Most accurate modern translation?

[Aunty Jane]

Is Jesus God?

After all that was posted to you....this is your reply?
You are going to dismiss all that was presented to you with one sentence?

From my studies, I do not find even a hint that Jesus ever said he was Almighty God incarnate. There is no statement from Yahweh that his son and he share “deity” with the holy spirit either. If you can provide such statements, those that do not rely on suggestion or mere inference, we might have something to talk about.

I base all my beliefs on Scripture....very carefully studied Scripture.

So we have ;
Jesus as a prophet or some entity without diety?

No...Jesus is the unique “son of God” as he said he was.....and he is “divine” (a meaning of the word “theos”) but not a “deity” who ever accepted worship. He accepted obeisance as his position demanded, but never worship. He is God’s “holy servant”. (Acts 4:27, 30)...He is God’s “High Priest”....both are roles of service to God.
Jesus has a God whom he worships even in heaven. (Rev 3:12) He always has.

Water baptism as a fluke?

No, it is a necessary requirement as Jesus himself set the pattern....he had no sin to repent of so his baptism represented something else.....the beginning of a spiritual journey as redeemer, that would end in his death and resurrection. His disciples, especially his elect, would also need to be baptised in like manner.....to be “born again” as spirit “sons of God” and “brothers” of Christ.

God the Father, God the Son, And God the Holy Spirit as heresy?

This is an invention of “the Catholic church”...only “God the Father” is mentioned in Scripture...there is no “God the Son” or “God the Holy Spirit”....please find a direct statement that says otherwise.

The Gospels Not written to believers? Not relevant?

The Scriptures as a whole are one book from God to communicate with his human children.
All we need to know is recorded for our benefit, whether we have a heavenly hope or an earthly one. All the principles recorded in the Bible benefit all Christians. We are all held to the same standard of faith and dedication to the Father whom Jesus represented so well.

No sin nature expressed in Romans?

Since the Bible says we all sin...then there is your answer. (Rom 5:12)
No child of Adam is exempt from the sin that is in our flesh, and carried out by the mind and body. We have to fight our sinful inclinations.

I think watchtower teaches exactly that doctrine.

Your source of information is very flawed....but not surprising.....Jesus told us that we would cop the very same treatment from the ones who claimed to worship the same God as he did. (John 15:18-21)
Why did Jesus receives so much opposition and such an ignominious death as a blasphemer at the hands of his own people?
Who were the real heretics and blasphemers?
History repeats.

 

[Jack]

The devil and his angels are not humans.

Jesus is speaking directly to humans who will spend eternity in Hell with Satan.

Many people were called gods in the Bible according to their culture. Kings and certainly one who was just raised from the dead would have been called a god.

John 20 Thomas said to Jesus, "My Lord and my GOD"!

 

[Wick Stick]

There is not one verse that says Jesus is God the Son. Nor has there ever been a teaching on it anywhere in the Bible. The Jews never saw it anywhere in the entire Old Testament nor anyone in the New Testament ever taught it. The Catholics who invented this nonsense have used only about 8 verses that they have to piece together from statements that are scattered all over the New Testament. One should think if such nonsense was true and important that it would have been taught by someone. And it is not. Only in the minds of Catholics who cannot explain it.

I didn't say anything about 'God the Son."

The whole of the New Testament affirms that Jesus Christ is Lord. Both Christ and Lord are divine titles.

I continue to question how one can call themselves Christian if Christ is not their Lord.

 

[Aunty Jane]

I continue to question how one can call themselves Christian if Christ is not their Lord.

Calling Jesus “Lord” is not calling him “God”.....

”Lord” is a title roughly equivalent to addressing someone of importance as “Sir”......slaves in Bible times addressed their masters as “Lord”.....Sarah called her husband “Lord” out of respect....she didn’t think he was God. (1 Pet 3:5-6)

Jesus is the “Lord and savior” of all who embrace and obey his teaching, which he said came from his Father (John 7:14-17).....he was the one conveying his Father’s teaching to his disciples as the Jews had been led astray by the Pharisees for centuries. Jesus was sent to “the lost sheep of the house of Israel” whom their appointed shepherds were neglecting.....he was not sent to its incorrigible leaders who ended up plotting his murder.

