Mother of James?

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Marymog

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What I believe is based on more than 500 years worth of teaching. It goes back to Jesus and even further back as the OT points to Jesus' coming and also we can find many lessons in its pages. I wonder why you would even think that. And the Catholic church was begun by a Roman emperor somewhere around 350 CE.
If you truly believe that John 14:26 was meant for you personally then you should write a book and give everyone else the True interpretation of Scripture and the rest of us should just shut up and listen to you.....o_O

Your 350 CE theory is off by a few years. Sadly you don't even know your own Christian history. The Church was first called Catholic about 340 years before 350CE kiddo.

Historical and logical Mary
 

Pearl

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Are the Protestant denominations that have some of the same doctrines as the Catholic Church, that you consider false, cults also? Or are they just misguided Christians since they don't agree with your doctrine?

Can you see how illogical and ridiculous your theories are? ;)
I'm sorry Mary but I think it is the Catholic theories that are ridiculous and have no real basis in scripture.

I don't belong to a protestant denomination. I belong to a fellowship that takes the bible seriously and discards all doctrines that aren't bible based.
 

Marymog

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Ridiculous, really? I personally experience the Holy Spirit and so do many of the other ladies on here and in the Church. For it is written:

“And afterward, I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your old men will dream dreams, your young men will see visions. Even on my servants, both men and women, I will pour out my Spirit in those days.” Joel 2:28
Yup, ridiculous. That passage does not make a promise that you or your girls will or can properly interpret Scripture. Once again your twisting of Scripture and logic are on full display.
 
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Pearl

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That passage from John 14 was meant for the Apostles only. You should read it in context. Putting your theory into practice, that the Advocate will remind every Christian of everything Jesus said from the death of Christ until the end of the ages for thousands of years, is a ludicrous and illogical theory.

2 Peter 3:16
Seeing that I am part of the Royal Priesthood I believe it is for all born-again believers who are Spirit filled.

But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God’s special possession, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light. 1 Peter 2:9

That's me and all others who truly belong to Jesus. And I hope you will claim that for yourself one day when your eyes are opened to the truth and not being deceived by false teaching.
 

Marymog

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I'm sorry Mary but I think it is the Catholic theories that are ridiculous and have no real basis in scripture.

I don't belong to a protestant denomination. I belong to a fellowship that takes the bible seriously and discards all doctrines that aren't bible based.
Sooooo you don't even know what the definition of Protestant is??? If you did you would realize you are Protestant :cool:

You and your group take the bible seriously but no other group in the last 2,000 years of Christianity has and THEY couldn't figure what doctrines are bible based...only your tiny group can????????? F A S C I N A T I N G!!!!!!

mary
 

Marymog

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Seeing that I am part of the Royal Priesthood I believe it is for all born-again believers who are Spirit filled.

But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God’s special possession, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light. 1 Peter 2:9

That's me and all others who truly belong to Jesus. And I hope you will claim that for yourself one day when your eyes are opened to the truth and not being deceived by false teaching.
Well that changes everything....I didn't know I was talking to Royalty. You already made it clear you are infallible but I didn't know you were Royalty!!

Thank you for your time....

PS....I'm not being deceived by a false teaching....I have rejected your teachings multiple times......;)
 

Pearl

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If you truly believe that John 14:26 was meant for you personally then you should write a book and give everyone else the True interpretation of Scripture and the rest of us should just shut up and listen to you.....o_O

Your 350 CE theory is off by a few years. Sadly you don't even know your own Christian history. The Church was first called Catholic about 340 years before 350CE kiddo.

Historical and logical Mary
Many books have already been written on the subject Mary by people called to write them. But perhaps they don't sell them in Catholic bookshops.

As for the timing of the birth of the Catholic church and all its teachings it was Constantine a Roman emperor who ordained that believers should stop meeting in homes as they had been doing up till then, and meet in designated buildings which later became known as churches. I have been reading about it.
 

