among whom was Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James the less and of Joses, and Salome;
“You had good reason to be horrified at the thought that another birth might issue from the same virginal womb from which Christ was born according to the flesh. For the Lord Jesus would never have chosen to be born of a virgin if he had ever judged that she would be so incontinent as to contaminate with the seed of human intercourse the birthplace of the Lord’s body, that court of the eternal king” (ancient writer)
Martin Luther
It is an article of faith that Mary is Mother of the Lord and still a virgin. … Christ, we believe, came forth from a womb left perfectly intact. (Weimer’s The Works of Luther, English translation by Pelikan, Concordia, St. Louis, v. 11, pp. 319-320; v. 6. p. 510.)
John Calvin
(On the Heretic Helvidius) Helvidius displayed excessive ignorance in concluding that Mary must have had many sons, because Christ’s “brothers” are sometimes mentioned. (Harmony of Matthew, Mark and Luke, sec. 39 [Geneva, 1562], vol. 2 / From Calvin’s Commentaries, translated by William Pringle, Grand Rapids, Michigan: Eerdmans, 1949, p.215; on Matthew 13:55)
[On Matt 1:25:] The inference he [Helvidius] drew from it was, that Mary remained a virgin no longer than till her first birth, and that afterwards she had other children by her husband . . . No just and well-grounded inference can be drawn from these words . . . as to what took place after the birth of Christ. He is called “first-born”; but it is for the sole purpose of informing us that he was born of a virgin . . . What took place afterwards the historian does not inform us . . . No man will obstinately keep up the argument, except from an extreme fondness for disputation. (Pringle, ibid., vol. I, p. 107)
Under the word “brethren” the Hebrews include all cousins and other relations, whatever may be the degree of affinity. (Pringle, ibid., vol. I, p. 283 / Commentary on John, [7:3])
John Wesley
‘I believe that He [Jesus] was made man, joining the human nature with the divine in one person; being conceived by the singular operation of the Holy Ghost, and born of the blessed Virgin Mary, who, as well after as before she brought Him forth, continued a pure and unspotted virgin’ (‘Letter to a Roman Catholic’, The Works of Rev. John Wesley, vol 10, p. 81).
St Augustine, Sermons 186.1 (early 5th century):
“In being born of a Virgin who chose to remain a Virgin even before she knew who was to be born of her, Christ wanted to approve virginity rather than to impose it. And he wanted virginity to be of free choice even in that woman in whom he took upon himself the form of a slave” (Holy Virginity 4:4 [A.D. 401]).
“It was not the visible sun, but its invisible Creator who consecrated this day for us, when the Virgin Mother, fertile of womb and integral in her virginity, brought him forth, made visible for us, by whom, when he was invisible, she too was created. A Virgin conceiving, a Virgin bearing, a Virgin pregnant, a Virgin bringing forth, a Virgin perpetual. Why do you wonder at this, O man?” (Sermons 186:1 [A.D. 411]).
“Heretics called Antidicomarites are those who contradict the perpetual virginity of Mary and affirm that after Christ was born she was joined as one with her husband” (Heresies 56 [A.D. 428]).
St Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologica, III.28.3 (13th century):
"Without any hesitation we must abhor the error of Helvidius, who dared to assert that Christ's Mother, after His Birth, was carnally known by Joseph, and bore other children.
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For, in the first place, this is derogatory to Christ's perfection: for as He is in His Godhead the Only-Begotten of the Father, being thus His Son in every respect perfect, so it was becoming that He should be the Only-begotten son of His Mother, as being her perfect offspring.
“Secondly, this error is an insult to the Holy Ghost, whose "shrine" was the virginal womb, wherein He had formed the flesh of Christ: wherefore it was unbecoming that it should be desecrated by intercourse with man.
“Thirdly, this is derogatory to the dignity and holiness of God's Mother: for thus she would seem to be most ungrateful, were she not content with such a Son; and were she, of her own accord, by carnal intercourse to forfeit that virginity which had been miraculously preserved in her.