 

[Wick Stick]

Calling Jesus “Lord” is not calling him “God”.....

Oh, but it IS.

There is lord and there is LORD. The former is a title - owner. The latter is the proper name of God. The Jews do not write or say God's proper name, substituting the former word in common conversation.

Jesus Christ is LORD.

 

[rebuilder 454]

After all that was posted to you....this is your reply?
You are going to dismiss all that was presented to you with one sentence?

From my studies, I do not find even a hint that Jesus ever said he was Almighty God incarnate. There is no statement from Yahweh that his son and he share “deity” with the holy spirit either. If you can provide such statements, those that do not rely on suggestion or mere inference, we might have something to talk about.

I base all my beliefs on Scripture....very carefully studied Scripture.

No...Jesus is the unique “son of God” as he said he was.....and he is “divine” (a meaning of the word “theos”) but not a “deity” who ever accepted worship. He accepted obeisance as his position demanded, but never worship. He is God’s “holy servant”. (Acts 4:27, 30)...He is God’s “High Priest”....both are roles of service to God.
Jesus has a God whom he worships even in heaven. (Rev 3:12) He always has.

No, it is a necessary requirement as Jesus himself set the pattern....he had no sin to repent of so his baptism represented something else.....the beginning of a spiritual journey as redeemer, that would end in his death and resurrection. His disciples, especially his elect, would also need to be baptised in like manner.....to be “born again” as spirit “sons of God” and “brothers” of Christ.

This is an invention of “the Catholic church”...only “God the Father” is mentioned in Scripture...there is no “God the Son” or “God the Holy Spirit”....please find a direct statement that says otherwise.

The Scriptures as a whole are one book from God to communicate with his human children.
All we need to know is recorded for our benefit, whether we have a heavenly hope or an earthly one. All the principles recorded in the Bible benefit all Christians. We are all held to the same standard of faith and dedication to the Father whom Jesus represented so well.

Since the Bible says we all sin...then there is your answer. (Rom 5:12)
No child of Adam is exempt from the sin that is in our flesh, and carried out by the mind and body. We have to fight our sinful inclinations.

Your source of information is very flawed....but not surprising.....Jesus told us that we would cop the very same treatment from the ones who claimed to worship the same God as he did. (John 15:18-21)
Why did Jesus receives so much opposition and such an ignominious death as a blasphemer at the hands of his own people?
Who were the real heretics and blasphemers?
History repeats.

What faith are you?
Watchtower?

Calling Jesus “Lord” is not calling him “God”.....

”Lord” is a title roughly equivalent to addressing someone of importance as “Sir”......slaves in Bible times addressed their masters as “Lord”.....Sarah called her husband “Lord” out of respect....she didn’t think he was God. (1 Pet 3:5-6)

Jesus is the “Lord and savior” of all who embrace and obey his teaching, which he said came from his Father (John 7:14-17).....he was the one conveying his Father’s teaching to his disciples as the Jews had been led astray by the Pharisees for centuries. Jesus was sent to “the lost sheep of the house of Israel” whom their appointed shepherds were neglecting.....he was not sent to its incorrigible leaders who ended up plotting his murder.

It had to be God on the cross.
Only God can resurrect.
You are a heretic.

 

[rebuilder 454]

It does indeed worry me that so many who say they are Christian have no idea who Jesus is. I have friends who wonder if you can even be saved if you don't know who Jesus is. There is not one verse that says Jesus is God the Son. Nor has there ever been a teaching on it anywhere in the Bible. The Jews never saw it anywhere in the entire Old Testament nor anyone in the New Testament ever taught it. The Catholics who invented this nonsense have used only about 8 verses that they have to piece together from statements that are scattered all over the New Testament. One should think if such nonsense was true and important that it would have been taught by someone. And it is not. Only in the minds of Catholics who cannot explain it.

jn 20
26 And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you.

27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.

28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Oh, but it IS.

There is lord and there is LORD. The former is a title - owner. The latter is the proper name of God. The Jews do not write or say God's proper name, substituting the former word in common conversation.

Any genuine student of the Bible knows that YHWH is the personal name of the true God.....it’s there in plain sight throughout the Jewish Tanakh.