Pearl

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Sooooo you don't even know what the definition of Protestant is??? If you did you would realize you are Protestant :cool:

You and your group take the bible seriously but no other group in the last 2,000 years of Christianity has and THEY couldn't figure what doctrines are bible based...only your tiny group can????????? F A S C I N A T I N G!!!!!!

mary
Any one who is Christian but not Catholic is a protestant because they shun the Catholic teachings so in that way yes I am. But I do not belong to a denominational church with teaching, doctrines and traditions that go back hundreds of years. I belong to a group who broke away from that, a group made of Christians from all sorts of disciplines including Catholic. We strive to know the truth and live as the early Christians did. I don't do religion. I don't do traditions, trappings and rituals. I don't do church. I am church. And it is wonderful to be so free. I wish you could experience it.
 

Pearl

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Well that changes everything....I didn't know I was talking to Royalty. You already made it clear you are infallible but I didn't know you were Royalty!!

Thank you for your time....

PS....I'm not being deceived by a false teaching....I have rejected your teachings multiple times......;)
If you are a true Christian Mary then you too are a part of that Royal Priesthood. And I do not for one minute doubt your sincerity and that you seriously believe what you have said to me. But to be saved you need to know the Saviour. Not just know about him or his mother, you really need to know Him in a personal way by asking him into your life. I guarantee that if you do that you will notice a massive difference.
 

Pearl

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Good night Mary, I going to get my pyjamas on now and read for a while with a mince pie and a glass of milk before I go to bed. Jesus loves you. Hugs.
 

theefaith

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Ummm....I did and billions of other Catholics/Orthodox did "find out for ourselves by reading the and studying the scriptures". But since what we believe is opposite of what your 500 year teaching believes we will always be wrong and you will always be right unless you tell us we are right.

Sooooo how can Protestantism be infallible when you all believe different things and AGREE with The Church on some things? Your logic makes zero sense kiddo...

BTW...I don't think that Protestantism is a cult and filled with false doctrines sooooo you don't know what I believe. ;)

Mary

then what is the one true church founded by Christ? Matt 16:18 jn 10:16
 

theefaith

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Even apostles can be wrong sometime. Even popes can. They are all just human men after all.

not when speaking to universal church founded by Christ on Peter matt 16:18

jn 16:13 (the apostles )

I suppose even Christ teaches error Lk 10:16
 

Illuminator

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As an Evangelical, I had long regarded the reading of Ezekiel 44:1-2 to support Mary’s perpetual virginity as mere ‘proof-texting.’ I thought the Fathers were beginning with this passage and then trying to build a doctrine of perpetual virginity on it. But the more I saw how the early Church (including the New Testament authors) linked the tabernacle, the temple, and the Body of Christ, and the roles of Mary, the ark, and the gate of the temple, the more I came to realize that the Church’s faith in Mary’s perpetual virginity was not derived from Ezekiel 44:1-2 any more than her faith in the virgin birth was derived from Isaiah 7:14. . . .
John Armstrong vs. Church Fathers Re Perpetual Virginity | Dave Armstrong (patheos.com)
 

BreadOfLife

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We should all read our bibles prayerfully and with the guidance of the Holy Spirit. Not just rely on somebody else to tell us what the scriptures mean. Why do you think we shouldn't? Don't you rely on the Holy Spirit working either in your own life to guide you into the meaning of scriptures or to guide others so that they can teach truth?

John 14:26
But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.
CONTEXT.
You need to read the Bible in its proper CONTEXT.

WHO was Jesus speaking to when He made the promise about the Holy Spirit in John 14:26??
He was talking to the TWLEVE at the Last Supper - the first leaders of His Church. He also reminded them two chapters later - at the SAME supper table - of the following promise:

John 16:12-15
“I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide YOU into ALL truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to YOU the things that are to come. He will glorify me, for he will take what is mine and declare it to YOU. All that the Father has is mine; therefore I said that he will take what is mine and declare it to YOU.

This promise wasn't made to the crowds or to each individual. If is WAS - then there wouldn't be tens of thousands of disjointed and perpetually-splintering Protestant sects who ALL teach different doctrines - yet ALL claim to have been "led" to this confusion by the Holy Spirit.
He was speaking to the Apostles and their Successors.