“Fourthly, it would be tantamount to an imputation of extreme presumption in Joseph, to assume that he attempted to violate her whom by the angel's revelation he knew to have conceived by the Holy Ghost.
“We must therefore simply assert that the Mother of God, as she was a virgin in conceiving Him and a virgin in giving Him birth, did she remain a virgin ever afterwards."
The blessed Mary mother of God, is a perpetual virgin to the glory of God!
Mary conceived "without any detriment to her virginity, which remained inviolate even after his birth" (apostolic Council of the Lateran, 649)
Perpetual Virginity of Mary!
The Bible never says anyone is a biological child of Mary accept for Jesus Christ!
And the Bible says Her child is holy! And Her child is God!
Is 7:14 God provides a sign, a Virgin shall conceive and bear a son! (Singular, one son)
Ezekiel 44:2 “This gate shall remain shut; it shall not be opened, and no one shall enter by it; for the Lord, the God of Israel, has entered by it; therefore it shall remain shut.”
Song of Solomon 4:12 A garden inclosed is my sister, my spouse; a spring shut up, a fountain sealed.
(Mary had become the dwelling place of the Almighty, like the Ark of the Covenant in the Old Testament. Mary was a vessel consecrated to God alone?)
Matt 1:20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.
(The Bible says only the Holy Ghost conceived in Mary)
Matt 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.
(A son singular) (does James save his people?)
Lk 1:28 Hail Mary, full of Grace, the Lord is with thee!
Blessed art thou amongst all women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb.
(The fruit of Her womb is blessed and holy)
Lk 1:31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name Jesus.
(A son, singular)
Lk 1:34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?
(This verse imply’s a vow of perpetual virginity, She refuses even the exalted dignity of mother of God and mother of our savior if it means violating Her vow of perpetual virginity)
Lk 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
(Her son is God)
Matt 1:25 He knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name Jesus.
2 Samuel 6:23 tells us: Therefore Michal the daughter of Saul had no child UNTIL the day of her death.
Are we to assume that Michal had children after she died?
Until only states that they had no relation up to that point, the Bible does not say they had sex ever, before or after that point!
First born does not imply a second born. An only child is still first born!
No where does say Joseph a just and therefore chaste man has gone into Mary where the Holy Spirit has conceived, 2 Sam 12:24 And David comforted Bathsheba his wife, and went in unto her, and lay with her: and she bare a son, and he called his name Solomon: and the Lord loved him.
Brothers and sisters of Jesus?
They are not the children of Mary!
Is 7:14 a virgin shall conceive and bear a son!
(One son, singular)
James is the son of zebedee, and the other James is the son of Alpheus not Joseph!
Matt 10:2-3
In Hebrew culture any close relative can be called brother or sister, lot was called Abraham’s brother but was his nephew.
Gen 12:5 and Abram took Sarai his wife, and Lot his brother's son..
Gen 13:8 And Abram said unto Lot, Let there be no strife, I pray thee, between me and thee, and between my herdsmen and thy herdsmen; for we are Brothers.
The 12 sons of Jacob are brothers but all are not the children of Leah and all are not the children of Rachel! They may be brothers and sisters but they are simply not the children of Blessed Mary ever Virgin mother of God!
Jose’s, Simon Salome are children of another Mary!
Mk 15:40 There were also women looking on afar off: among whom was Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James the less and of Joses, and Salome;
“You had good reason to be horrified at the thought that another birth might issue from the same virginal womb from which Christ was born according to the flesh. For the Lord Jesus would never have chosen to be born of a virgin if he had ever judged that she would be so incontinent as to contaminate with the seed of human intercourse the birthplace of the Lord’s body, that court of the eternal king” (ancient writer)
Martin Luther
It is an article of faith that Mary is Mother of the Lord and still a virgin. … Christ, we believe, came forth from a womb left perfectly intact. (Weimer’s The Works of Luther, English translation by Pelikan, Concordia, St. Louis, v. 11, pp. 319-320; v. 6. p. 510.)