If the divine name was still in its rightful place, we would see the distinction between “LORD” and “Lord” very clearly in our Scripture....but the Jews disobeyed their God and found a way to lose it. It wasn’t “too sacred to be uttered” and God never said so. The Bible writers used God’s name freely, frequently when addressing him, and always with reverence.
Instead of punishing the culprits who were “taking God’s name in vain” (using it in frivolous oaths that they no intention of keeping) they simply outlawed the verbal expression of it whilst retaining it in their Scripture, replacing the name with “Adonai” (Lord) instead.
A mere title was God’s illustrious name...a name no one else had because there was no other God.
The devil, ever alert to deception, then created a different “god” to the one Jesus represented...and fed him to the counterfeit religion that he created. Jesus foretold it....Christendom pretends it never happened, but the apostasy was already beginning at the end of the first century....held at bay until the last apostle Joh was given his Revelation and concluded what is now the canon of Christian Scripture.

Jesus said he had come to make his Father’s name known to his disciples....not his name.(John 17:6, 26)

Jesus Christ is LORD.

Yes he is, just not the capital letter “”LORD”......”Yahweh is one” (Deut 6:4)....not three.

 

[rebuilder 454]

After all that was posted to you....this is your reply?
You are going to dismiss all that was presented to you with one sentence?

From my studies, I do not find even a hint that Jesus ever said he was Almighty God incarnate. There is no statement from Yahweh that his son and he share “deity” with the holy spirit either. If you can provide such statements, those that do not rely on suggestion or mere inference, we might have something to talk about.

I base all my beliefs on Scripture....very carefully studied Scripture.

No...Jesus is the unique “son of God” as he said he was.....and he is “divine” (a meaning of the word “theos”) but not a “deity” who ever accepted worship. He accepted obeisance as his position demanded, but never worship. He is God’s “holy servant”. (Acts 4:27, 30)...He is God’s “High Priest”....both are roles of service to God.
Jesus has a God whom he worships even in heaven. (Rev 3:12) He always has.

No, it is a necessary requirement as Jesus himself set the pattern....he had no sin to repent of so his baptism represented something else.....the beginning of a spiritual journey as redeemer, that would end in his death and resurrection. His disciples, especially his elect, would also need to be baptised in like manner.....to be “born again” as spirit “sons of God” and “brothers” of Christ.

This is an invention of “the Catholic church”...only “God the Father” is mentioned in Scripture...there is no “God the Son” or “God the Holy Spirit”....please find a direct statement that says otherwise.

The Scriptures as a whole are one book from God to communicate with his human children.
All we need to know is recorded for our benefit, whether we have a heavenly hope or an earthly one. All the principles recorded in the Bible benefit all Christians. We are all held to the same standard of faith and dedication to the Father whom Jesus represented so well.

Since the Bible says we all sin...then there is your answer. (Rom 5:12)
No child of Adam is exempt from the sin that is in our flesh, and carried out by the mind and body. We have to fight our sinful inclinations.

Your source of information is very flawed....but not surprising.....Jesus told us that we would cop the very same treatment from the ones who claimed to worship the same God as he did. (John 15:18-21)
Why did Jesus receives so much opposition and such an ignominious death as a blasphemer at the hands of his own people?
Who were the real heretics and blasphemers?
History repeats.

Your watchtower source is flawed.

jn 1
18 No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

jn 1
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God

2 The same was in the beginning with God.

3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

heb 1
5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee
(watchtower says Jesus is an angel)
5 ....when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

Thomas called him God and worshipped him in johns gospel

heb 3
4 For every house is builded by some man; but he that built all things is God.

here is something watchtower will never teach you;
gal 3
20 Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.

21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.

22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.


+++++++++Watchtower misses the entire point of the resurrection.+++++++++++++
We see in gal 3 that no law could impart life.
20 Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.
21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

The resurrection of Jesus was by Jesus.
THAT IS THE IMPARTATION OF LIFE.
THAT IS WHY IT COULD NOT BE A MERE MAN ON THE CROSS.
NO MAN COULD RESURRECT.
You watchtowers heard it here first.
Your leaders are heretics and blind

 

[Jack]

It tells you right in the verse what the all things are. They are thrones, dominions, principalities and powers. Things that Christ will need to govern the body of Christ when he returns.