The Holy Spirit guides His Church - the Body as a WHOLE - NOT each individual acting as a separate entity from the Church.

Christ to the LEADERS of His Church:
Matt. 28:19-20
Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, TEACHING THEM to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”
 

Brakelite

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That passage from John 14 was meant for the Apostles only. You should read it in context. Putting your theory into practice, that the Advocate will remind every Christian of everything Jesus said from the death of Christ until the end of the ages for thousands of years, is a ludicrous and illogical theory.

2 Peter 3:16
The passage from John 14 was meant for you and everyone else. But it doesn't mean what you are claiming it means. That's another one of your strawmen, and the way you claim we think it is interpreted is ludicrous...because it is wrong...but you also are wrong if you truly think that is what Protestants believe. The holy Spirit helps us as we read scripture. The more in tune with Him, the better we understand. The more we seek and hunger after truth, the more He reveals. And as Jesus said, the holy Spirit reveals Jesus. It is Jesus that is the subject of scripture.
I did and billions of other Catholics/Orthodox did "find out for ourselves by reading the and studying the scriptures"
And that is one of the most glaringly ridiculous and dishonest statements I have read from any Catholic on this forum. Billions of Catholics over the last 2000 years became Catholic because they read scripture??? What a lot of nonsense. The Catholic church spent much of its existence withholding scripture from its own people. When people were discovered to have copies of Bibles, meticulously handwritten and copied from those passed on from their forbears in apostolic and post apostolic times, they became Christians, and enemies of the Catholic church and the Roman church would confiscate them and burn them. Even today it is forbidden for a Catholic to decide for himself the meaning of scripture. Your statement above is totally contradictory to Catholic philosophy. On top of that, scripture has never been the foundation for Catholic dogma. Never. Tradition, and the magisterium's interpretation of tradition, lays the foundation for Catholic teaching. Which is why the Catholic church is NOT the source or foundation of truth. If scripture was the foundation for truth in Catholicism, the Catholic church would be observing the Sabbath.
 
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BreadOfLife

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The passage from John 14 was meant for you and everyone else. But it doesn't mean what you are claiming it means. That's another one of your strawmen, and the way you claim we think it is interpreted is ludicrous...because it is wrong...but you also are wrong if you truly think that is what Protestants believe. The holy Spirit helps us as we read scripture. The more in tune with Him, the better we understand. The more we seek and hunger after truth, the more He reveals. And as Jesus said, the holy Spirit reveals Jesus. It is Jesus that is the subject of scripture.

And that is one of the most glaringly ridiculous and dishonest statements I have read from any Catholic on this forum. Billions of Catholics over the last 2000 years became Catholic because they read scripture??? What a lot of nonsense. The Catholic church spent much of its existence withholding scripture from its own people. When people were discovered to have copies of Bibles, meticulously handwritten and copied from those passed on from their forbears in apostolic and post apostolic times, they became Christians, and enemies of the Catholic church and the Roman church would confiscate them and burn them. Even today it is forbidden for a Catholic to decide for himself the meaning of scripture. Your statement above is totally contradictory to Catholic philosophy. On top of that, scripture has never been the foundation for Catholic dogma. Never. Tradition, and the magisterium's interpretation of tradition, lays the foundation for Catholic teaching. Which is why the Catholic church is NOT the source or foundation of truth. If scripture was the foundation for truth in Catholicism, the Catholic church would be observing the Sabbath.
Ummmm, YOU accuse @Marymog of being "dishonest" - yet YOU just regurgitated some of the biggest lies in ALL of Christendom.
Let's start with your whopper about the Church "withholding" the Scriptures from the people - an historically-bankrupt statement if there ever was one.

First of all - the Scriptures have been READ to the people since the beginning. This is completely in line with Rom. 10:7, which states explicitly:
"So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ."