John Calvin
(On the Heretic Helvidius) Helvidius displayed excessive ignorance in concluding that Mary must have had many sons, because Christ’s “brothers” are sometimes mentioned. (Harmony of Matthew, Mark and Luke, sec. 39 [Geneva, 1562], vol. 2 / From Calvin’s Commentaries, translated by William Pringle, Grand Rapids, Michigan: Eerdmans, 1949, p.215; on Matthew 13:55)
[On Matt 1:25:] The inference he [Helvidius] drew from it was, that Mary remained a virgin no longer than till her first birth, and that afterwards she had other children by her husband . . . No just and well-grounded inference can be drawn from these words . . . as to what took place after the birth of Christ. He is called “first-born”; but it is for the sole purpose of informing us that he was born of a virgin . . . What took place afterwards the historian does not inform us . . . No man will obstinately keep up the argument, except from an extreme fondness for disputation. (Pringle, ibid., vol. I, p. 107)
Under the word “brethren” the Hebrews include all cousins and other relations, whatever may be the degree of affinity. (Pringle, ibid., vol. I, p. 283 / Commentary on John, [7:3])
John Wesley
‘I believe that He [Jesus] was made man, joining the human nature with the divine in one person; being conceived by the singular operation of the Holy Ghost, and born of the blessed Virgin Mary, who, as well after as before she brought Him forth, continued a pure and unspotted virgin’ (‘Letter to a Roman Catholic’, The Works of Rev. John Wesley, vol 10, p. 81).
St Augustine, Sermons 186.1 (early 5th century):
“In being born of a Virgin who chose to remain a Virgin even before she knew who was to be born of her, Christ wanted to approve virginity rather than to impose it. And he wanted virginity to be of free choice even in that woman in whom he took upon himself the form of a slave” (Holy Virginity 4:4 [A.D. 401]).
“It was not the visible sun, but its invisible Creator who consecrated this day for us, when the Virgin Mother, fertile of womb and integral in her virginity, brought him forth, made visible for us, by whom, when he was invisible, she too was created. A Virgin conceiving, a Virgin bearing, a Virgin pregnant, a Virgin bringing forth, a Virgin perpetual. Why do you wonder at this, O man?” (Sermons 186:1 [A.D. 411]).
“Heretics called Antidicomarites are those who contradict the perpetual virginity of Mary and affirm that after Christ was born she was joined as one with her husband” (Heresies 56 [A.D. 428]).
St Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologica, III.28.3 (13th century):
"Without any hesitation we must abhor the error of Helvidius, who dared to assert that Christ's Mother, after His Birth, was carnally known by Joseph, and bore other children.
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For, in the first place, this is derogatory to Christ's perfection: for as He is in His Godhead the Only-Begotten of the Father, being thus His Son in every respect perfect, so it was becoming that He should be the Only-begotten son of His Mother, as being her perfect offspring.
“Secondly, this error is an insult to the Holy Ghost, whose "shrine" was the virginal womb, wherein He had formed the flesh of Christ: wherefore it was unbecoming that it should be desecrated by intercourse with man.
“Thirdly, this is derogatory to the dignity and holiness of God's Mother: for thus she would seem to be most ungrateful, were she not content with such a Son; and were she, of her own accord, by carnal intercourse to forfeit that virginity which had been miraculously preserved in her.
“Fourthly, it would be tantamount to an imputation of extreme presumption in Joseph, to assume that he attempted to violate her whom by the angel's revelation he knew to have conceived by the Holy Ghost.
“We must therefore simply assert that the Mother of God, as she was a virgin in conceiving Him and a virgin in giving Him birth, did she remain a virgin ever afterwards."
The blessed Mary mother of God, is a perpetual virgin to the glory of God!
rev 12:1 assumption of Mary!
Tradition is scriptural!
Matt 16:18 18:18
Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20
Behold I am with you (the successors or the apostles until the end of the age, so the successors must remain until the end of the age) matt 28:19
(None of the so called reformers were apostles) (no man has authority to start a church)
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Teaching authority of the Apostles and their successors in the church founded in the one true founded by Jesus Christ!