For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

Maybe this will help. The wife asks her husband if there's any cookies left. He replies by telling her that your son ate all the cookies last nigh. The word "all" here does not mean little Johnny ate all the cookies in the world. The "all" in the above verse are thrones, dominions, principalities and powers.

You're playing JW word games.

 

[Peterlag]

jn 20
26 And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you.

27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.

28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

It was common in those days to call people a god. Kings were often called a god and anyone just getting up from the dead would often be called divine or a god.

 

[Peterlag]

You're playing JW word games.

What is a JW?

 

[Peterlag]

I didn't say anything about 'God the Son."

The whole of the New Testament affirms that Jesus Christ is Lord. Both Christ and Lord are divine titles.

I continue to question how one can call themselves Christian if Christ is not their Lord.

Perhaps we are on the same page. I too believe Jesus has become both Lord and Christ.

 

[Aunty Jane]

What faith are you?
Watchtower?

No, I am not “Watchtower”.....that is actually a publishing company…...a Bible Society producing free literature to help people understand the Bible, and what it really says, rather than the rabble of Christendom who can’t quite agree on anything except the three main foundational teachings, none of which come from Scripture....a three in one god….an immortal soul…and a hell of eternal conscious torment….all lies.

I am one of Jehovah’s Witnesses by choice, having been raised in Christendom and left in disgust as it’s utter disobedience in fulfilling the commands of the Christ, who taught only what his Father taught him.

It had to be God on the cross.
Only God can resurrect.

If it was God on the cross, please tell me how an immortal God can die?

The redeemer had to pay back what was required by God’s law…”an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth, a life for a life”….Adam lost perfect sinless life for all his offspring, so that sin and death would dominate their lives…..only a perfect sinless life could pay the price to release them….Jesus did not need to be God to pay the ransom….all he had to be was sinless.….an equivalent of Adam. Is that a difficult concept?

You are a heretic

You say “heretic”? I laugh because the real heretics are the ones pointing fingers at us oblivious to the fact that none of what they have been fed through their disunited church systems comes from anything but badly translated and manipulated Scripture. (I will address your next post to show you how manipulated your interpretation of Scripture is…but only if you have your mind and heart open, otherwise it will be a wasted exercise.)

On leaving that church system, I was determined to find the God of the Bible.....in my search I investigated many different denominations and faiths, but did not find him……all by and large were just carbon copies of each other with minor differences.

I am grateful to say that Jehovah found me…a “lost sheep” and because of Christ's disciples‘ personal visit to my door as Jesus commanded, (Matt 10:11-14; Acts 20:20) I had all my Bible questions answered directly from my own Bible…an old illustrated KJV that my grandmother gave me as a child.

What I learned after two solid years of study confirmed what I had been feeling all along…that Christendom could not possibly be the true faith that Christ began…they only believed what they were told to believe and their only accepted teachers were those who had attended theological collages and who only taught church doctrine. Go outside of that and they are lost.

I knew that the church’s doctrines were not true, and didn’t follow the teachings of Jesus at all….I had it confirmed and will staunchly defend the truth.

If you want to use the broad brush to sweep what I have shared under the rug, that is up to you….I know what I believe, and why I believe it after 50 years of careful study. I am a “Beroean” and proud of my brotherhood who cop so much flack from those who resemble the ones who caused Jesus and his disciples so much trouble in the first century. The bad mouthing and false accusations that people who claimed to worship the same God inflicted on them….Jesus told us to expect the same. (John 15:18-21)

Won’t it be interesting to see who Jesus identifies as the real heretics, come the judgment? (Matt 7:21-23)

 

[Peterlag]

Jesus is speaking directly to humans who will spend eternity in Hell with Satan.

John 20 Thomas said to Jesus, "My Lord and my GOD"!

It was common in those days to call someone a god. Kings were often called gods and anyone just getting up from the dead would have been called divine or a god.

 

[rebuilder 454]

AHEM,

isaiah 9
6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this.

8 The Lord sent a word into Jacob, and it hath lighted upon Israel.

 

[Jack]

It was common in those days to call someone a god. Kings were often called gods and anyone just getting up from the dead would have been called divine or a god.