Not only does the Liturgy of the Word encompass the entire FIRST HALF of the Mass - the Mass itself is entirely based on Scripture
(Acts 2:46-47, 1 Cor. 10:16, Matt. 26:26-29, Mark 14:22-25, Luke 22:19-20, John 6:29-71, 1 Cor. 11:27-30, Rev. 1:10, Rev. 1:12, 2:5, Rev. 1:13, 4:4, 6:11, 7:9, 15:6, 19:13-14, Rev. 2:5, 16, 21; 3:3; 16:11, Rev. 15:3-4, Rev. 4:4, 5:14; 11:16, 14:3, 19:4, Rev. 5:8, 6:9-11, 8:3-4, Rev. 4:8, Rev. 2:17, Rev. 5:8, 8:3-4, Rev. 6:9, Rev. 5, Rev. 8:3, 11:1, 14:18, 16:7, Rev. 14:4, Rev. 15:7, 16:1-4, 8, 10, 12, 17; 21:9, Rev. 17, 19:9, Rev. 19:1, 3, 4, 6, Rev. 5:14; 7:12; 19:4).

Secondly - your woeful-ignorance of history shows that you are completely unaware that up until the 19th century - as much as 85-90% of the general population was FUNCTIONALLY ILLITERATE. So, not only was there NO need to "keep Bibles away" from the general public - they had NO USE for them because they couldn't read.
This, coupled with the fact that a handwritten Bible took YEARS to transcribe so they were very expensive and difficult to come by in the first place. They were chained to pulpits to protect them from being stolen.

It was the RICH who were interested in having their own copies made - and THIS is where the problem began because the spurious and heretical versions that were being transcribed due to poor translation. THIS is why the Church forbade owning and copying UNAUTHORIZED Bibles.

As to your asinine claim that NO Church dogma is based on Scripture - I hereby challenge you right now to NAME ONE.
Show me the teaching fro the Catechism - and show me that there is "NO" Scriptural basis.

Finally - your lie regarding the idea that Catholics are NOT allowed to interpret the meaning of Scripture for themselves - SHOW me that teaching as well - from the Catechism.

I eagerly await your educated response . . .
 
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theefaith

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Regarding Mat. 13:55 and Mk. 6:3, two of the four "brethren" are James and Judas of Alphaeus (cf. Mat. 10:2-3, Lk. 6:15-16, Act. 1:13). The third, Joseph, is identified in Mk. 15:40 as the brother of James of Alphaeus. The fourth, Simon, is identified in Mat. 13:55 and Mk. 6:3 as the brother of Joseph, James, and Judas of Alphaeus. Therefore, all four are were the sons of Alphaeus, not St. Joseph and the Blessed Virgin Mary.
 

theefaith

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Ummmm, YOU accuse @Marymog of being "dishonest" - yet YOU just regurgitated some of the biggest lies in ALL of Christendom.
Let's start with your whopper about the Church "withholding" the Scriptures from the people - an historically-bankrupt statement if there ever was one.

First of all - the Scriptures have been READ to the people since the beginning. This is completely in line with Rom. 10:7, which states explicitly:
"So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ."

Not only does the Liturgy of the Word encompass the entire FIRST HALF of the Mass - the Mass itself is entirely based on Scripture
(Acts 2:46-47, 1 Cor. 10:16, Matt. 26:26-29, Mark 14:22-25, Luke 22:19-20, John 6:29-71, 1 Cor. 11:27-30, Rev. 1:10, Rev. 1:12, 2:5, Rev. 1:13, 4:4, 6:11, 7:9, 15:6, 19:13-14, Rev. 2:5, 16, 21; 3:3; 16:11, Rev. 15:3-4, Rev. 4:4, 5:14; 11:16, 14:3, 19:4, Rev. 5:8, 6:9-11, 8:3-4, Rev. 4:8, Rev. 2:17, Rev. 5:8, 8:3-4, Rev. 6:9, Rev. 5, Rev. 8:3, 11:1, 14:18, 16:7, Rev. 14:4, Rev. 15:7, 16:1-4, 8, 10, 12, 17; 21:9, Rev. 17, 19:9, Rev. 19:1, 3, 4, 6, Rev. 5:14; 7:12; 19:4).