Jesus Christ is the head of the church, (eph 5:23) the body of Christ,
(col 1:18) the new and eternal covenant, (pre-figured Jer 31:31) (Heb 8:8) new covenant replaces the Mosaic covenant, (Heb 8:13) Christ replaces David as king, (Lk 1:32-33) Jesus Christ is the only mediator between God and men, (1 Tim 2:5 & Heb 12:24) but a mediator remains on earth mediating between God and His people, but Christ ascended to heaven, (acts 1) before He did He founded His church, on Peter, and the apostles, and their successors!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 2:42 acts 8:31 & 35 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 16:13
Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20
We must be taught by Peter, the apostles, and their successors! Lk 10:16 Matt 28:19 Jn 21:17
Matt 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Lk 1:4 That thou mightest know the certainty of those things, wherein thou hast been instructed.
Acts 8:30 And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest?
31 And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him.
Col 2:7 Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving.
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The obedience of faith!
Rom 1:5 By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name.
Taught the one true faith revealed by Christ to His apostles! Eph 4:5 Jude 1:3
——————————-
Perpetual Virginity of Mary!
Mary conceived "without any detriment to her virginity, which remained inviolate even after his birth" (apostolic Council of the Lateran, 649)
Perpetual Virginity of Mary!
The Bible never says anyone is a biological child of Mary accept for Jesus Christ!
And the Bible says Her child is holy! And Her child is God!
Is 7:14 God provides a sign, a Virgin shall conceive and bear a son! (Singular, one son)
Ezekiel 44:2 “This gate shall remain shut; it shall not be opened, and no one shall enter by it; for the Lord, the God of Israel, has entered by it; therefore it shall remain shut.”
Song of Solomon 4:12 A garden inclosed is my sister, my spouse; a spring shut up, a fountain sealed.
(Mary had become the dwelling place of the Almighty, like the Ark of the Covenant in the Old Testament. Mary was a vessel consecrated to God alone?)
Matt 1:20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.
(The Bible says only the Holy Ghost conceived in Mary)
Matt 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.
(A son singular) (does James save his people?)
Lk 1:28 Hail Mary, full of Grace, the Lord is with thee!
Blessed art thou amongst all women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb.
(The fruit of Her womb is blessed and holy)
Lk 1:31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name Jesus.
(A son, singular)
Lk 1:34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?
(This verse imply’s a vow of perpetual virginity, She refuses even the exalted dignity of mother of God and mother of our savior if it means violating Her vow of perpetual virginity)
Lk 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
(Her son is God)
Matt 1:25 He knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name Jesus.
2 Samuel 6:23 tells us: Therefore Michal the daughter of Saul had no child UNTIL the day of her death.
Are we to assume that Michal had children after she died?
Until only states that they had no relation up to that point, the Bible does not say they had sex ever, before or after that point!
First born does not imply a second born. An only child is still first born!
No where does say Joseph a just and therefore chaste man has gone into Mary where the Holy Spirit has conceived, 2 Sam 12:24 And David comforted Bathsheba his wife, and went in unto her, and lay with her: and she bare a son, and he called his name Solomon: and the Lord loved him.
Brothers and sisters of Jesus?
They are not the children of Mary!
Is 7:14 a virgin shall conceive and bear a son!
(One son, singular)
James is the son of zebedee, and the other James is the son of Alpheus not Joseph!
Matt 10:2-3
In Hebrew culture any close relative can be called brother or sister, lot was called Abraham’s brother but was his nephew.
Gen 12:5 and Abram took Sarai his wife, and Lot his brother's son..
Gen 13:8 And Abram said unto Lot, Let there be no strife, I pray thee, between me and thee, and between my herdsmen and thy herdsmen; for we are Brothers.
The 12 sons of Jacob are brothers but all are not the children of Leah and all are not the children of Rachel! They may be brothers and sisters but they are simply not the children of Blessed Mary ever Virgin mother of God!