Thomas didn't say "a god". He called Jesus "My Lord and my God". You're still playing word games. You sure sound JW.

 

[Peterlag]

Thomas didn't say "a god". He called Jesus "My Lord and my God". You're still playing word games. You sure sound JW.

There has never been a teaching on this trinity anywhere in the Bible. The Jews never saw it anywhere in the entire Old Testament nor anyone in the New Testament ever taught it. The Catholics who invented this nonsense have used only about 8 verses that they have to piece together from statements that are scattered all over the New Testament. One should think if such nonsense was true and important that it would have been taught by someone. And it is not. Only in the minds of Catholics who cannot explain it.

 

[rebuilder 454]

No, I am not “Watchtower”.....that is actually a publishing company…...a Bible Society producing free literature to help people understand the Bible, and what it really says, rather than the rabble of Christendom who can’t quite agree on anything except the three main foundational teachings, none of which come from Scripture....a three in one god….an immortal soul…and a hell of eternal conscious torment….all lies.

I am one of Jehovah’s Witnesses by choice, having been raised in Christendom and left in disgust as it’s utter disobedience in fulfilling the commands of the Christ, who taught only what his Father taught him.

If it was God on the cross, please tell me how an immortal God can die?

The redeemer had to pay back what was required by God’s law…”an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth, a life for a life”….Adam lost perfect sinless life for all his offspring, so that sin and death would dominate their lives…..only a perfect sinless life could pay the price to release them….Jesus did not need to be God to pay the ransom….all he had to be was sinless.….an equivalent of Adam. Is that a difficult concept?

You say “heretic”? I laugh because the real heretics are the ones pointing fingers at us oblivious to the fact that none of what they have been fed through their disunited church systems comes from anything but badly translated and manipulated Scripture. (I will address your next post to show you how manipulated your interpretation of Scripture is…but only if you have your mind and heart open, otherwise it will be a wasted exercise.)

On leaving that church system, I was determined to find the God of the Bible.....in my search I investigated many different denominations and faiths, but did not find him……all by and large were just carbon copies of each other with minor differences.

I am grateful to say that Jehovah found me…a “lost sheep” and because of Christ's disciples‘ personal visit to my door as Jesus commanded, (Matt 10:11-14; Acts 20:20) I had all my Bible questions answered directly from my own Bible…an old illustrated KJV that my grandmother gave me as a child.

What I learned after two solid years of study confirmed what I had been feeling all along…that Christendom could not possibly be the true faith that Christ began…they only believed what they were told to believe and their only accepted teachers were those who had attended theological collages and who only taught church doctrine. Go outside of that and they are lost.

I knew that the church’s doctrines were not true, and didn’t follow the teachings of Jesus at all….I had it confirmed and will staunchly defend the truth.

If you want to use the broad brush to sweep what I have shared under the rug, that is up to you….I know what I believe, and why I believe it after 50 years of careful study. I am a “Beroean” and proud of my brotherhood who cop so much flack from those who resemble the ones who caused Jesus and his disciples so much trouble in the first century. The bad mouthing and false accusations that people who claimed to worship the same God inflicted on them….Jesus told us to expect the same. (John 15:18-21)

Won’t it be interesting to see who Jesus identifies as the real heretics, come the judgment? (Matt 7:21-23)

I am grateful to say that Jehovah found me…a “lost sheep” and because of Christ's disciples‘ personal visit to my door

TRANSLATION;
watchtower came and convinced you that salvation is NOT THROUGH JESUS.
Face it, you have salvation in your watchtower, and through your watchtower organization. They have no clue as to salvation ONLY THROUGH JESUS.


No, you are not Jehovah witness.
I am
Jehovah testifies of the son. That would be the deity of Jesus, whom I worship.
Salvation through the son.
You are saved by knocking on doors....and do not know who Jesus is.

 

[Jack]

There has never been a teaching on this trinity anywhere in the Bible. The Jews never saw it anywhere in the entire Old Testament nor anyone in the New Testament ever taught it. The Catholics who invented this nonsense have used only about 8 verses that they have to piece together from statements that are scattered all over the New Testament. One should think if such nonsense was true and important that it would have been taught by someone. And it is not. Only in the minds of Catholics who cannot explain it.

Trinity discussion is banned here.