Secondly - your woeful-ignorance of history shows that you are completely unaware that up until the 19th century - as much as 85-90% of the general population was FUNCTIONALLY ILLITERATE. So, not only was there NO need to "keep Bibles away" from the general public - they had NO USE for them because they couldn't read.
This, coupled with the fact that a handwritten Bible took YEARS to transcribe so they were very expensive and difficult to come by in the first place. They were chained to pulpits to protect them from being stolen.

It was the RICH who were interested in having their own copies made - and THIS is where the problem began because the spurious and heretical versions that were being transcribed due to poor translation. THIS is why the Church forbade owning and copying UNAUTHORIZED Bibles.

As to your asinine claim that NO Church dogma is based on Scripture - I hereby challenge you right now to NAME ONE.
Show me the teaching fro the Catechism - and show me that there is "NO" Scriptural basis.

Finally - your lie regarding the idea that Catholics are NOT allowed to interpret the meaning of Scripture for themselves - SHOW me that teaching as well - from the Catechism.

I eagerly await your educated response . . .

fundementlists never can understand authority


God always establishes order in men and the people’s obedience to hierarchical authority!

The angelic order!
The church order!
The family order!
The civil order!

All require obedience to hierarchical authority!

The church is not a democracy but a kingdom!

there is only one faith, you cannot read for yourself and make your own faith, eph 4:5
 
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BreadOfLife

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Seeing that I am part of the Royal Priesthood I believe it is for all born-again believers who are Spirit filled.

But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God’s special possession, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light. 1 Peter 2:9

That's me and all others who truly belong to Jesus. And I hope you will claim that for yourself one day when your eyes are opened to the truth and not being deceived by false teaching.
If you are a true Christian Mary then you too are a part of that Royal Priesthood. And I do not for one minute doubt your sincerity and that you seriously believe what you have said to me. But to be saved you need to know the Saviour. Not just know about him or his mother, you really need to know Him in a personal way by asking him into your life. I guarantee that if you do that you will notice a massive difference.
Catholics ARE part of a royal priesthood.
We simply recognize what the BIBLE says about priests . . .

In the Old Testament, there were three levels of Priests:
- The High Priest
- The Levitical/Ministerial Priesthood
- The rest of the people were a General Priesthood of believers.


In the New Testament, there are also three levels of Priests:
- Jesus, our High Priest (1 Tim. 2:5, Heb. 7:22-25)
- The Ministerial Priests (James 5:14-15)
- The General Priesthood of all Christians (1 Peter 2:5-9).


Just as with all New Testament fulfillments, the fulfillment is always more glorious than the Old Testament type.

Finally, in the Epistle of Jude, we read the warning about those who would usurp Church Authority by assuming the ministerial priesthood without the Church’s consent (Jude 1:11). In this passage he compares them to the Rebellion of Korah and their subsequent punishment (Numbers 16:1-35; 31:16).

Hope that helps . . .
 
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theefaith

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Catholics ARE part of a royal priesthood.
We simply recognize what the BIBLE says about priests . . .

In the Old Testament, there were three levels of Priests:
- The High Priest
- The Levitical/Ministerial Priesthood
- The rest of the people were a General Priesthood of believers.


In the New Testament, there are also three levels of Priests:
- Jesus, our High Priest (1 Tim. 2:5, Heb. 7:22-25)
- The Ministerial Priests (James 5:14-15)
- The General Priesthood of all Christians (1 Peter 2:5-9).


Just as with all New Testament fulfillments, the fulfillment is always more glorious than the Old Testament type.

Finally, in the Epistle of Jude, we read the warning about those who would usurp Church Authority by assuming the ministerial priesthood without the Church’s consent (Jude 1:11). In this passage he compares them to the Rebellion of Korah and their subsequent punishment (Numbers 16:1-35; 31:16).

Hope that helps . . .


“True Christian” how do you become a “true Christian”?
 
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