Jose’s, Simon Salome are children of another Mary!
Mk 15:40 There were also women looking on afar off: among whom was Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James the less and of Joses, and Salome;
“You had good reason to be horrified at the thought that another birth might issue from the same virginal womb from which Christ was born according to the flesh. For the Lord Jesus would never have chosen to be born of a virgin if he had ever judged that she would be so incontinent as to contaminate with the seed of human intercourse the birthplace of the Lord’s body, that court of the eternal king” (ancient writer)
Martin Luther
It is an article of faith that Mary is Mother of the Lord and still a virgin. … Christ, we believe, came forth from a womb left perfectly intact. (Weimer’s The Works of Luther, English translation by Pelikan, Concordia, St. Louis, v. 11, pp. 319-320; v. 6. p. 510.)
John Calvin
(On the Heretic Helvidius) Helvidius displayed excessive ignorance in concluding that Mary must have had many sons, because Christ’s “brothers” are sometimes mentioned. (Harmony of Matthew, Mark and Luke, sec. 39 [Geneva, 1562], vol. 2 / From Calvin’s Commentaries, translated by William Pringle, Grand Rapids, Michigan: Eerdmans, 1949, p.215; on Matthew 13:55)
[On Matt 1:25:] The inference he [Helvidius] drew from it was, that Mary remained a virgin no longer than till her first birth, and that afterwards she had other children by her husband . . . No just and well-grounded inference can be drawn from these words . . . as to what took place after the birth of Christ. He is called “first-born”; but it is for the sole purpose of informing us that he was born of a virgin . . . What took place afterwards the historian does not inform us . . . No man will obstinately keep up the argument, except from an extreme fondness for disputation. (Pringle, ibid., vol. I, p. 107)
Under the word “brethren” the Hebrews include all cousins and other relations, whatever may be the degree of affinity. (Pringle, ibid., vol. I, p. 283 / Commentary on John, [7:3])
John Wesley
‘I believe that He [Jesus] was made man, joining the human nature with the divine in one person; being conceived by the singular operation of the Holy Ghost, and born of the blessed Virgin Mary, who, as well after as before she brought Him forth, continued a pure and unspotted virgin’ (‘Letter to a Roman Catholic’, The Works of Rev. John Wesley, vol 10, p. 81).
St Augustine, Sermons 186.1 (early 5th century):
“In being born of a Virgin who chose to remain a Virgin even before she knew who was to be born of her, Christ wanted to approve virginity rather than to impose it. And he wanted virginity to be of free choice even in that woman in whom he took upon himself the form of a slave” (Holy Virginity 4:4 [A.D. 401]).
“It was not the visible sun, but its invisible Creator who consecrated this day for us, when the Virgin Mother, fertile of womb and integral in her virginity, brought him forth, made visible for us, by whom, when he was invisible, she too was created. A Virgin conceiving, a Virgin bearing, a Virgin pregnant, a Virgin bringing forth, a Virgin perpetual. Why do you wonder at this, O man?” (Sermons 186:1 [A.D. 411]).
“Heretics called Antidicomarites are those who contradict the perpetual virginity of Mary and affirm that after Christ was born she was joined as one with her husband” (Heresies 56 [A.D. 428]).
St Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologica, III.28.3 (13th century):
"Without any hesitation we must abhor the error of Helvidius, who dared to assert that Christ's Mother, after His Birth, was carnally known by Joseph, and bore other children.
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For, in the first place, this is derogatory to Christ's perfection: for as He is in His Godhead the Only-Begotten of the Father, being thus His Son in every respect perfect, so it was becoming that He should be the Only-begotten son of His Mother, as being her perfect offspring.
“Secondly, this error is an insult to the Holy Ghost, whose "shrine" was the virginal womb, wherein He had formed the flesh of Christ: wherefore it was unbecoming that it should be desecrated by intercourse with man.
“Thirdly, this is derogatory to the dignity and holiness of God's Mother: for thus she would seem to be most ungrateful, were she not content with such a Son; and were she, of her own accord, by carnal intercourse to forfeit that virginity which had been miraculously preserved in her.
“Fourthly, it would be tantamount to an imputation of extreme presumption in Joseph, to assume that he attempted to violate her whom by the angel's revelation he knew to have conceived by the Holy Ghost.
“We must therefore simply assert that the Mother of God, as she was a virgin in conceiving Him and a virgin in giving Him birth, did she remain a virgin ever afterwards."
The blessed Mary mother of God, is a perpetual virgin to the glory of God!
Mary conceived "without any detriment to her virginity, which remained inviolate even after his birth" (apostolic Council of the Lateran, 649)
Perpetual Virginity of Mary!
The Bible never says anyone is a biological child of Mary accept for Jesus Christ!
And the Bible says Her child is holy! And Her child is God!
Is 7:14 God provides a sign, a Virgin shall conceive and bear a son! (Singular, one son)
Ezekiel 44:2 “This gate shall remain shut; it shall not be opened, and no one shall enter by it; for the Lord, the God of Israel, has entered by it; therefore it shall remain shut.”
Song of Solomon 4:12 A garden inclosed is my sister, my spouse; a spring shut up, a fountain sealed.
(Mary had become the dwelling place of the Almighty, like the Ark of the Covenant in the Old Testament. Mary was a vessel consecrated to God alone?)
Matt 1:20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.
(The Bible says only the Holy Ghost conceived in Mary)
Matt 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.
(A son singular) (does James save his people?)
Lk 1:28 Hail Mary, full of Grace, the Lord is with thee!
Blessed art thou amongst all women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb.
(The fruit of Her womb is blessed and holy)
Lk 1:31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name Jesus.
(A son, singular)
Lk 1:34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?
(This verse imply’s a vow of perpetual virginity, She refuses even the exalted dignity of mother of God and mother of our savior if it means violating Her vow of perpetual virginity)
Lk 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
(Her son is God)
Matt 1:25 He knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name Jesus.
2 Samuel 6:23 tells us: Therefore Michal the daughter of Saul had no child UNTIL the day of her death.
Are we to assume that Michal had children after she died?
Until only states that they had no relation up to that point, the Bible does not say they had sex ever, before or after that point!
First born does not imply a second born. An only child is still first born!
No where does say Joseph a just and therefore chaste man has gone into Mary where the Holy Spirit has conceived, 2 Sam 12:24 And David comforted Bathsheba his wife, and went in unto her, and lay with her: and she bare a son, and he called his name Solomon: and the Lord loved him.
Brothers and sisters of Jesus?
They are not the children of Mary!
Is 7:14 a virgin shall conceive and bear a son!
(One son, singular)
James is the son of zebedee, and the other James is the son of Alpheus not Joseph!
Matt 10:2-3
In Hebrew culture any close relative can be called brother or sister, lot was called Abraham’s brother but was his nephew.
Gen 12:5 and Abram took Sarai his wife, and Lot his brother's son..
Gen 13:8 And Abram said unto Lot, Let there be no strife, I pray thee, between me and thee, and between my herdsmen and thy herdsmen; for we are Brothers.
The 12 sons of Jacob are brothers but all are not the children of Leah and all are not the children of Rachel! They may be brothers and sisters but they are simply not the children of Blessed Mary ever Virgin mother of God!
Jose’s, Simon Salome are children of another Mary!
Mk 15:40 There were also women looking on afar off: among whom was Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James the less and of Joses, and Salome;
“You had good reason to be horrified at the thought that another birth might issue from the same virginal womb from which Christ was born according to the flesh. For the Lord Jesus would never have chosen to be born of a virgin if he had ever judged that she would be so incontinent as to contaminate with the seed of human intercourse the birthplace of the Lord’s body, that court of the eternal king” (ancient writer)
Martin Luther
It is an article of faith that Mary is Mother of the Lord and still a virgin. … Christ, we believe, came forth from a womb left perfectly intact. (Weimer’s The Works of Luther, English translation by Pelikan, Concordia, St. Louis, v. 11, pp. 319-320; v. 6. p. 510.)
John Calvin
(On the Heretic Helvidius) Helvidius displayed excessive ignorance in concluding that Mary must have had many sons, because Christ’s “brothers” are sometimes mentioned. (Harmony of Matthew, Mark and Luke, sec. 39 [Geneva, 1562], vol. 2 / From Calvin’s Commentaries, translated by William Pringle, Grand Rapids, Michigan: Eerdmans, 1949, p.215; on Matthew 13:55)
[On Matt 1:25:] The inference he [Helvidius] drew from it was, that Mary remained a virgin no longer than till her first birth, and that afterwards she had other children by her husband . . . No just and well-grounded inference can be drawn from these words . . . as to what took place after the birth of Christ. He is called “first-born”; but it is for the sole purpose of informing us that he was born of a virgin . . . What took place afterwards the historian does not inform us . . . No man will obstinately keep up the argument, except from an extreme fondness for disputation. (Pringle, ibid., vol. I, p. 107)
Under the word “brethren” the Hebrews include all cousins and other relations, whatever may be the degree of affinity. (Pringle, ibid., vol. I, p. 283 / Commentary on John, [7:3])
John Wesley
‘I believe that He [Jesus] was made man, joining the human nature with the divine in one person; being conceived by the singular operation of the Holy Ghost, and born of the blessed Virgin Mary, who, as well after as before she brought Him forth, continued a pure and unspotted virgin’ (‘Letter to a Roman Catholic’, The Works of Rev. John Wesley, vol 10, p. 81).
St Augustine, Sermons 186.1 (early 5th century):
“In being born of a Virgin who chose to remain a Virgin even before she knew who was to be born of her, Christ wanted to approve virginity rather than to impose it. And he wanted virginity to be of free choice even in that woman in whom he took upon himself the form of a slave” (Holy Virginity 4:4 [A.D. 401]).
“It was not the visible sun, but its invisible Creator who consecrated this day for us, when the Virgin Mother, fertile of womb and integral in her virginity, brought him forth, made visible for us, by whom, when he was invisible, she too was created. A Virgin conceiving, a Virgin bearing, a Virgin pregnant, a Virgin bringing forth, a Virgin perpetual. Why do you wonder at this, O man?” (Sermons 186:1 [A.D. 411]).
“Heretics called Antidicomarites are those who contradict the perpetual virginity of Mary and affirm that after Christ was born she was joined as one with her husband” (Heresies 56 [A.D. 428]).
St Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologica, III.28.3 (13th century):
"Without any hesitation we must abhor the error of Helvidius, who dared to assert that Christ's Mother, after His Birth, was carnally known by Joseph, and bore other children.
Advertising
For, in the first place, this is derogatory to Christ's perfection: for as He is in His Godhead the Only-Begotten of the Father, being thus His Son in every respect perfect, so it was becoming that He should be the Only-begotten son of His Mother, as being her perfect offspring.
“Secondly, this error is an insult to the Holy Ghost, whose "shrine" was the virginal womb, wherein He had formed the flesh of Christ: wherefore it was unbecoming that it should be desecrated by intercourse with man.
“Thirdly, this is derogatory to the dignity and holiness of God's Mother: for thus she would seem to be most ungrateful, were she not content with such a Son; and were she, of her own accord, by carnal intercourse to forfeit that virginity which had been miraculously preserved in her.
“Fourthly, it would be tantamount to an imputation of extreme presumption in Joseph, to assume that he attempted to violate her whom by the angel's revelation he knew to have conceived by the Holy Ghost.
“We must therefore simply assert that the Mother of God, as she was a virgin in conceiving Him and a virgin in giving Him birth, did she remain a virgin ever afterwards."
The blessed Mary mother of God, is a perpetual virgin to the glory of God!
Matthew 27:52
And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
Lk 16:19 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:
20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,
21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
rev 5:8 And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.
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